Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[Big Deal]

The problem is the Cards can't do that, we have a rookie cap and we only have so much money left in it. It's impossible for us to pay Matt the same money Young got, we don't have enough rookie pool money left(for this year) and the contract can only escalate so much. My guess is condon is asking for some creative ways down the line with bonuses etc to escalate the deal.

Remember when Matt fired his first agent and went to Condon it was pretty obvious this was coming, the only reason you fire your agent that soon after the draft is because another agent convinced you that your agent didn't do his job and let you "slip" but if you hire me, I can get some of that money back for you.

He fired his agent before the draft.

 

[Russ Smith]

He fired his agent before the draft.

Whoops, you're right, 3 weeks before the draft.

 

[Mitch]

What you are saying is that it doesn't sit well with you - no more, no less.

Is it just me, Crazy Canuck?

Do you have a structured salary scale at your work?

If so, how do you feel when a new employee comes in and wants special salary consideration?

And how would you feel if he got special consideration when you didn't when you arrived?

Remember...you've been working here and the new guy hasn't worked a day on the job yet.

Isn't it logical to assume you'd feel somewhat indignant?

 

[abomb]

Leinart is taking a bit of a beating on ESPN.com's Page 2 Daily Quickie;

Apparently, Matt Leinart forgets that there's a "0" after the "1" in his draft position.

The rookie QB is acting like he's the No. 1 pick in the draft, holding out from the Cards while his reputation continues to take a nosedive.

Let's recount the decline:

• Passed up chance to be No. 1 overall draft pick in 2005 to return to school to win a second straight Heisman and a national title.

• Not only did he NOT win that national title, but he was beaten out for the Heisman by his teammate AND eclipsed by another QB.

• Went from being a lock as the No. 1 overall pick in the draft to the 10th overall pick, a slide featured on his sorry-looking Green Room face.

• Rumored to be involved with Paris Hilton. (Have to say: At this point, Leinart looks like a bigger skank. At least Paris doesn't hold out.)

Get to camp, jerko

 

[nurnay]

(Have to say: At this point, Leinart looks like a bigger skank. At least Paris doesn't hold out.)

 

[D-Dogg]

And if I am right D-Dogg you have a lot of apologizing to do to me and even as it stands right now you should start, cause what I stated would happen already has happened with Matt and his Agent wanted more then the slotted position would have payed out.

I wouldn't, and didn't disagree with that being what he'd want. However what he wants and what he will get are two VERY different things.

I will apologize for misreading your comments in the Cutler thread if all you are saying is that those wants would simply influence the negotiation and not that Matt will get a contract outside of the slot between 9 and 11. Re-reading that thread, you never state that his contract will BE outside his slot, but you allude to it (and that's what the contention of people like Ryan and I was based on). Perhaps is was a miscommunication, and if I misread you then I do apologize. If you think that just because Leinart wants bigger money that he WILL get paid that, then you are way off base.

So which is it you are saying...that he wants VY money? That I agree with and am not and was not arguing. Or are you saying he will get VY money, or at the very least be paid outside of his slot? That I disagree with and is my primary point. Are we not even arguing the same thing here?

 

[Bobcat]

I wouldn't, and didn't disagree with that being what he'd want. However what he wants and what he will get are two VERY different things.

I will apologize for misreading your comments in the Cutler thread if all you are saying is that those wants would simply influence the negotiation and not that Matt will get a contract outside of the slot between 9 and 11. Re-reading that thread, you never state that his contract will BE outside his slot, but you allude to it (and that's what the contention of people like Ryan and I was based on). Perhaps is was a miscommunication, and if I misread you then I do apologize. If you think that just because Leinart wants bigger money that he WILL get paid that, then you are way off base.

So which is it you are saying...that he wants VY money? That I agree with and am not and was not arguing. Or are you saying he will get VY money, or at the very least be paid outside of his slot? That I disagree with and is my primary point. Are we not even arguing the same thing here?

What I was trying to do was to let some people on this thread realize that Matt and his agent were not going to start negotiating as if Matt was the 10th overall pick, as some had assumed he and his agent would. That may have to settle for a lot less than Vince Young, but much more than Jay Cutler. Matt's stats from college indicate as much. Maybe between $15 Mil to $20 Mil guaranteed, $51 mil with incentives. Sorry for the confussion.

BOBCAT

 

[D-Dogg]

I think your amount of $15-20 million is high. I think he'll remain slotted, getting between $12-$14 million but with heavy incentives. I can't see the Cards cave on this, because it would set a terrible precedent.

With that said, the Cutler thread was quite vitriolic and uneccessary on both sides, and I apologize for my rudeness on it...it seems both of us were pissed enough that we didn't listen to what the other was saying.

Now let's sit back and see which one's numbers come in more accurately.

