Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[CorporalCardinal]

make the bad men stop.....

 

[Mainstreet]

If Leinart expects Vince Young money then he really will be going into next year's draft.

I'm basically a Suns fan, but I'm trying to believe the Cardinals are for real this year.

I do have one question though regarding the Leinart situation. Although I'm sure the Cardinals will probably sign Leinart in the near future, do the Cardinals have the ability to trade his rights to another team or do a sign and trade?

I'm just not that familiar with the rules concerning NFL team negotiations with players. I was wondering if Leinart and the Cardinals could not agree to a contract are there any options for the Cardinals and Leinart besides him re-entering into next year's draft?

From what I've heard about Leinart he has his feet on the ground and the Cardinals should present the idea situation for him. So hopefully, whatever is the sticking point, it will be resolved soon.

 

[Pariah]

do the Cardinals have the ability to trade his rights to another team or do a sign and trade?

Yup. Most recent high=profile example of this is when the Chargers drafted Eli Manning even though he vowed never to play a down for them. The Giants drafted Philip Rivers and they swapped (with some other considerations, of course, but point being, neither were signed) on draft day.

 

[Shogun]

I guess I'm the only one who isn't concerned at all....?

 

[Big Deal]

LOL! This is classic, one day and he's being traded or put back into the draft. He will be signed and he will be the franchise QB of this team for the next 10 years. Please stop with all the chicken little commentary.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yup. Most recent high=profile example of this is when the Chargers drafted Eli Manning even though he vowed never to play a down for them. The Giants drafted Philip Rivers and they swapped (with some other considerations, of course, but point being, neither were signed) on draft day.

Thanks for the friendly information. I would be interested in this issue irregardless of the player. Unfortunately, I know more about NBA operations than NFL operations.

I must say... the spolight is on the Cardinals this upcoming season and they need to get it done with the new stadium and all.

 

[RedRob]

Oh, please, drop all the drama. Discussion is not "retaliation".

Yes, I understand the English language. I'll just wait until I hear from Leinart, his agent, or the Cardinals, when they speak it in English, that they want Young's contract. Until then, you are just guessing like everyone else.

Let's admit that Bobcat forecasted our current dilemma, he was lambasted when he originally predicted this happening. Bobcat, your sources might be as old as the Bills' front office; but it doesn't mean they not in the know.

 

[D-Dogg]

That is because you have a hard time understanding English language. What is happening is exactly what I stated. Mat and his agents want Vince young type money. Now do you understand Matt's hold out. Maybe he will settle for less, but not much less.

why are you trying to be so antagonistic??? I guess that we on this forum must agree with the few who fell that they are running this forum, when it is really run by others who have done a great job in managing this site. We all have our own opinions so please let us state them without retaliation.

BOBCAT

He will be slotted. Can you wait to see that you were wrong before you jump around shouting how you are right? Seriously...nothing has happened yet. Unless he comes in higher than sims in guaranteed money, you will be wrong.

Until he signs, however, let's keep the chest thumping to a dull roar. It will be less crow on someone's plate then.

 

[D-Dogg]

I guess I'm the only one who isn't concerned at all....?

Nope, I'm not concerned either.

 

[D-Dogg]

Let's admit that Bobcat forecasted our current dilemma, he was lambasted when he originally predicted this happening. Bobcat, your sources might be as old as the Bills' front office; but it doesn't mean they not in the know.

Nobody would argue that Matt would WANT that. Of course he would. You don't need "sources" to guess what they might want in negotiations.

However, it is what he GETS that matters. The point of contention with Bobcat is he claims that slotting doesn't matter. The rest of us claim that it does, and his contract will be slotted. If he gets VY money, or even more money than Sims, then I'll admit I was wrong. But if Matt is slotted, then Bobcat has a LOT of apologizing to do.

Of course Matt would want VY money...he's three times the QB Young is. Problem is, he was not drafted in the same zip code.

 

[Totally_Red]

Adam Schefter update

Adam Schefter reported on Monday night's NFL Total Access show that Leinart flew back to California Sunday night (apparently spotted at Orange County airport). Still Schefter predicted Matt would be signed by the end of the week. (He also predicted Reggie Bush's signing and usually has pretty good sources.)

I agree with Russ Smith. Arizona holds most of the Cards in this one (pun intended.)

If the stalemate goes beyond the coming weekend I'll be a little worried. Until then Qué Será, Será.

 

[Bobcat]

Nobody would argue that Matt would WANT that. Of course he would. You don't need "sources" to guess what they might want in negotiations.

However, it is what he GETS that matters. The point of contention with Bobcat is he claims that slotting doesn't matter. The rest of us claim that it does, and his contract will be slotted. If he gets VY money, or even more money than Sims, then I'll admit I was wrong. But if Matt is slotted, then Bobcat has a LOT of apologizing to do.

Of course Matt would want VY money...he's three times the QB Young is. Problem is, he was not drafted in the same zip code.

