Kyler Murray in 5 Years

[sdscard4]

In all actuality seems the shorter qbs do just fine. I've seen lots of taller busts in this league.

 

[NJCardFan]

The Colts went from last in the league to a playoff team on the back of Andrew Luck. It was scary what happened to him, but Luck's return this year once again changed that franchise. Right now, that team has as good of a shot as any on account of how great of a QB Luck is.

They were a 10 win playoff team the year before that. The Colts obviously tanked in 2011. Had Manning not had neck issues do you honestly believe they would have been a 2 win team in 2011?



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[Cardsfaninlouky]

In five years, it’s most likely that Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers and Rivers are gone. I can see him being up there with Mahomes, Wilson, Luck and Watson.

I can also but in 5 yrs RW could be sort of an aged veteran. Not sure how old he is now but I would think at least 29?

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Ask and ye shall receive.

Average starter. Very similar to Marcus Mariota.

At that point, I think there's a solid chance he decides not to sign with another team, and moves on to baseball.

He's ours now & what we have to pin our hopes on. There's busts in the league all the time from the QB position, tall & short. The one knock on him is his height & also getting hurt from a rather large defensive player, that can happen to any player regardless of size. Let's all hope that his college performances translate into the NFL & he lights the league up. He proved at the very least he knows how to throw over & around bigger defensive players, in college anyways. Watching his film, I do love the fact he played baseball, that taught him to throw from many different arm angles which he will definitely need.

 

[Solar7]

He's ours now & what we have to pin our hopes on. There's busts in the league all the time from the QB position, tall & short. The one knock on him is his height & also getting hurt from a rather large defensive player, that can happen to any player regardless of size. Let's all hope that his college performances translate into the NFL & he lights the league up. He proved at the very least he knows how to throw over & around bigger defensive players, in college anyways. Watching his film, I do love the fact he played baseball, that taught him to throw from many different arm angles which he will definitely need.

Dude, I completely get he's all we've got and I just have to live with it. I'll still be rooting for my team. But just because of that, I'm not going to suddenly pretend he's something I don't think he is. He has other knocks besides being short, but you can see my posts in a million other threads.

Like, I'm a huge comic book fan, but when I saw the production issues with Justice League, and saw the trailers, I thought "gee, this is going to be really bad." And when it was bad, I didn't just start calling it good because it was the only Justice League movie I was going to ever get.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I voted top 10, but trending top five near the end of the five year period.

Why do I think this will happen? Because Murray is driven. When a player has elite talent and drive, greatness will be a by product.

On Gambo and Burns, they were talking about how Murray seems to have eyes in the back of his head. His instincts are amazing.

 

[Krangodnzr]

48 votes for at least Pro Bowl as of right now.

It's funny how so many of you think this but didnt want to draft him.

 

[Solar7]

48 votes for at least Pro Bowl as of right now.

It's funny how so many of you think this but didnt want to draft him.

To their credit, even I think Kyler has a chance at being a Pro Bowl QB. I mean, Mitch Trubisky played in it last year. Wouldn't shock me to see the kid get an alternate vote or something at some point.

Obviously I'm way more down on him than that, but still.

 

[Krangodnzr]

To their credit, even I think Kyler has a chance at being a Pro Bowl QB. I mean, Mitch Trubisky played in it last year. Wouldn't shock me to see the kid get an alternate vote or something at some point.

Obviously I'm way more down on him than that, but still.

And at no time in his life has Mitch Trubisky even approached Kyler's talent.

You are going to be epically wrong about this.

 

[kerouac9]

I don’t understand the boom or bust talk. Why isn’t Murray a safe bet to at least be average? Just because he’s 5’10”?

Jamarcus Russell is 6’6” and is considered one of biggest busts in the history of the league.

With Murray’s abilities, throwing, rushing, and extending plays with his legs, I see him as a pretty safe prospect with huge upside.

Mike Vick wasn’t nearly as good of a passer as Murray coming out, but he was an average/above average QB most of his career. Why can’t Murray’s floor at least be Mike Vick?

*Interesting note about Vick, before his junior season at VT, he was drafted in the 30th round by the Rockies despite not playing baseball since 8th grade.

I don’t see it that way. I feel like there were big swings with Vick. He was either a transformational QB or he was a guy who was a backup. He never had a period where he was, like, Alex Smith.

And I think Mike Vick is viewed as a disappointment without the dogfighting. He’d already killed two coaches.

So you have Vick, RG3, and Colin Kaepernick who exploded onto the scene and couldn’t mature into complete QBs. Maybe add Dak Prescott into this category. Then you have Russell’s Wilson, who has.

