Kyler Murray in 5 Years

[Solar7]

You take anyone's position and keep going to extremes.

For example: You think Wilson is the best thing ever.

Where did I say that? I said Wilson would go #1 overall if the draft was done over. That doesnt mean I think "Wilson is the best thing ever". It means I would take him over Luck.

It's a bad debate tactic and belies a weakness in your argument.

Luck is a great player, but his injury history is his undoing at the present time. He takes big hits even though he runs less than Wilson.

And even though a lot of it can be attributed to team success, Wilson has been more successful. Will this change over time? It may, especially with the current trends of the teams. I think the Colts are an up trending team while Seahawks are down trending.

It's a little hyperbole, I can be prone to it.

But from our conversations, I feel like you have Russell Wilson in the top 5 or so QBs in this league, whereas I don't. I certainly think he's good, but there's a lot more QBs that scare me than Russell. Luck's definitely one of them.

For as much as I'm prone to hyperbole, you're prone to pretty hot takes, which inspires my desire to argue, haha. I hope you know it's not personal.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It's a little hyperbole, I can be prone to it.

But from our conversations, I feel like you have Russell Wilson in the top 5 or so QBs in this league, whereas I don't. I certainly think he's good, but there's a lot more QBs that scare me than Russell. Luck's definitely one of them.

For as much as I'm prone to hyperbole, you're prone to pretty hot takes, which inspires my desire to argue, haha. I hope you know it's not personal.

It's hyperbole when you go to the extremes with your own stance. It's undermining someones argument when you do it to someone else's stance on a topic.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It's a little hyperbole, I can be prone to it.

But from our conversations, I feel like you have Russell Wilson in the top 5 or so QBs in this league, whereas I don't. I certainly think he's good, but there's a lot more QBs that scare me than Russell. Luck's definitely one of them.

For as much as I'm prone to hyperbole, you're prone to pretty hot takes, which inspires my desire to argue, haha. I hope you know it's not personal.

I think the best way to view players is a mix of their own statistics and team success.

Wilson measures up in both categories. Luck doesnt, partially because he gets hurt playing hero ball.

I used to be the biggest Wilson hater, but objective reality became to hard to ignore. I think Murray is going to be that way on this board.

 

[kerouac9]

I was an early admirer of Wilson and remain so. Krangthebrain is unhinged in saying that Wilson is somehow better than Luck IN A VACCUUM because of WINZ plus injury though.

The winz argument is dumb because Wilson benefitted from an annus mirabilus where Seattle drafted like three hall of farmers (including Wilson) plus a couple more Pro Bowlers in a single year, and picked up an All Pro RB for nothing. Wilson has benefited from a great defense that has prevented him from having to ever play hero ball until his 8th NFL season. As Cubs noted frequently in the past, Russ has thrown for 400 or more yards extremely rarely for an elite QB.

What Seattle has also done is given Russ a reliable intermediate target throughout his career to dump the ball off to so he doesn’t have to take hits.

It might not be unreasonable to say that Andrew Luck8s teams have gotten successively worse every season he’s been in the NFL. He was saddled with a bottom-five head coach every year until last year and a boob of a GM. Despite that, the Colts have never had a losing record when Luck starting for them.

Even they T.Y. Hilton argument curdles a little bit when you consider that he was basically late-period John Brown when Luck was out of the lineup.

 

[juza76]

I was an early admirer of Wilson and remain so. Krangthebrain is unhinged in saying that Wilson is somehow better than Luck IN A VACCUUM because of WINZ plus injury though.

The winz argument is dumb because Wilson benefitted from an annus mirabilus where Seattle drafted like three hall of farmers (including Wilson) plus a couple more Pro Bowlers in a single year, and picked up an All Pro RB for nothing. Wilson has benefited from a great defense that has prevented him from having to ever play hero ball until his 8th NFL season. As Cubs noted frequently in the past, Russ has thrown for 400 or more yards extremely rarely for an elite QB.

What Seattle has also done is given Russ a reliable intermediate target throughout his career to dump the ball off to so he doesn’t have to take hits.

It might not be unreasonable to say that Andrew Luck8s teams have gotten successively worse every season he’s been in the NFL. He was saddled with a bottom-five head coach every year until last year and a boob of a GM. Despite that, the Colts have never had a losing record when Luck starting for them.

Even they T.Y. Hilton argument curdles a little bit when you consider that he was basically late-period John Brown when Luck was out of the lineup.

tj hilton 2 years a go played a full season with brisset at Qb, he put almost 1000 yards

 

[Krangodnzr]

I was an early admirer of Wilson and remain so. Krangthebrain is unhinged in saying that Wilson is somehow better than Luck IN A VACCUUM because of WINZ plus injury though.

The winz argument is dumb because Wilson benefitted from an annus mirabilus where Seattle drafted like three hall of farmers (including Wilson) plus a couple more Pro Bowlers in a single year, and picked up an All Pro RB for nothing. Wilson has benefited from a great defense that has prevented him from having to ever play hero ball until his 8th NFL season. As Cubs noted frequently in the past, Russ has thrown for 400 or more yards extremely rarely for an elite QB.

What Seattle has also done is given Russ a reliable intermediate target throughout his career to dump the ball off to so he doesn’t have to take hits.

It might not be unreasonable to say that Andrew Luck8s teams have gotten successively worse every season he’s been in the NFL. He was saddled with a bottom-five head coach every year until last year and a boob of a GM. Despite that, the Colts have never had a losing record when Luck starting for them.