 

[Lloydian]

You know, as I read this thread, I find myself wondering if Leinart knows what he's doing to us. We're becoming more argumentative, occasionally losing our perspective.

Personal plea to Matt: Please sign so we can all be happy again.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I think your amount of $15-20 million is high. I think he'll remain slotted, getting between $12-$14 million but with heavy incentives. I can't see the Cards cave on this, because it would set a terrible precedent.

With that said, the Cutler thread was quite vitriolic and uneccessary on both sides, and I apologize for my rudeness on it...it seems both of us were pissed enough that we didn't listen to what the other was saying.

Now let's sit back and see which one's numbers come in more accurately.

My vote is on the $12-$14million... Matty Hollywood and Condon will continue to demand more, but the Cards will hold firm - as they should...

 

[arthurracoon]

Leinart, Cards aren't talking
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-leinarttalks073106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports

Negotiations between the Arizona Cardinals and No. 10 overall pick Matt Leinart, the second quarterback taken in the draft, didn't just remain deadlocked Monday – they were nonexistent.

Agent Tom Condon said Monday night that he didn't speak with Arizona management at all during the day after also not speaking to the team Sunday. Condon had spent three days in Arizona before leaving Sunday night to return to his home in Kansas City.

"We're working diligently to get Matt under contract and in camp as soon as we can," Condon said. "We have the same goal as coach Dennis Green to get Matt to practice so he can be ready for the season."

Condon did not want to discuss any specifics of the negotiations. However, a source indicated that the Cardinals are offering a contract that is not as attractive as the one signed by 2005 No. 10 overall pick Mike Williams, a wide receiver with Detroit and former teammate of Leinart at USC.

The Cardinals have offered Leinart, the 2004 Heisman Trophy winner who led USC to a 37-2 record over the past three seasons, a six-year contract that includes $9 million in firm guarantees and a little more than $2 million in additional guarantees if Leinart is injured.

By comparison, Williams received a five-year contract that had more than $10 million fully guaranteed.

In addition, the Cardinals have offered incentives wrapped around playing time that do not compare favorably with those received by No. 3 overall pick Vince Young, the top quarterback selected in the draft.

 

[Russ Smith]

FWIW the guys on the we are sc board are saying that Leinart's been telling current USC players he absolutely wants to be in camp and that the holdout is entirely over guaranteed money which seems to be in line with what has been discussed here.

 

[kerouac9]

Leinart, Cards aren't talking
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-leinarttalks073106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports

Negotiations between the Arizona Cardinals and No. 10 overall pick Matt Leinart, the second quarterback taken in the draft, didn't just remain deadlocked Monday – they were nonexistent.

Agent Tom Condon said Monday night that he didn't speak with Arizona management at all during the day after also not speaking to the team Sunday. Condon had spent three days in Arizona before leaving Sunday night to return to his home in Kansas City.

"We're working diligently to get Matt under contract and in camp as soon as we can," Condon said. "We have the same goal as coach Dennis Green to get Matt to practice so he can be ready for the season."

Condon did not want to discuss any specifics of the negotiations. However, a source indicated that the Cardinals are offering a contract that is not as attractive as the one signed by 2005 No. 10 overall pick Mike Williams, a wide receiver with Detroit and former teammate of Leinart at USC.

The Cardinals have offered Leinart, the 2004 Heisman Trophy winner who led USC to a 37-2 record over the past three seasons, a six-year contract that includes $9 million in firm guarantees and a little more than $2 million in additional guarantees if Leinart is injured.

By comparison, Williams received a five-year contract that had more than $10 million fully guaranteed.

In addition, the Cardinals have offered incentives wrapped around playing time that do not compare favorably with those received by No. 3 overall pick Vince Young, the top quarterback selected in the draft.

Waiting for the Graves apologists to come in and make this about Leinart being unreasonable/wanting more money than his slot/wanting Vince Young's contract/looking to get over on the rookie slotting system/whatever.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Is it just me, Crazy Canuck?

Do you have a structured salary scale at your work?

If so, how do you feel when a new employee comes in and wants special salary consideration?

And how would you feel if he got special consideration when you didn't when you arrived?

Remember...you've been working here and the new guy hasn't worked a day on the job yet.

Isn't it logical to assume you'd feel somewhat indignant?

maybe it's because of my profession, but no, i wouldn't. i would feel the following:

1. happy for the new guy. everyone should get what they can.

2. unhappy with myself for not negotiating a better deal when one may have been available.

3. be curious as to what additional traits the new guy may or may not bring to the table.

see, instead of placing blame, i'm looking for the reasons. once i know the reasons i can effectively negotiate something better for myself or choose to look for a better place of employment. to be bitter at a dude for getting a better deal than me is childish.

