Kyler Murray To the Deep End of the Pool

[slanidrac16]

Cmon Solar. I love ya man but If reports on Murray were less than flattering you would be all over this board with the I told you so’s and not downplaying it.

 

[JeffGollin]

The debate narrows to "Does Murray, Rosen or Bosa receive the best media comments."

(Yawn).

 

[Solar7]

Cmon Solar. I love ya man but If reports on Murray were less than flattering you would be all over this board with the I told you so’s and not downplaying it.

I would be, but I don't think they would exist unless he was terrible. And I don't think he will be, just middling. Not worth what we gave up for all of this, essentially.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I would be, but I don't think they would exist unless he was terrible. And I don't think he will be, just middling. Not worth what we gave up for all of this, essentially.

The microscope is on Murray right now because of all the hype. If he was even slightly struggling we would be hearing about it without a doubt.

 

[Solar7]

The microscope is on Murray right now because of all the hype. If he was even slightly struggling we would be hearing about it without a doubt.

I disagree. It's too easy to look good in shorts, and media hasn't had a ton of availability. We're just hearing what we hear from the players for the most part, and they're not going to throw him under the bus.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I disagree. It's too easy to look good in shorts, and media hasn't had a ton of availability. We're just hearing what we hear from the players for the most part, and they're not going to throw him under the bus.

The media HAS had availability. They just arent allowed to report on anything past the first 20 mins.

They unanimously have said Murray has looked great, but with the caveat that this is shorts football.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Darren Urban on the Underground podcast mentioned that he wanted Bosa, was reluctant about this new path, and is now much more confident that Kyler will be successful.

All of this is based on the additional access the media gets above and beyond the first 20 minutes.

And Urban is a skeptic through and through.

 

[slanidrac16]

What I’m most encouraged about are things like how the ball comes out of his hand. How he has control of the huddle. How he knows the offense better than anybody else and how he had been with the media. I don’t care if you’re in shorts. Those are tangibles you can see now.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Good article. We'll see where things go. I definitely appreciate that he's cognizant of the potential failure but isn't obsessing over it.

I am personally not going to entirely fault Murray and we come out to 8 straight losses or something. The kid is going to really have a tough time, so is KK. Now, I will be pointing the finger at Keim and probably exclaiming the sky is falling, haha. But I don't want to place blame on Kyler for anything in a situation I'd sure as hell not want to be in. (Well, maybe, that's a lot of $$.)

Why all the pessimism? We're gonna come out of the gate scoring points & light the league up damnit lol.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Darren Urban on the Underground podcast mentioned that he wanted Bosa, was reluctant about this new path, and is now much more confident that Kyler will be successful.

All of this is based on the additional access the media gets above and beyond the first 20 minutes.

And Urban is a skeptic through and through.

I've noticed his skepticism also in his "mailbag" responses to fans questions on my Cardinals mobile app.

 

[Solar7]

Why all the pessimism? We're gonna come out of the gate scoring points & light the league up damnit lol.

I just want to be realistic. I do like that we're hearing all of the right things so far, but even most of the best QBs in NFL history haven't come out of the gate like Cam Newton did. If Kyler comes out and matches or beats that performance, I'll buy a Kyler t-shirt.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I just want to be realistic. I do like that we're hearing all of the right things so far, but even most of the best QBs in NFL history haven't come out of the gate like Cam Newton did. If Kyler comes out and matches or beats that performance, I'll buy a Kyler t-shirt.

One thing that you keep saying (not in this post, but elsewhere) is that you think Murray is going to be "middling".

Jay Glazer talked about Murray on his recent mailbag on The Athletic. Murray is either going to take the league by storm or be a bust.

Why is that? He just has too many nearly unique talents, but also the height detriment.

His arm strength is near the top in the NFL. His release is already compared to Dan Marino. He is the fastest QB in the NFL. And he has a unique mastery of the offense he will be playing in.