They were a 10 win playoff team the year before that. The Colts obviously tanked in 2011. Had Manning not had neck issues do you honestly believe they would have been a 2 win team in 2011?



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I dunno. You put a HoF QB on most teams and they’re going to be pretty good. That Colts team was a machine, and Peyton was the engine.

The better question is whether Matt Cassell could’ve taken that team anywhere.

 

[Solar7]

And at no time in his life has Mitch Trubisky even approached Kyler's talent.

You are going to be epically wrong about this.

We'll see man, we'll see. This was an epically unique situation, and I hope you're prepared to see the "it can get worse" side of things. I hope I'm wrong. I have no interest in watching another season of worthless football. But outside of this board, I pretty much only hear bad things about the Cards.

 

[Solar7]

I don’t understand the boom or bust talk. Why isn’t Murray a safe bet to at least be average? Just because he’s 5’10”?

Jamarcus Russell is 6’6” and is considered one of biggest busts in the history of the league.

With Murray’s abilities, throwing, rushing, and extending plays with his legs, I see him as a pretty safe prospect with huge upside.

Mike Vick wasn’t nearly as good of a passer as Murray coming out, but he was an average/above average QB most of his career. Why can’t Murray’s floor at least be Mike Vick?

*Interesting note about Vick, before his junior season at VT, he was drafted in the 30th round by the Rockies despite not playing baseball since 8th grade.

I meant to reply to this earlier... but K9 said most of what I needed to say about the comp to Vick. The thing I really need to point out, which keeps getting overlooked, is that there's a sweet spot for height in the NFL at the QB position. Most guys that are 6'5+ don't succeed, just like most guys sub 6'0 don't succeed. No one is saying the taller the better. 6'2-6'4 seems to be about where you want to be.

Back to K9's thoughts, or yours about Vick... Vick didn't do much of anything. If Kyler wins us two playoff games and then is on another team or in another sport, that's a failure in my eyes. For the investment we've made in this kid, the sheer risk of it all, he'd better quickly ascend to one of the top spots in the NFL, with the wins and year-in-year-out championship potential to back it up. And no full seasons lost due to breaking a leg while running, either.

I'm mostly mad about it because this kid is gonna get a super long leash that prevents us from making changes at the position, all while we're not a very talented team.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

Interesting

I don’t understand the boom or bust talk. Why isn’t Murray a safe bet to at least be average? Just because he’s 5’10”?

Jamarcus Russell is 6’6” and is considered one of biggest busts in the history of the league.

With Murray’s abilities, throwing, rushing, and extending plays with his legs, I see him as a pretty safe prospect with huge upside.

Mike Vick wasn’t nearly as good of a passer as Murray coming out, but he was an average/above average QB most of his career. Why can’t Murray’s floor at least be Mike Vick?

*Interesting note about Vick, before his junior season at VT, he was drafted in the 30th round by the Rockies despite not playing baseball since 8th grade.

Jamarcus was brought up as I'm sure Oakland would live to have that selection back So would San Diego with the Ryan Leaf selection as would a whole bunch of other teams.
It just seems the Cards are snake bitten with any selection they make especially in the QB market

 

[NJCardFan]

I dunno. You put a HoF QB on most teams and they’re going to be pretty good. That Colts team was a machine, and Peyton was the engine.

The better question is whether Matt Cassell could’ve taken that team anywhere.

Colts didn't even try that year. Their QB's were Dan Olovsky, Curtis Painter, and an over the hill Kerry Collins. Hey, it worked out for them. They took a risk and it's paid off for the most part.

The one thing being overlooked is that Murray only had 1 season as a starter in college. And, yes, he played well. Same with Trubisky. So in reality we really don't know what we have in this kid.

 

[BW52]

Don’t forget Shane and bw52

Journeyman backup or trying to play OF for Oakland A`s.Hell yes I hate the pick and detest it more every day.

 

[Solar7]

Colts didn't even try that year. Their QB's were Dan Olovsky, Curtis Painter, and an over the hill Kerry Collins. Hey, it worked out for them. They took a risk and it's paid off for the most part.

The one thing being overlooked is that Murray only had 1 season as a starter in college. And, yes, he played well. Same with Trubisky. So in reality we really don't know what we have in this kid.

What was that team supposed to do? Trade for an elite QB? I'm not saying they pulled out all the stops to be the best team in the league that year, but the notion that they just walked out to the team and said "hey we're tanking for Luck now" is absurd. Remember, they had just franchised Peyton that offseason, and gave him a new 5-year, 90 million dollar contract... plus they didn't even place the guy on IR for a large chunk of the season. They thought he was playing.

