Kyler Murray entering Draft

[Ronin]

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[Jetstream Green]

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Kind of a waste for that special four year grade on Murray

 

[Dr. Jones]

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[BW52]

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LMFAO.Seriously LMFAO.Choo--choo the Murray bullsh*t hype train rolls on.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

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That is a quality post right there Doctor. Fine work sir.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Has any Murray supporters really thought about him doing what he did in college against full grown ass nfl defenses? The fastest guys he went against in college will be the slowest guy he faces in the pros. We need to build this team around our Qb no matter who it is. Build this year. Evaluate Rosen this year and if we need to make a change next year at qb so be it. Any conjecture of Murray being the greatest qb on the planet is just that...conjecture. It holds about as much water as saying Rosen is a bum.

I think you look at the tape....that's what has further convinced me that drafting Murray is a tremendously stupid idea.

He will not be able to even come close to replicating the success that he had at Oklahoma.

Just google it. Ask yourself "Will he get clean pockets like you see in his film? Will his receivers be THAT open? Will he easily run through wide open lanes on his designed runs? The answer to all those questions is NO. He won't. NFL QBs rarely get clean pockets like you see in his film. And that's why his size is important, he is going to take a lot more hits in the NFL than he did at Oklahoma. His success last year was predicated so much on Murray not even having a defender within 5 yards of him when he threw the ball to a receiver with 10 yards of separation. I'm exaggerating a bit, but just look at his film and ask yourself these questions.

Because I come to these conclusions, I think it would be an awful idea to draft him.

 

[Solar7]

Man... I don't even want to think of what this board's going to come to if Murray blows up on Sunday and Bosa disappoints Sunday...

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I think you look at the tape....that's what has further convinced me that drafting Murray is a tremendously stupid idea.

He will not be able to even come close to replicating the success that he had at Oklahoma.

Just google it. Ask yourself "Will he get clean pockets like you see in his film? Will his receivers be THAT open? Will he easily run through wide open lanes on his designed runs? The answer to all those questions is NO. He won't. NFL QBs rarely get clean pockets like you see in his film. And that's why his size is important, he is going to take a lot more hits in the NFL than he did at Oklahoma. His success last year was predicated so much on Murray not even having a defender within 5 yards of him when he threw the ball to a receiver with 10 yards of separation. I'm exaggerating a bit, but just look at his film and ask yourself these questions.

Because I come to these conclusions, I think it would be an awful idea to draft him.

So you look at a tape of him performing outstandingly, and based on what you see in that tape, come to the conclusion that he will fail miserably? Do you see any possible way that someone might construe this as unreasonable Krang?

I get that you base your idea on the fact that Murray succeeded at OU because of his supporting cast. But guess which heisman-winning QB in last year's draft was "a system QB" that succeeded "because of he had so many talented guys around him"? Mayfield is correct.

Krang, believe it or not, Mayfield had a little bit better skill position supporting cast than Murray did. A better running game (with Rodney Anderson, who was injured very early in 2018) and a better TE option with Mark Andrews. Mayfield's oline also had the mauler left tackle Orlando Brown, although overall the 2018 oline might have been slightly better (slightly!).

But yet Mayfield far exceeded expectations in CLE, despite being subject to the same circumstances that you state will make Murray a sure-fire failure.

No. I disagree with your premise here sir.

Like TJ, you should stick to your argument that the Cards should stand pat with Rosen, and draft a defensive corner-piece. You both start getting into trouble when you get away from that script. Mayfield is like a built in rebuttal to every other argument you guys can throw out there.

 

[cardncubfan]

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2019...az-arizona-cardinals-kyler-murray-josh-rosen/

 

[Dr. Jones]

I understand that Murray has warts. All prospects have something you can pick apart if you really want to.

What I don’t get are all of the dinosaur level takes being displayed by many posters here. Stone Age level thinking IMO.

It reminds me of all of the Ayton talk before the draft. No one is willing to let go of the fact that a dominant ball handler with transcendent skills is the future of the sport. Not a Center with the offensive game of David Robinson combined with kindergarten level defensive skills.

The Cardinals will probably make as stupid a decision as the Suns made by when they took Ayton. Oden level stupidity. People may defend Ayton over Doncic.... but it will always be a dark cloud hanging over talking stick arena IMO.

