Kyler Murray entering Draft

[The Kraken]

I think those are fair points. I also think it’s reasonable to say what’s the closest comparison. And what?!? We have as close to a comparison as possible? A shorter QB, who played for the same exact team in the same exact offense the very year prior? And how did he translate to the nfl? Hmm, I’m seeing some persuasive data pointing in the opposite direction of your conclusion. Is it a certainty? No. Not by a long shot. But it’s tough to argue we don’t at least have a semi-legitimate (at worst) point of comparison to look at . . .

WOW

As Cards fans I don't think we want to go down that path...Matt Leinart, same size and directly followed Carson Palmer at USC...

Baker Mayfield is legit 6'1" and 215, Murray is not 6'1" and has just recently bumped his weight up...what will the gain do for his quickness?

Too many unknowns, 5'10" - 207lbs is worrisome for a running in the NFL let alone a QB...the other issues that worries me is he has an "escape pod"...things get tough, he can easily chuck dueces and grab his bat and mitt.

And before everyone on this board starts commisioning a bust in Canton for Baker Mayfield, let's see how he does in his 2nd year...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What is the litmus for proving his doubters wrong?

For me it would be that he is unequivocally better than having both Bosa AND Rosen.

Eh with the importance of QB that could really ultimately be boiled down to, is he substantially better than Rosen. If so, it almost doesn’t matter what Bosa does.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You have to draft Murray. You just do. QB is the most important position in football. Keep both and figure it out. Trade later. You just cannot pass on a talent like this.

 

[Shane]

I think those are fair points. I also think it’s reasonable to say what’s the closest comparison. And what?!? We have as close to a comparison as possible? A shorter QB, who played for the same exact team in the same exact offense the very year prior? And how did he translate to the nfl? Hmm, I’m seeing some persuasive data pointing in the opposite direction of your conclusion. Is it a certainty? No. Not by a long shot. But it’s tough to argue we don’t at least have a semi-legitimate (at worst) point of comparison to look at . . .

BM has 3.5 years of division 1 college football experience. Murray is a one year wonder. Pretty hard to compare how their college success will translate or the NFL just because they both played at OU.

Not to mention a 3 inch height difference which could be big in the NFL.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

WOW

As Cards fans I don't think we want to go down that path...Matt Leinart, same size and directly followed Carson Palmer at USC...

Baker Mayfield is legit 6'1" and 215, Murray is not 6'1" and has just recently bumped his weight up...what will the gain do for his quickness?

Too many unknowns, 5'10" - 207lbs is worrisome for a running in the NFL let alone a QB...the other issues that worries me is he has an "escape pod"...things get tough, he can easily chuck dueces and grab his bat and mitt.

And before everyone on this board starts commisioning a bust in Canton for Baker Mayfield, let's see how he does in his 2nd year...

You don’t get the point. I’m not saying he’s mayfield. I’m saying “krang you posed a question and there’s a direct comparison in terms of facts that contradict your projection as a given.”

 

[Shane]

You have to draft Murray. You just do. QB is the most important position in football. Keep both and figure it out. Trade later. You just cannot pass on a talent like this.

Hard fail if you feel that way take Haskins the better prospect of the 2

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

BM has 3.5 years of division 1 college football experience. Murray is a one year wonder. Pretty hard to compare how their college success will translate or the NFL just because they both played at OU.

Not to mention a 3 inch height difference which could be big in the NFL.

Kranga point was Murray was only good bc he had a clean pocket and how would do in the nfl. Mayfield had the same college to pro experience. In fact the closest it could be. Can’t ignore that.

 

[BW52]

How are we to respect your POV when you seriously compare Murray to Doug Friggin Flutie??? Did you ever watch Flutie throw a football. He had to wind up & take 3 steps in order to throw it 45 yards. Look, I’m fine if we keep Rosen. I really am. But I would bet my mortgage that Murray ends up an absolute stud. He will make some team very, very good. We’ll need to trust K2 if he thinks Rosen is his guy.

I don`t give a damn if you like my POV or not.Yes I did watch Flutie throw a football.Yes Murray has a lot better ARM.I get that.I see a shorter QB who lit up a terrible defensive conference who had a offensive line that could have 3 guys drafted and will likely have to roll out to create passing lanes and will not be playing against many guys who will be selling insurance or coaching high school football when their college careers are over.I know the list of ubder 6`0 QBs who have have a lot of success in the NFL in the last 40 years is a very very short list.Flutie,Russell Wilson.Odds are a hell of a lot better that Murray will end up with a Flutie-type career instead of being a franchise QB like Russell Wilson.