Literally no QB situation in the NFL has ever been like this.

He is either going to take the league by storm or fail miserably. There is nothing about him nor his situation that will be middling.

 

[Solar7]

One thing that you keep saying (not in this post, but elsewhere) is that you think Murray is going to be "middling".

Jay Glazer talked about Murray on his recent mailbag on The Athletic. Murray is either going to take the league by storm or be a bust.

Why is that? He just has too many nearly unique talents, but also the height detriment.

His arm strength is near the top in the NFL. His release is already compared to Dan Marino. He is the fastest QB in the NFL. And he has a unique mastery of the offense he will be playing in.

Literally no QB situation in the NFL has ever been like this.

He is either going to take the league by storm or fail miserably. There is nothing about him nor his situation that will be middling.

Here goes the hyperbole or "one person said it so it has to be true" comparisons. Dan Marino is one of the greatest to play the game. Let's all chill before we take that as fact. He has a compact, nice delivery, I'll give him that. Top of the league arm strength? Eh. I bet there's at least 10 guys who can sling it harder. "Fastest QB in the NFL?" We definitely don't know that one. He never ran, so we'll never know. There's still guys like Lamar Jackson and Tyrod Taylor.

As far as to why I think he'll be middling... for where we drafted him, middling does make him a bust. But, yes, he has a lot of tools, and it doesn't appear that he has major character issues that will kill him with drugs or off the field incidents. I think his athletic ability will bail him out of some situations for him to not be atrocious, but that the mental part of the game or a lesser roster than he's used to will lead to mistakes and eventually frustration.

Not to mention my heightened injury concern for any QB whose mobility is a significant part of their game. I know, I know, he'll know when to avoid big hits, whatever... I just don't like any QB who isn't sitting in the pocket taking advantage of all of the insane "you breathe on him, you get a penalty" rules.

He's calm, cool, and collected, but I see him either turning into Michael Vick (some tantalizing plays, maybe a playoff one and done, but never puts it all together consistently before age catches up to athleticism), or Marcus Mariota (good in flashes, but his athleticism is limited by nagging injuries and at the end of 5 years we can't decide whether to keep him or see him go).

 

[Dr. Jones]

Look..... I'm a huge Kyler homer. But I do think there is the opportunity for a middling level of QB play. Maybe his traits allow him to overcome his deficiencies but he still makes enough mistakes for the peanut gallery to moan and groan.

Do I think it will happen? No. But I definitely think its a possibility.

I have top 5 QB at 10%
Top 10 QB at 35%
Top 15 QB at 20%
15 to 25 QB at 25%
Bottom 7 QB at 10%

And yes..... I do think he has a 45% chance of being a top 10 quarterback straight from the damn jump. Don't @ me homie!

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I just want to be realistic. I do like that we're hearing all of the right things so far, but even most of the best QBs in NFL history haven't come out of the gate like Cam Newton did. If Kyler comes out and matches or beats that performance, I'll buy a Kyler t-shirt.

I ordered a black KM #1 T-shirt & a red one exactly the same about a month ago. 2 Cardinals hats also. The hats came in already but both T-shirts won't be shipped until September 27th, due to league rules on what number players will wear to start the season. Like KM will wear any number other than #1 lol, but ok. I'm gonna order the $300 KM Nike Elite jersey also. I'm gonna be optimistic & say our offense & KM will give teams fits this yr trying to defend the whole field. With the FO hiring an attacking 3/4 DC, signing some players on that side of the ball, young QB or not, I like our chances in alot of games. They have to prepare for us the same as we do for them. The Rams went worst to first 3 yrs ago with a young unproven coach so why not us? I will guarantee we are world's better this season than last at the very least.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Look..... I'm a huge Kyler homer. But I do think there is the opportunity for a middling level of QB play. Maybe his traits allow him to overcome his deficiencies but he still makes enough mistakes for the peanut gallery to moan and groan.