 

[Azlen]

"Condon did not want to discuss any specifics of the negotiations. However, a source indicated that the Cardinals are offering a contract that is not as attractive as the one signed by 2005 No. 10 overall pick Mike Williams, a wide receiver with Detroit and former teammate of Leinart at USC.
In addition, the Cardinals have offered incentives wrapped around playing time that do not compare favorably with those received by No. 3 overall pick Vince Young, the top quarterback selected in the draft.

After essentially blasting the Cards for negotiating in public, he turns around and does the same thing. Of course what the Cards are saying and what Condon is saying conflict with each other, but that's the way these things go I guess.

 

[Russ Smith]

Waiting for the Graves apologists to come in and make this about Leinart being unreasonable/wanting more money than his slot/wanting Vince Young's contract/looking to get over on the rookie slotting system/whatever.

To be fair what Arthur posted may be true but all it said was "a source", that source could be connected, that source could be a total guess. Neither the Cards nor Leinart and his agent have come out and even remotely confirmed those numbers.

IF the Cards are offering less guaranteed money than Williams got, it's a bad offer and Matt is correct in not taking it, especially since it's a 6 year deal not 5 like Williams got. I'd be pretty surprised given all the changes in the Cards organization if we're truly offering Leinart below slot.

 

[az jam]

Sorry but I don't believe any of the reports by inside sources. Graves and Condon are not negotiating in the press. We can post whatever we want but its all speculation. I just hope it gets done soon.

 

[az1965]

It is hard for me to believe that Cards would lowball their franchise QB, referring to the yahoo report.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Waiting for the Graves apologists to come in and make this about Leinart being unreasonable/wanting more money than his slot/wanting Vince Young's contract/looking to get over on the rookie slotting system/whatever.

Of course it's Leinart's fault. Just like all the holdouts by Rolle, Fitzergald, Dansby, Dockett, Wendy Bryant, Shelton, and Big Davis were those players being greedy and unreasonable.

After watching our picks come in late every year since around forever, you'd think some people would finally admit that there's something wrong in the front office. It's only a matter of time before Leinart bashing threads pop up on this board just as they did for every one of those guys.

 

[DeAnna]

Bruce Cooper on Ch 12 last night said Leinart is asking for 26mil guaranteed (like Vince Young), vs 13mil that Cutler got guaranteed.

 

[D-Dogg]

Bruce Cooper on Ch 12 last night said Leinart is asking for 26mil guaranteed (like Vince Young), vs 13mil that Cutler got guaranteed.

And it's crazy. The Cards would be idiots to do that. I don't blame him and Condon for trying, but there is (should be) no way that happens. It would ruin draft contracts as we know it (and it's already messed up as it stands).

 

[arthurracoon]

Bruce Cooper on Ch 12 last night said Leinart is asking for 26mil guaranteed (like Vince Young), vs 13mil that Cutler got guaranteed.

I cant believe that

he would be an idiot if he was demanding that much

although I dont think the cards offer is as bad as teh quote the Y! sports guy stated

 

[JeffGollin]

I've come to the conclusion that misinformation is flying around here like frisbees.

Technically, it's a bit premature to blame anybody, because we don't know enough (and guesses and what we hear from college chums or various media personalities - do not represent factual info. So we really don't know).

What do I think?

If I were Condon, I'd recognize that the Cardinals are at a pivotal point in their franchise (one where they yearn for no "distractions" on the eve of their next season). And I'd be doing my client a disservice if I didn't try to milk this for all it's worth.

If I'm the Cardinals, I'd recognize this tactic and out of pride my instincts would be to dig my heels in.

That's where I think we are.

But I'd also add that, when you decide to draft a high profile glamor QB with an agent who's no dummy, you should anticipate that this would happen. Personally, when you position the two priorities - (1) pride and (2) franchise success - side by side, I believe your best strategy is to spread your legs and let the inevitable occur.

After all - In the NFL, the objective is to win/not to score "pride points."

And PS - I wouldn't worry about setting bad precedents. We're talking about the first franchise-potential QBOF we've drafted this high since 1965 (when we didn't sign Joe Namath). Kelly Stouffer (1987) and Steve Piczarkewiecz (1977) while drafted high, don't represent franchise QB's.

 

[NMCard]

I wonder if graves is trying to put limits on Leinart's social life with the contract? Is it all Leinart's and Condon's fault? Is Graves the good guy in these negotiations?

 

[Russ Smith]

And it's crazy. The Cards would be idiots to do that. I don't blame him and Condon for trying, but there is (should be) no way that happens. It would ruin draft contracts as we know it (and it's already messed up as it stands).

I don't believe that anymore than I believe the Cards are offering below slot. Matt is not dumb, he's not going to ask for double slot value he has to realize that sort of stuff is going to get out.

I think we're just seeing a lot of rumors being planted here as both sides claim to not want to negotiate in the media.