Kyler is the future. Luka is the future. Rosen May be good.... may be ok...... But I don’t think anyone thinks he is going to be the second coming of Tom Brady. His ceiling is possibly as a top 10 to top 8 QB in the league.

Kyler with KK could literally change the way the game is played at the position. WTF are you guys thinking? Over one freaking inch? 1.5 inches at most? Go look at a ruler and think about how preposterous that sounds. Especially when you factor in all of the rule changes that favor QBs in this game.

I feel like Iverson talking about practice.


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[DVontel]

Can this get locked the second Roger Goodell announces Bosa as the pick pls.

 

[Solar7]

I understand that Murray has warts. All prospects have something you can pick apart if you really want to.

What I don’t get are all of the dinosaur level takes being displayed by many posters here. Stone Age level thinking IMO.

It reminds me of all of the Ayton talk before the draft. No one is willing to let go of the fact that a dominant ball handler with transcendent skills is the future of the sport. Not a Center with the offensive game of David Robinson combined with kindergarten level defensive skills.

The Cardinals will probably make as stupid a decision as the Suns made by when they took Ayton. Oden level stupidity. People may defend Ayton over Doncic.... but it will always be a dark cloud hanging over talking stick arena IMO.

Kyler is the future. Luka is the future. Rosen May be good.... may be ok...... But I don’t think anyone thinks he is going to be the second coming of Tom Brady. His ceiling is possibly as a top 10 to top 8 QB in the league.

Kyler with KK could literally change the way the game is played at the position. WTF are you guys thinking? Over one freaking inch? 1.5 inches at most? Go look at a ruler and think about how preposterous that sounds. Especially when you factor in all of the rule changes that favor QBs in this game.

I feel like Iverson talking about practice.


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"Kyler is the future."

The future of what, exactly? Vick was the future, RG3 was the future, you still need to be tall enough to see around the linemen, strong enough to hold up when being hit, and big enough hands to grip the ball.

Rosen isn't Tom Brady? Well, probably not, since he's the greatest of all time, but even Tom Brady wasn't "Tom Brady" until a decent amount into his career. You're judging a top 10 overall pick like he's a 4th round scrub we were forced into starting that has never shown a thing.

We have exactly zero evidence to show that a QB of Murray's stature has ever succeeded in the sport. We have way more evidence to show that tiny, running quarterbacks that win the Heisman flame out in the NFL. And then at least evidence that QBs of Rosen's pedigree, height, and natural throwing ability have succeeded.

It's not "one inch." Or 1.5 inches. If we were arguing he was 6'1 instead of 6'3, sure, but no - he is an inch or two shorter than the only two examples of good quarterback play we can come up with. Brees and Wilson are extraordinary exceptions, not the norm that we're slightly deviating from.

 

[slanidrac16]

I understand that Murray has warts. All prospects have something you can pick apart if you really want to.

What I don’t get are all of the dinosaur level takes being displayed by many posters here. Stone Age level thinking IMO.

It reminds me of all of the Ayton talk before the draft. No one is willing to let go of the fact that a dominant ball handler with transcendent skills is the future of the sport. Not a Center with the offensive game of David Robinson combined with kindergarten level defensive skills.

The Cardinals will probably make as stupid a decision as the Suns made by when they took Ayton. Oden level stupidity. People may defend Ayton over Doncic.... but it will always be a dark cloud hanging over talking stick arena IMO.

Kyler is the future. Luka is the future. Rosen May be good.... may be ok...... But I don’t think anyone thinks he is going to be the second coming of Tom Brady. His ceiling is possibly as a top 10 to top 8 QB in the league.

Kyler with KK could literally change the way the game is played at the position. WTF are you guys thinking? Over one freaking inch? 1.5 inches at most? Go look at a ruler and think about how preposterous that sounds. Especially when you factor in all of the rule changes that favor QBs in this game.

I feel like Iverson talking about practice.


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The league would be full of stars based on what they did in college. As passionate as you are about Murray you still have to remember he will be attempting to do what he did in college against grown men and nfl defenses. The fastest defender he faced in college will now be all 11 guys. I love your passion but you’re making this kid out to be a god. If all nfl personnel thought like you the cards would be receiving offers from 31 other teams for our first pick. Personally I’m worried this kid has got a runner mentality. He did it in college and instinctively he will lean that way when hurried. How is he going to hold up when Arron Donald or JJ Watt blindsides him? He had a very clean pocket most of the time playing against a lot of so-so defenses. Not a slam dunk by any means.