 

[BW52]

It is simply amazing that the Murray minions just simply choose to think that being 5`10 will simply not be a factor in the NFL.Small frame and short...yeah that's a formula for changing the NFL.

 

[Shane]

It is simply amazing that the Murray minions just simply choose to think that being 5`10 will simply not be a factor in the NFL.Small frame and short...yeah that's a formula for changing the NFL.

And signs point to naturally being 185-190 playing weight not the inflated 207 he put on the scale today.

 

[PACardsFan]

I don`t give a damn if you like my POV or not.Yes I did watch Flutie throw a football.Yes Murray has a lot better ARM.I get that.I see a shorter QB who lit up a terrible defensive conference who had a offensive line that could have 3 guys drafted and will likely have to roll out to create passing lanes and will not be playing against many guys who will be selling insurance or coaching high school football when their college careers are over.I know the list of ubder 6`0 QBs who have have a lot of success in the NFL in the last 40 years is a very very short list.Flutie,Russell Wilson.Odds are a hell of a lot better that Murray will end up with a Flutie-type career instead of being a franchise QB like Russell Wilson.

Since when did Flutie have a successful NFL career? Not only does Murray have a stron arm, but he’s extremely accurate. That’s something that Rosen is NOT. At least not yet. I saw a special on Murray a few months back. That kid was groomed to be a QB from the time he was 5. He’s a bright kid, with an extremely high QB IQ. Call him short, call him whatever you want. Pass on him in the draft. Whatever. All I’m saying is that kid will be a great QB in the NFL. Maybe Rosen will be too, but Josh does not have the fire in his belly to be great. As horrible as Wilks was, and he was, I was taken back a bit when he said it was great to be in Cleveland with a Type A personality QB?? Not that Rosen wasn’t tough last year. He had to be. I just don’t see him a a QB that will demand greatness from the players around him.

 

[GatorAZ]

His hand size concerned me more than anything but he measured at a decent 9.5”. I always thought he was in the 200 lb range.

 

[BW52]

Since when did Flutie have a successful NFL career? Not only does Murray have a stron arm, but he’s extremely accurate. That’s something that Rosen is NOT. At least not yet. I saw a special on Murray a few months back. That kid was groomed to be a QB from the time he was 5. He’s a bright kid, with an extremely high QB IQ. Call him short, call him whatever you want. Pass on him in the draft. Whatever. All I’m saying is that kid will be a great QB in the NFL. Maybe Rosen will be too, but Josh does not have the fire in his belly to be great. As horrible as Wilks was, and he was, I was taken back a bit when he said it was great to be in Cleveland with a Type A personality QB?? Not that Rosen wasn’t tough last year. He had to be. I just don’t see him a a QB that will demand greatness from the players around him.

Fire in his belly......And Murray does? Hell Murray didn`t have the guts to decide on which sport to play until he did well last season.He mealy-mouthed around and left the Oakland As hanging out to dry after he decide to go "all in " for football.I don`t think Murray will even last as long as Flutie did.I don`t buy the hypetrain ticket or buy the 5`10 QB will be great in the NFL.If Murray was groomed to be a QB from age 5 then why did he say less than a year ago he was "all in " on a baseball career?Murray then shows his fire to be great by not participating in drills at the combine.

 

[PACardsFan]

Fire in his belly......And Murray does? Hell Murray didn`t have the guts to decide on which sport to play until he did well last season.He mealy-mouthed around and left the Oakland As hanging out to dry after he decide to go "all in " for football.I don`t think Murray will even last as long as Flutie did.I don`t buy the hypetrain ticket or buy the 5`10 QB will be great in the NFL.If Murray was groomed to be a QB from age 5 then why did he say less than a year ago he was "all in " on a baseball career?Murray then shows his fire to be great by not participating in drills at the combine.

Murray is a multi sport phenom. We’ll have to agree to disagree. Let’s see how it plays out. Rosen will never be a great QB, and you can hold me to that.

 

[Shane]

Since when did Flutie have a successful NFL career? Not only does Murray have a stron arm, but he’s extremely accurate. That’s something that Rosen is NOT. At least not yet. I saw a special on Murray a few months back. That kid was groomed to be a QB from the time he was 5. He’s a bright kid, with an extremely high QB IQ. Call him short, call him whatever you want. Pass on him in the draft. Whatever. All I’m saying is that kid will be a great QB in the NFL. Maybe Rosen will be too, but Josh does not have the fire in his belly to be great. As horrible as Wilks was, and he was, I was taken back a bit when he said it was great to be in Cleveland with a Type A personality QB?? Not that Rosen wasn’t tough last year. He had to be. I just don’t see him a a QB that will demand greatness from the players around him.

Accurate in College amounts to a hill of beans at this point...