Even they T.Y. Hilton argument curdles a little bit when you consider that he was basically late-period John Brown when Luck was out of the lineup.

Results matter. If you cant rely on your QB to be healthy, then you cant rely on him.

Fact of the matter is the Wilson is likely already a shoe in hall of Famer and Luck isnt.

 

[Solar7]

tj hilton 2 years a go played a full season with brisset Qb, he put almost 1100 yards

You can't even spell the guy's two letter name right, and you're outright wrong. He played with Brissett in 2017 and had 966 yards, with his second lowest reception total in his career, and lowest TD output with 4.

 

[HGC]

You can't even spell the guy's two letter name right, and you're outright wrong. He played with Brissett in 2017 and had 966 yards, with his second lowest reception total in his career, and lowest TD output with 4.

Douche comment.

 

[juza76]

You can't even spell the guy's two letter name right, and you're outright wrong. He played with Brissett in 2017 and had 966 yards, with his second lowest reception total in his career, and lowest TD output with 4.

u cant even keep your words and staying away from the forum as u promised after the draft


a man who fails to keep his word is a poor man


ps) wonder how the nickname solar came from? cause it has nothing to do with you, considering the clouds in your head

 

[Solar7]

Douche comment.

...douche comment for calling him on incorrect stats? What?

I respect that English isn't Juza's first language, afaik, and that's fine, but he's not naming players right, or using their widely available stats.

u cant even keep your words and staying away from the forum as u promised after the draft
a man who fails to keep his word is a poor man


ps) wonder how the nickname solar came from? cause it has nothing to do with you, considering the clouds in your head

I already backed off from that one. Don't get defensive or insulting for no reason.

 

[kerouac9]

tj hilton 2 years a go played a full season with brisset Qb, he put almost 1100 yards

This is not correct. Hilton went from leading the NFL in receiving yards with Luck to getting 944 with a replacement level QB.

Results matter. If you cant rely on your QB to be healthy, then you cant rely on him.

Fact of the matter is the Wilson is likely already a shoe in hall of Famer and Luck isnt.

So is Eli Manning, but I wouldn’t take Luck over him, either. Do you really think that if they situations were reversed, Luck wouldn’t meet or exceed what Wilson has done? I think Wilson would’ve been much more challenged in the mess in Indy.

 

[DVontel]

I was an early admirer of Wilson and remain so. Krangthebrain is unhinged in saying that Wilson is somehow better than Luck IN A VACCUUM because of WINZ plus injury though.

The winz argument is dumb because Wilson benefitted from an annus mirabilus where Seattle drafted like three hall of farmers (including Wilson) plus a couple more Pro Bowlers in a single year, and picked up an All Pro RB for nothing. Wilson has benefited from a great defense that has prevented him from having to ever play hero ball until his 8th NFL season. As Cubs noted frequently in the past, Russ has thrown for 400 or more yards extremely rarely for an elite QB.

What Seattle has also done is given Russ a reliable intermediate target throughout his career to dump the ball off to so he doesn’t have to take hits.

It might not be unreasonable to say that Andrew Luck8s teams have gotten successively worse every season he’s been in the NFL. He was saddled with a bottom-five head coach every year until last year and a boob of a GM. Despite that, the Colts have never had a losing record when Luck starting for them.

Even they T.Y. Hilton argument curdles a little bit when you consider that he was basically late-period John Brown when Luck was out of the lineup.

Yea, I usually agree with Krang, but this is 100% spot on.

 

[Solar7]

I do also want to apologize to @juza76 - I'm sorry if that didn't translate well. I didn't mean any harm.

 

[juza76]

...douche comment for calling him on incorrect stats? What?

I respect that English isn't Juza's first language, afaik, and that's fine, but he's not naming players right, or using their widely available stats.



I already backed off from that one. Don't get defensive or insulting for no reason.

afaik...




many here misspelling names and u went hard on me just cause i misspelled Brissett name with Brisset?

 

[juza76]

I do also want to apologize to @juza76 - I'm sorry if that didn't translate well. I didn't mean any harm.

its ok, all is fine, sometimes can happen

 

[Solar7]

afaik...




many here misspelling names and u went hard on me just cause i misspelled Brissett name with Brisset?

No, it was about T.Y. Hilton, who you have kept calling TJ Hilton...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's hyperbole when you go to the extremes with your own stance. It's undermining someones argument when you do it to someone else's stance on a topic.

Really what it is, is putting words in another’s mouth. It’s the worst kind of arguing because it causes your opponent to have to back the argument up to re-establish what the argument is actually based upon rather than furthering the argument with new points to discuss.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This is not correct. Hilton went from leading the NFL in receiving yards with Luck to getting 944 with a replacement level QB.



So is Eli Manning, but I wouldn’t take Luck over him, either. Do you really think that if they situations were reversed, Luck wouldn’t meet or exceed what Wilson has done? I think Wilson would’ve been much more challenged in the mess in Indy.

Who knows. You cant just snap your fingers and change players around.

Wilson not only has won more, but he also has a substantially higher QB rating as well.

I think its hilarious you also point out players injury histories when it suits your argument but ignore Luck's. Missing over a season and a half.

And comparing Wilson to Eli? Ok Kerouac. That's just dumb. Do you really want to open that can of worms?

 

[slanidrac16]

Now this is hilarious .

It’s a kyler Murray thread that has been turned into a Wilson/Luck debate.

Don’t see that much around here these days!