That's not tanking to me.

 

[kerouac9]

I meant to reply to this earlier... but K9 said most of what I needed to say about the comp to Vick. The thing I really need to point out, which keeps getting overlooked, is that there's a sweet spot for height in the NFL at the QB position. Most guys that are 6'5+ don't succeed, just like most guys sub 6'0 don't succeed. No one is saying the taller the better. 6'2-6'4 seems to be about where you want to be.

Back to K9's thoughts, or yours about Vick... Vick didn't do much of anything. If Kyler wins us two playoff games and then is on another team or in another sport, that's a failure in my eyes. For the investment we've made in this kid, the sheer risk of it all, he'd better quickly ascend to one of the top spots in the NFL, with the wins and year-in-year-out championship potential to back it up. And no full seasons lost due to breaking a leg while running, either.

I'm mostly mad about it because this kid is gonna get a super long leash that prevents us from making changes at the position, all while we're not a very talented team.

Gah. I really disagree with this. Vick was transcendent in his first few years in the NFL. His second season felt like he could legitimately remake the NFL and no one could touch him. He was the first QB to beat Farve in Lambeau when the temps were below freezing.

Vick was left-handed, could run like the wind, and had an absolute howitzer on his shoulder. The question was how to harness that raw material into a professional QB for the long term, and the NFL wasn't really ready for it. The best/only idea that people had was to give him a former 49ers coach and talk about Steve Young.

He laid the foundation for how Shanahan integrated RG3 into the pro game, and how guys like Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes are installed. Now, part of the reason that he was a disappointment was because he probably didn't do all the work he could've done to advocate for himself and get the offense off the ground.

Colts didn't even try that year. Their QB's were Dan Olovsky, Curtis Painter, and an over the hill Kerry Collins. Hey, it worked out for them. They took a risk and it's paid off for the most part.

The one thing being overlooked is that Murray only had 1 season as a starter in college. And, yes, he played well. Same with Trubisky. So in reality we really don't know what we have in this kid.

So... wait. Are you saying that the Colts were ACTUALLY GOOD, but they just didn't try in 2011? I think we can all agree that Curtis Painter is bad, but that team was built around Manning's unique talents, and when you replace him with a replacement-level QB (like Orlovsky) then you're going to win 5 games.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Both Mariota and Winston were considered huge gambles when they came out. Mariota was playing in a gimmick offense in a league that doesn't play defense; Winston loved throwing the ball to the other team.

Andrew Luck was the last consensus top prospect at QB in the draft. Eli Manning was probably the last one before that.

Find me five articles with the phrase “huge gamble” for Winston predraft. That’s just complete revisionist history if not a total lie. You’re better than that k9. Winston was a consensus #1 pick. His only knock was his maturity which every single team would’ve been willing to overlook with the opportunity to draft him.

I never said a word about Mariota but now that you brought him up, there were very few comments to the negative in him too. He was certainly not viewed as a “huge gamble.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We'll see man, we'll see. This was an epically unique situation, and I hope you're prepared to see the "it can get worse" side of things. I hope I'm wrong. I have no interest in watching another season of worthless football. But outside of this board, I pretty much only hear bad things about the Cards.

That must be from people you talk to because almost every publication I’ve read people are really positive about the direction of the cardinals.

 

[Solar7]

Gah. I really disagree with this. Vick was transcendent in his first few years in the NFL. His second season felt like he could legitimately remake the NFL and no one could touch him. He was the first QB to beat Farve in Lambeau when the temps were below freezing.

Vick was left-handed, could run like the wind, and had an absolute howitzer on his shoulder. The question was how to harness that raw material into a professional QB for the long term, and the NFL wasn't really ready for it. The best/only idea that people had was to give him a former 49ers coach and talk about Steve Young.

He laid the foundation for how Shanahan integrated RG3 into the pro game, and how guys like Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes are installed. Now, part of the reason that he was a disappointment was because he probably didn't do all the work he could've done to advocate for himself and get the offense off the ground.



So... wait. Are you saying that the Colts were ACTUALLY GOOD, but they just didn't try in 2011? I think we can all agree that Curtis Painter is bad, but that team was built around Manning's unique talents, and when you replace him with a replacement-level QB (like Orlovsky) then you're going to win 5 games.

I mean, trust me, I was tantalized by Vick at the time. The year you're talking about was really special, and I remember the time he split those Vikings defenders in OT - a moment in time where my dad looked at each other and both admitted he was the future of the NFL.