Do I think it will happen? No. But I definitely think its a possibility.

I have top 5 QB at 10%
Top 10 QB at 35%
Top 15 QB at 20%
15 to 25 QB at 25%
Bottom 7 QB at 10%

And yes..... I do think he has a 45% chance of being a top 10 quarterback straight from the damn jump. Don't @ me homie!

Think of Drew Brees with 4.3 speed if he needed the extra athletic ability. That is a possibility and no matter how slight it might seem to some, as Cardinal fans we need to embrace that when the rest of the league is just entertained with the notion and we want to win

 

[SECTION 11]

He’s a 30 for 30 candidate one way or another.

 

[SECTION 11]

He’s a football player. As opposed to Rosen who is a smart guy that throws footballs. I like our chances on this one.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

One thing that you keep saying (not in this post, but elsewhere) is that you think Murray is going to be "middling".

Jay Glazer talked about Murray on his recent mailbag on The Athletic. Murray is either going to take the league by storm or be a bust.

Why is that? He just has too many nearly unique talents, but also the height detriment.

His arm strength is near the top in the NFL. His release is already compared to Dan Marino. He is the fastest QB in the NFL. And he has a unique mastery of the offense he will be playing in.

Literally no QB situation in the NFL has ever been like this.

He is either going to take the league by storm or fail miserably. There is nothing about him nor his situation that will be middling.

Well said brother, well said.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Here goes the hyperbole or "one person said it so it has to be true" comparisons. Dan Marino is one of the greatest to play the game. Let's all chill before we take that as fact. He has a compact, nice delivery, I'll give him that. Top of the league arm strength? Eh. I bet there's at least 10 guys who can sling it harder. "Fastest QB in the NFL?" We definitely don't know that one. He never ran, so we'll never know. There's still guys like Lamar Jackson and Tyrod Taylor.

As far as to why I think he'll be middling... for where we drafted him, middling does make him a bust. But, yes, he has a lot of tools, and it doesn't appear that he has major character issues that will kill him with drugs or off the field incidents. I think his athletic ability will bail him out of some situations for him to not be atrocious, but that the mental part of the game or a lesser roster than he's used to will lead to mistakes and eventually frustration.

Not to mention my heightened injury concern for any QB whose mobility is a significant part of their game. I know, I know, he'll know when to avoid big hits, whatever... I just don't like any QB who isn't sitting in the pocket taking advantage of all of the insane "you breathe on him, you get a penalty" rules.

He's calm, cool, and collected, but I see him either turning into Michael Vick (some tantalizing plays, maybe a playoff one and done, but never puts it all together consistently before age catches up to athleticism), or Marcus Mariota (good in flashes, but his athleticism is limited by nagging injuries and at the end of 5 years we can't decide whether to keep him or see him go).

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Here goes the hyperbole or "one person said it so it has to be true" comparisons. Dan Marino is one of the greatest to play the game. Let's all chill before we take that as fact. He has a compact, nice delivery, I'll give him that. Top of the league arm strength? Eh. I bet there's at least 10 guys who can sling it harder. "Fastest QB in the NFL?" We definitely don't know that one. He never ran, so we'll never know. There's still guys like Lamar Jackson and Tyrod Taylor.

As far as to why I think he'll be middling... for where we drafted him, middling does make him a bust. But, yes, he has a lot of tools, and it doesn't appear that he has major character issues that will kill him with drugs or off the field incidents. I think his athletic ability will bail him out of some situations for him to not be atrocious, but that the mental part of the game or a lesser roster than he's used to will lead to mistakes and eventually frustration.

Not to mention my heightened injury concern for any QB whose mobility is a significant part of their game. I know, I know, he'll know when to avoid big hits, whatever... I just don't like any QB who isn't sitting in the pocket taking advantage of all of the insane "you breathe on him, you get a penalty" rules.