 

[BW52]

I understand that Murray has warts. All prospects have something you can pick apart if you really want to.

What I don’t get are all of the dinosaur level takes being displayed by many posters here. Stone Age level thinking IMO.

It reminds me of all of the Ayton talk before the draft. No one is willing to let go of the fact that a dominant ball handler with transcendent skills is the future of the sport. Not a Center with the offensive game of David Robinson combined with kindergarten level defensive skills.

The Cardinals will probably make as stupid a decision as the Suns made by when they took Ayton. Oden level stupidity. People may defend Ayton over Doncic.... but it will always be a dark cloud hanging over talking stick arena IMO.

Kyler is the future. Luka is the future. Rosen May be good.... may be ok...... But I don’t think anyone thinks he is going to be the second coming of Tom Brady. His ceiling is possibly as a top 10 to top 8 QB in the league.

Kyler with KK could literally change the way the game is played at the position. WTF are you guys thinking? Over one freaking inch? 1.5 inches at most? Go look at a ruler and think about how preposterous that sounds. Especially when you factor in all of the rule changes that favor QBs in this game.

I feel like Iverson talking about practice.






Nonsense and hype.Dinosaur thinking because many refuse to buy into the hype that this short QB is going to revolutionize the NFL?WTF are you smoking?

 

[slanidrac16]

Man... I don't even want to think of what this board's going to come to if Murray blows up on Sunday and Bosa disappoints Sunday...

Amen. And he will. But the don’t play football in shorts and t- shirts. I’m surprised nobody has brought up him being a running back or a tyrell hill type receiver.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I understand that Murray has warts. All prospects have something you can pick apart if you really want to.

What I don’t get are all of the dinosaur level takes being displayed by many posters here. Stone Age level thinking IMO.

It reminds me of all of the Ayton talk before the draft. No one is willing to let go of the fact that a dominant ball handler with transcendent skills is the future of the sport. Not a Center with the offensive game of David Robinson combined with kindergarten level defensive skills.

The Cardinals will probably make as stupid a decision as the Suns made by when they took Ayton. Oden level stupidity. People may defend Ayton over Doncic.... but it will always be a dark cloud hanging over talking stick arena IMO.

Kyler is the future. Luka is the future. Rosen May be good.... may be ok...... But I don’t think anyone thinks he is going to be the second coming of Tom Brady. His ceiling is possibly as a top 10 to top 8 QB in the league.

Kyler with KK could literally change the way the game is played at the position. WTF are you guys thinking? Over one freaking inch? 1.5 inches at most? Go look at a ruler and think about how preposterous that sounds. Especially when you factor in all of the rule changes that favor QBs in this game.

I feel like Iverson talking about practice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hyperbole much?

 

[Krangodnzr]

So you look at a tape of him performing outstandingly, and based on what you see in that tape, come to the conclusion that he will fail miserably? Do you see any possible way that someone might construe this as unreasonable Krang?

I get that you base your idea on the fact that Murray succeeded at OU because of his supporting cast. But guess which heisman-winning QB in last year's draft was "a system QB" that succeeded "because of he had so many talented guys around him"? Mayfield is correct.

Krang, believe it or not, Mayfield had a little bit better skill position supporting cast than Murray did. A better running game (with Rodney Anderson, who was injured very early in 2018) and a better TE option with Mark Andrews. Mayfield's oline also had the mauler left tackle Orlando Brown, although overall the 2018 oline might have been slightly better (slightly!).

But yet Mayfield far exceeded expectations in CLE, despite being subject to the same circumstances that you state will make Murray a sure-fire failure.

No. I disagree with your premise here sir.

Like TJ, you should stick to your argument that the Cards should stand pat with Rosen, and draft a defensive corner-piece. You both start getting into trouble when you get away from that script. Mayfield is like a built in rebuttal to every other argument you guys can throw out there.

You totally missed my point. Kyler Murray had all day to throw the ball. All day. Clean jersey. Wide open receivers that would make John Skelton look good.

He will not have that supporting cast with the Cardinals. Hell Josh Rosen didn't have that supporting cast at UCLA...