I said that I would apologize if I am wrong, and let us leave it at that.

But on th other hand I did predict that Matt and his Agent were looking for what Vince young was getting rather than being slotted between picks 9 and 11. That was my point all along. Guy's the CBA has to make some concession when a player of his ability falls so far due to stupid Owner, and GM decisions. I.E. Tenn. Coaches wanted Matt, but got Vince and Huston got a DE rather than the best player in the country Reggie Bush. The GM was fired, ad the Owner of Tenn. got his man from Houston verses the better QB. Matt now suffering for this. I am all for the players when it comes to contracts. And if I am right D-Dogg you have a lot of apologizing to do to me and even as it stands right now you should start, cause what I stated would happen already has happened with Matt and his Agent wanted more then the slotted position would have payed out.

BOBCAT

 

[BACH]

Check out Bruce Cooper's video report on http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/

According to him, they agree on on the length and total value of the deal, BUT not the garanteed money. The Cards are willing to give him the slotted $13M, while Leinart wants $26M like Vince Young!!!

I'm surprised! The garanteed money is always slotted, so I expected the total value to be the issue here. If this is true, I'm teaming with the front office on this one. There's no reason why the Cards have to be punished for Leinart sliding all the way down to #10. This is also a hold-out that Condon can't win. If he wants #3 garanteed money for the #10 pick, then re-entering the draft is no option since Leinart would slide even more, because the slotted garanteed money is the only that is relatively certain when dealing with rookie deals.

 

[ajcardfan]

Check out Bruce Cooper's video report on http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/

According to him, they agree on on the length and total value of the deal, BUT not the garanteed money. The Cards are willing to give him the slotted $13M, while Leinart wants $26M like Vince Young!!!

I'm surprised! The garanteed money is always slotted, so I expected the total value to be the issue here. If this is true, I'm teaming with the front office on this one. There's no reason why the Cards have to be punished for Leinart sliding all the way down to #10. This is also a hold-out that Condon can't win. If he wants #3 garanteed money for the #10 pick, then re-entering the draft is no option since Leinart would slide even more, because the slotted garanteed money is the only that is relatively certain when dealing with rookie deals.

Yeah, I saw that last night. And, if Cooper is right, then Bobcat is right. He'll never get that much, but it might result in him leapfrogging Sims' guaranteed money. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. I've said all along there will be some sort of incentive put in that will make the deal seem much bigger than it really is. I think we can count on this deal not lasting five or six years.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I'm in general agreement with Bobcat on this one.

I think, (as I'm my own source) - that for the Leinart team the contracts signed between 4 and 9 to OT's, LB's, TE's and DB's - are largely irrelevant.

The slot they'd be seeking is in between the Vince Young (5 years - 58m) at #3 and Cutler's (6 years - 48m) at #11.

My fearless prediction is 6 years at 53m.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Thanks for the friendly information. I would be interested in this issue irregardless of the player. Unfortunately, I know more about NBA operations than NFL operations.

I must say... the spolight is on the Cardinals this upcoming season and they need to get it done with the new stadium and all.

BIM: regardless

 

[spanky1]

I'm in general agreement with Bobcat on this one.

I think, (as I'm my own source) - that for the Leinart team the contracts signed between 4 and 9 to OT's, LB's, TE's and DB's - are largely irrelevant.

The slot they'd been seeking in between the Vince Young (5 years - 58m) at #3 and Cutler's (6 years - 48m) at #11.

My fearless prediction is 6 years at 53m.

All well and good.....but what is the range of guaranteed money. Here in lies the rub. If Leinart produces to expectations, whatever contract he signs now will be renegotiated before the origional expires anyway.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I'm in general agreement with Bobcat on this one.

I think, (as I'm my own source) - that for the Leinart team the contracts signed between 4 and 9 to OT's, LB's, TE's and DB's - are largely irrelevant.

The slot they'd been seeking in between the Vince Young (5 years - 58m) at #3 and Cutler's (6 years - 48m) at #11.

My fearless prediction is 6 years at 53m.

The big thing that you would need to agree with here is the guaranteed money. Do you think that he will get $13 like Cutler, or $26 like Young.

I say the Cards should pay him no more than $15, $16 million tops.

 

[Mitch]

Check out Bruce Cooper's video report on http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/

According to him, they agree on on the length and total value of the deal, BUT not the garanteed money. The Cards are willing to give him the slotted $13M, while Leinart wants $26M like Vince Young!!!

I'm surprised! The garanteed money is always slotted, so I expected the total value to be the issue here. If this is true, I'm teaming with the front office on this one. There's no reason why the Cards have to be punished for Leinart sliding all the way down to #10. This is also a hold-out that Condon can't win. If he wants #3 garanteed money for the #10 pick, then re-entering the draft is no option since Leinart would slide even more, because the slotted garanteed money is the only that is relatively certain when dealing with rookie deals.