Murray is a multi sport phenom. We’ll have to agree to disagree. Let’s see how it plays out. Rosen will never be a great QB, and you can hold me to that.

And you can hold me to Rosen having a far better career then Murray whom will be a massive flop.

 

[BigRedRage]

I’m done talking about Mugsy Murray.

Imagine a pass rush with Jones on one side and Bosa on the other.

Quinnen Williams anchoring the middle

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[POISON]

Hard fail if you feel that way take Haskins the better prospect of the 2

Lmao

 

[POISON]

Accurate in College amounts to a hill of beans at this point...


And you can hold me to Rosen having a far better career then Murray whom will be a massive flop.

Rosen will be the flop, he sucked at UCLA, and he will here. Nobody on this team will follow this entitled spoiled brat......

 

[Shane]

Rosen will be the flop, he sucked at UCLA, and he will here. Nobody on this team will follow this entitled spoiled brat......

 

[RON_IN_OC]

WOW

As Cards fans I don't think we want to go down that path...Matt Leinart, same size and directly followed Carson Palmer at USC...

Baker Mayfield is legit 6'1" and 215, Murray is not 6'1" and has just recently bumped his weight up...what will the gain do for his quickness?

Too many unknowns, 5'10" - 207lbs is worrisome for a running in the NFL let alone a QB...the other issues that worries me is he has an "escape pod"...things get tough, he can easily chuck dueces and grab his bat and mitt.

And before everyone on this board starts commisioning a bust in Canton for Baker Mayfield, let's see how he does in his 2nd year...

Speaking of Leinart...

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[cardsfanmd]

Accurate in College amounts to a hill of beans at this point...


And you can hold me to Rosen having a far better career then Murray whom will be a massive flop.

Care to make a gentleman’s wager on that one???

 

[NYCARDS]

Speaking of Leinart...

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If this what happens the the Giants make the most sense. Do the Giants part with their #1 pick in the upcoming draft for Rosen?

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think those are fair points. I also think it’s reasonable to say what’s the closest comparison. And what?!? We have as close to a comparison as possible? A shorter QB, who played for the same exact team in the same exact offense the very year prior? And how did he translate to the nfl? Hmm, I’m seeing some persuasive data pointing in the opposite direction of your conclusion. Is it a certainty? No. Not by a long shot. But it’s tough to argue we don’t at least have a semi-legitimate (at worst) point of comparison to look at . . .

BM and Murray are very different players. Mayfield is a pocket passers who scrambles a bit to set up the pass. Murray was used quite a bit on designed runs.

My question is incredibly valid. Shorter QBs have to move around to see passing lanes. It's the reason that the NFL doesn't like short QBs. When you watch Murray, you see a guy who had a very clean pocket that he won't see any where in the NFL.

And with the Cardinals it's a pretty simple argument that he will rarely see clean pockets, often facing pressure immediately. And with all of the pressure, he will take lots of hits. How long will his 190 frame take those hits? It was nearly unanimous across the football world that there is no way in hell that Murray is 207 naturally and that's why he didn't work out.

There are too many unknowns to take Murray #1. Take the damn franchise defender. You already have a potential franchise QB. This is freaking madness.

According to PFF, Bosa had the highest edge grade they have ever assigned to an edge player. He destroys the blocker across from in the run game and the pass game. He gives the Cardinals the chance to have a top 5 defense for years to come almost immediately.

I believe that the Cardinals are going to be vastly improved this year. Rosen is going to be used correctly by a good offensive mind and Nick Bosa is going to be in contention for rookie of the year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Since when did Flutie have a successful NFL career? Not only does Murray have a stron arm, but he’s extremely accurate. That’s something that Rosen is NOT. At least not yet. I saw a special on Murray a few months back. That kid was groomed to be a QB from the time he was 5. He’s a bright kid, with an extremely high QB IQ. Call him short, call him whatever you want. Pass on him in the draft. Whatever. All I’m saying is that kid will be a great QB in the NFL. Maybe Rosen will be too, but Josh does not have the fire in his belly to be great. As horrible as Wilks was, and he was, I was taken back a bit when he said it was great to be in Cleveland with a Type A personality QB?? Not that Rosen wasn’t tough last year. He had to be. I just don’t see him a a QB that will demand greatness from the players around him.

If he was groomed to be a QB since he was 5, stat the hell away from him.

So was Clausen, Barkley, Sanchez, Marinovich, and all those other SoCal QB busts.

That means most of his upside has already been exhausted.

 

[TJ]

Speaking of Leinart...

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Part of the reason we’re having this conversation is his mentally weak ass couldn’t handle competition. This would be his 14th season as our QB.

I couldn’t care less what Leinart thinks. F’ him.