 

[RON_IN_OC]

You totally missed my point. Kyler Murray had all day to throw the ball. All day. Clean jersey. Wide open receivers that would make John Skelton look good.

He will not have that supporting cast with the Cardinals. Hell Josh Rosen didn't have that supporting cast at UCLA...

In addition to talent level, the coaching at OU was much better than Rosen had at UCLA...Nobody is ever going to accuse Mora of running an innovative or wide open offense.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Hyperbole much?

Sure..... I guess I am guilty of it.

My point still remains. A lot of myopic thinking in this thread relating to status quo in the NFL. I'm looking at what COULD be possible. What the QB position is EVOLVING into.

Call it the "shoot for the moon" theory if you will. If we went outside the box with our coaching hire, why get back in the box with our QB.

He's short: 5 batted balls in 2019 even though 84% of his passes came from within the pocket.
Hand size: I wonder about this also but continue to go back to his tape. Almost 70% comp percentage with an air yards above 11. Almost 52% adj comp percentage on deep throws.

Practice?!?!?! You talking about PRACTICE?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Sure..... I guess I am guilty of it.

My point still remains. A lot of myopic thinking in this thread relating to status quo in the NFL. I'm looking at what COULD be possible. What the QB position is EVOLVING into.

Call it the "shoot for the moon" theory if you will. If we went outside the box with our coaching hire, why get back in the box with our QB.

He's short: 5 batted balls in 2019 even though 84% of his passes came from within the pocket.
Hand size: I wonder about this also but continue to go back to his tape. Almost 70% comp percentage with an air yards above 11. Almost 52% adj comp percentage on deep throws.

Practice?!?!?! You talking about PRACTICE?!?!?!?!?!

It's easy to avoid batted balls when a defender isn't even 5 yards from you.

 

[Dr. Jones]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-projecting-kyler-murrays-nfl-prospects

When it comes to projecting Murray’s NFL Potential, we here at PFF see a game-changing player at the quarterback position that can keep plays alive and change the face of an NFL franchise.

Looking at the numbers, Murray’s 2018 season jumps off the page: 42 touchdowns, 11.6 yards per attempt, 143.9 passer rating when clean and a 94.7 overall grade.

Murray had an adjusted completion percentage of 78.7% outside the pocket to go along with a 128.3 passer rating and an 8-to-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio with six big-time throws to only one turnover-worthy play. When forced to run, Murray was extremely efficient, managing 7.9 yards per attempt on the ground, with 37.7% of his total yards coming on scrambles (which led FBS quarterbacks). When plays broke down and he had to improvise, Murray was able to keep options alive and that is something that is a valued asset in the NFL with the pass-rush becoming a dominant factor in today’s game.

Seriously...... This dude was legit. Like, all time level college QB both running and passing.

 

[Dr. Jones]

It's easy to avoid batted balls when a defender isn't even 5 yards from you.

You can say the same thing about Tua @ Bama, Russel @ Wisconsin, Brees @ Purdue, and many others. The talent always rises to the top.

Be the change. Not the flock.

 

[Krangodnzr]

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How many plays is he under duress in this video? You don't think a lot of his success is the system he's in?

 

[Krangodnzr]

You can say the same thing about Tua @ Bama, Russel @ Wisconsin, Brees @ Purdue, and many others. The talent always rises to the top.

Be the change. Not the flock.

I saw Wilson and Brees under duress. And Brees was almost two decades ago...

I think YOU are part of the flock. The mass media are fawning over Murray.

 

[Dr. Jones]

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How many plays is he under duress in this video? You don't think a lot of his success is the system he's in?

No highlight reel will ever show a player under extreme duress. It's the antithesis of what a HIGHLIGHT video was made, produced, and put on this earth to show.

In his two losses last year.
vs. Texas: 304 passing. 92 rushing. 4TD's 1 INT - 214.37 passer rating

That game was a shootout though. let's look at the 33rd NFL franchise: ALABAMA in the CFB Playoffs. Big Stage - Big Audience. And he was runnig for his life on many drop backs.

vs. Bama: 308 passing. 109 rushing. 2 TD's 0 INT's - 139.11 passer rating
with scoring drives of 14, 14, and 10 plays throughout the game.

Practice? PRACTICE?!?!?!?!