But the overall story, the history of how things panned out, shows a huge cautionary tale. He really only won 9 games in that first full season, he cost Dan Reeves his job, he cost Jim Mora his job (although not really a great coach). The highlights were spectacular, but the reality was that only one year did it actually come together in a meaningful way, and even that was only an 11 win season. The guy just plainly didn't turn them into a dominant team, despite being pretty fun to watch.

Murray's tenure here will be pretty unspectacular if he has a total of two winning seasons.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Interesting

Jamarcus was brought up as I'm sure Oakland would live to have that selection back So would San Diego with the Ryan Leaf selection as would a whole bunch of other teams.
It just seems the Cards are snake bitten with any selection they make especially in the QB market

Jamarcus Russell is NOTHING like Murray. Nothing. They are both black and that's it.

Russell's issue is that he was ghetto. He did drugs.

 

[kerouac9]

Find me five articles with the phrase “huge gamble” for Winston predraft. That’s just complete revisionist history if not a total lie. You’re better than that k9. Winston was a consensus #1 pick. His only knock was his maturity which every single team would’ve been willing to overlook with the opportunity to draft him.

I never said a word about Mariota but now that you brought him up, there were very few comments to the negative in him too. He was certainly not viewed as a “huge gamble.”

Winston was a consensus #1 pick because the Bucs had made it clear they were taking a QB and it came down to those two guys. Von Miller could've (and probably should've, even though I was skeptical about his size) been the #1 overall selection, and Patrick Peterson was in the mix as well.

I put Winston in the same class as a prospect as Jared Goff — best quarterback in the class, and so taken #1 overall, but he doesn't stack up as a prospect to Eli and Andrew Luck (or Michael Vick).

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2015/s...nston-biggest-gamble-modern-nfl-draft-history

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ng-winston-in-nfl-draft-idUSKBN0NK2BK20150430

The central Florida team’s apparent willingness to gamble on Winston as the next face of the Buccaneers franchise is drawing measured concern from local women’s advocates after a year in which the league has faced wide criticism for its handling of off-the-field violence by players.

https://deadspin.com/nfl-exec-drafting-jameis-winston-will-be-a-horrible-m-1700023804

We emerge with some anonymous quantification of what everyone’s generally believed all winter: that this isn’t a great draft for QBs, but the top two have enough potential that desperate teams probably can’t afford to pass on them.

https://nflmocks.com/2014/10/20/2015-nfl-draft-will-take-jameis-winston-plunge/

https://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2015profiles/Jameis.Winston.htm

 

[Krangodnzr]

Find me five articles with the phrase “huge gamble” for Winston predraft. That’s just complete revisionist history if not a total lie. You’re better than that k9. Winston was a consensus #1 pick. His only knock was his maturity which every single team would’ve been willing to overlook with the opportunity to draft him.

I never said a word about Mariota but now that you brought him up, there were very few comments to the negative in him too. He was certainly not viewed as a “huge gamble.”

Yeah I don't see where he is getting the "huge gamble" idea. Winston and Mariota were both viewed as potential franchise guys with some questions whether that would come to fruition.

I don't think Tampa nor Tennessee would take back those picks even knowing what they know now.

 

[Solar7]

That must be from people you talk to because almost every publication I’ve read people are really positive about the direction of the cardinals.

ESPN Power Rankings: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-rankings-projected-wins-playoff-chances-1-32
Second to last.

Cardinals projected winless season: https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/22/nfl-win-loss-predictions-az-arizona-cardinals-winless/

Here's a great compilation of bad press: https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2...the-expectations-for-the-cardinals-be-in-2019

Sure, I've seen that we'll have the "most impactful" rookie class, but that's because we're such a bad team that there's guys into the 5th round that might see significant playing time for us.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Winston was a consensus #1 pick because the Bucs had made it clear they were taking a QB and it came down to those two guys. Von Miller could've (and probably should've, even though I was skeptical about his size) been the #1 overall selection, and Patrick Peterson was in the mix as well.

I put Winston in the same class as a prospect as Jared Goff — best quarterback in the class, and so taken #1 overall, but he doesn't stack up as a prospect to Eli and Andrew Luck (or Michael Vick).

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2015/s...nston-biggest-gamble-modern-nfl-draft-history

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ng-winston-in-nfl-draft-idUSKBN0NK2BK20150430



https://deadspin.com/nfl-exec-drafting-jameis-winston-will-be-a-horrible-m-1700023804



https://nflmocks.com/2014/10/20/2015-nfl-draft-will-take-jameis-winston-plunge/

https://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2015profiles/Jameis.Winston.htm

Peterson and Miller were in a different class than Winston....they were in Cam Newton's class.