If this report is true and Leinart/Condon are holding out for more guaranteed money than what Ernie Sims received at #9...to the tune of the $26M Vince Young received at #3...

1. The Cardinals...as much as they may even want to throw more guaranteed money than what's expected at the #10 slotting...really cannot and should not. They would be breaking the NFL's precedent of signing first rounders and this would create havoc in future drafts, when other incoming players might be more inclined follow suit and hold out for the money they believe they deserve, regardless of where they were picked.

2. Matt Leinart is making a big mistake here. Yes, everyone was surprised he slid to #10...Yes, everyone was surprised he spurned the opportunity to be the #1 pick in 2005 in favor of returning to USC. However, the I'm special and deserve special considerations posturing should not sit well with teammates and the rest of the league. Yes, the players are saying business is business...but each of them had to accept beginning salaries commensurate with the league's slotting...like Anquan Boldin having to accept a 2nd round salary despite being projected as a 1st round pick. Boldin signed, worked his ass off, peformed at a Pro Bowl level and THEN was awarded the new contract.

Matt Leinart needs to do the same. $13-14M guaranteed is nothing to sneeze at to begin with. He needs to realize that he needs to show the rest of the league that he should have been a top three pick...and THEN cash in on his second contract.

 

[Russ Smith]

I always thought his family wasn't "wealthy"? I remember stories about him driving some old beat up pick up truck. And that his family, while not poor, wasn't rich either. Middle class, I guess.

Well Matt went to a private HS in LA and this past year his father was paying $2500 a month in rent on the condo Matt and Jarrett were living in (NCAA is investigating it, Jarrett may have to repay up to 10K to restore his eligibility).THe NCAA has already declared that arrangement WAS a violation. I forget what Bob Leinart does, think it's real estate, but the family was pretty well off.

 

[Russ Smith]

I said that I would apologize if I am wrong, and let us leave it at that.

But on th other hand I did predict that Matt and his Agent were looking for what Vince young was getting rather than being slotted between picks 9 and 11. That was my point all along. Guy's the CBA has to make some concession when a player of his ability falls so far due to stupid Owner, and GM decisions. I.E. Tenn. Coaches wanted Matt, but got Vince and Huston got a DE rather than the best player in the country Reggie Bush. The GM was fired, ad the Owner of Tenn. got his man from Houston verses the better QB. Matt now suffering for this. I am all for the players when it comes to contracts. And if I am right D-Dogg you have a lot of apologizing to do to me and even as it stands right now you should start, cause what I stated would happen already has happened with Matt and his Agent wanted more then the slotted position would have payed out.

BOBCAT

The problem is the Cards can't do that, we have a rookie cap and we only have so much money left in it. It's impossible for us to pay Matt the same money Young got, we don't have enough rookie pool money left(for this year) and the contract can only escalate so much. My guess is condon is asking for some creative ways down the line with bonuses etc to escalate the deal.

Remember when Matt fired his first agent and went to Condon it was pretty obvious this was coming, the only reason you fire your agent that soon after the draft is because another agent convinced you that your agent didn't do his job and let you "slip" but if you hire me, I can get some of that money back for you.

 

[blindseyed]

Until he's signed and in camp, in my eyes, he's not a Cardinal and I'm gonna pay attention to who IS a Card, like Edge, Q and Fitzand concentrate on camp and the players who are bustin their butts EARNING a spot on the team.
When he signs I'll welcome and root him on big time, until then he's just the former USC QB to me.

 

[slanidrac16]

I had stated earlier that if the only way the Leinart would be in camp on time was if the Cards paid him a 5th or 6th slot money.....not because thats what the Cards should do, but that was going to be the stance the Leinart camp would take. Heisman Trophy winner, 37-2 college record, etc.
I think both sides need to move a little. The Cards need to perhaps pay a LITTLE more than the 8th or 9th pick and Leinart needs to realize thats the BEST he is going to get.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

All well and good.....but what is the range of guaranteed money. Here in lies the rub. If Leinart produces to expectations, whatever contract he signs now will be renegotiated before the origional expires anyway.

The only contract THAT MATTERS is the one you are negotiating. No one is promised another day on earth, let alone a multi-million dollar football contract at some point.

I guess that the guarantee will be between 17 and 19m.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

2. Matt Leinart is making a big mistake here. Yes, everyone was surprised he slid to #10...Yes, everyone was surprised he spurned the opportunity to be the #1 pick in 2005 in favor of returning to USC. However, the I'm special and deserve special considerations posturing should not sit well with teammates and the rest of the league. Yes, the players are saying business is business...but each of them had to accept beginning salaries commensurate with the league's slotting...like Anquan Boldin having to accept a 2nd round salary despite being projected as a 1st round pick. Boldin signed, worked his ass off, peformed at a Pro Bowl level and THEN was awarded the new contract.should have been a top three pick...and THEN cash in on his second contract.

What you are saying is that it doesn't sit well with you - no more, no less.