He's calm, cool, and collected, but I see him either turning into Michael Vick (some tantalizing plays, maybe a playoff one and done, but never puts it all together consistently before age catches up to athleticism), or Marcus Mariota (good in flashes, but his athleticism is limited by nagging injuries and at the end of 5 years we can't decide whether to keep him or see him go).

I don't want him to stand in the pocket just to take advantage of a penalty being called, when he needs to run he should do it. Don't think for a second a DL'man from the NFC West would think twice about taking him out? Penalty & fine would be a small price to pay for one of our divisional rival players to not have to play KM twice that yr. I want him to pass from the pocket yes but run when he needs to.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Here goes the hyperbole or "one person said it so it has to be true" comparisons. Dan Marino is one of the greatest to play the game. Let's all chill before we take that as fact. He has a compact, nice delivery, I'll give him that. Top of the league arm strength? Eh. I bet there's at least 10 guys who can sling it harder. "Fastest QB in the NFL?" We definitely don't know that one. He never ran, so we'll never know. There's still guys like Lamar Jackson and Tyrod Taylor.

As far as to why I think he'll be middling... for where we drafted him, middling does make him a bust. But, yes, he has a lot of tools, and it doesn't appear that he has major character issues that will kill him with drugs or off the field incidents. I think his athletic ability will bail him out of some situations for him to not be atrocious, but that the mental part of the game or a lesser roster than he's used to will lead to mistakes and eventually frustration.

Not to mention my heightened injury concern for any QB whose mobility is a significant part of their game. I know, I know, he'll know when to avoid big hits, whatever... I just don't like any QB who isn't sitting in the pocket taking advantage of all of the insane "you breathe on him, you get a penalty" rules.

He's calm, cool, and collected, but I see him either turning into Michael Vick (some tantalizing plays, maybe a playoff one and done, but never puts it all together consistently before age catches up to athleticism), or Marcus Mariota (good in flashes, but his athleticism is limited by nagging injuries and at the end of 5 years we can't decide whether to keep him or see him go).

Mariota and Vick have never been as good at throwing the football as Murray is.

What you are saying about "nagging injuries " is the same nonsense I said about Russell Wilson. Wilson avoids big hits

 

[Solar7]

I ordered a black KM #1 T-shirt & a red one exactly the same about a month ago. 2 Cardinals hats also. The hats came in already but both T-shirts won't be shipped until September 27th, due to league rules on what number players will wear to start the season. Like KM will wear any number other than #1 lol, but ok. I'm gonna order the $300 KM Nike Elite jersey also. I'm gonna be optimistic & say our offense & KM will give teams fits this yr trying to defend the whole field. With the FO hiring an attacking 3/4 DC, signing some players on that side of the ball, young QB or not, I like our chances in alot of games. They have to prepare for us the same as we do for them. The Rams went worst to first 3 yrs ago with a young unproven coach so why not us? I will guarantee we are world's better this season than last at the very least.

Yikes! Do you buy wedding rings for first dates?

Mariota and Vick have never been as good at throwing the football as Murray is.

What you are saying about "nagging injuries " is the same nonsense I said about Russell Wilson. Wilson avoids big hits

Not the point about comps as players. Regardless of whatever physical traits make them different, it's the big picture of their careers I'm talking about. Not good enough to win it all, not bad enough to make him an abject failure, the end.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

wedding rings

Nope, just feel like KM is gonna be exciting to watch so I'm getting his stuff early lol.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Mariota and Vick have never been as good at throwing the football as Murray is.

What you are saying about "nagging injuries " is the same nonsense I said about Russell Wilson. Wilson avoids big hits

I'm not sold on Mariota at all, I just don't think he is much of a passing QB. Vicks problem, other than the dog fighting stuff, was the fact he couldn't read a defense. All though on the college level, I've watched KM read defenses, go to his 2nd & 3rd options & throw on the run. Accurately & off of one foot. We'll see how well that translates in the NFL but I have faith it will.