Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[conraddobler]

this also flies in the face of what DG has said directly about failing in the 2nd wave of FA and being worried about depth at OL, LB and DB.

But yeah, it could be that a team which was pretty atrocious last year and added 3 players, one of which was an OL from a team who actually had an OL WORSE than ours, could believe that the backups fromn last year's pathetic team was better than whatever else was out there...

You are reading the cancelation thing flat wrong, first of all those were all deals pending before we even contemplated getting Edge, that whole thing happend very fast, at first we weren't going to do it then changed our minds rapid fire and went full court. They spent most of the money on Edge and did have some left true enough but not enough to continue on with the pre Edge plan.

ML is a holdout because he fell to 10 that's it. He's trying to get what he can at that spot and that's not easy to do, he will prevail to some extent but the Cardinals are going to fight most of it that's natural, the 9 slot killed ML, it's a bad deal thus the major parts of the problem.

Folks the money is just not an issue, it's just not, look it's always an issue to get good value and if it was your money you'd not just give it away. They do have the resources now, just do the math.

35k extra tickets times 10 home games, thats almost 16 million more in just ticket money, probably about that much in suite money and we haven't even gotten to the new parking and concession money yet.

No one called and shut off that money, that's just drivel out there, what happend was BB didn't let them do Edge and the pre Edge plan, and they may not have even wanted to do that.

All the other picks signed like clockwork, ML's deal is tough, he's a QB represented by a media agent, come on they will try to pry every penney out of this for ML and they are going to assume he's the backup to Warner which further puts pressure on the Cardinals, if we'd have signed a legit backup to Warner then this wouldn't be half the issue it is.

Condon has a big ole lever on the Cardinals that dosen't take full effect until later in camp, he's smart and he's going to use it, this was almost a foregone conclusion.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Concerning starters that is. But there were cap friendly depth players to be had. Before the edge signing we only had M. Brown called for a visit. But we did have interviews set up for 2 DB's and 1 LB (confirmed, more players may have had appointments that we never heard about esecially with how secretive the Cards are) only to be canceled. So lets take OT depth out of the equation for arguements sake.

What Cheese stated still remains for LB and DB with still 8 mill. left in the bank. So his point remains.

J...

Does your cap sheet reflect this?

 

[joeshmo]

J...

Does your cap sheet reflect this?

I havent updated that thing for months.

But Jurecki, Sommers, Urban, and Clayton are all saying the same thing. Jurecki keeps saying 12 Mill but that was before the rookies.

 

[joeshmo]

You are reading the cancelation thing flat wrong, first of all those were all deals pending before we even contemplated getting Edge, that whole thing happend very fast, at first we weren't going to do it then changed our minds rapid fire and went full court. They spent most of the money on Edge and did have some left true enough but not enough to continue on with the pre Edge plan.

Folks the money is just not an issue, it's just not, look it's always an issue to get good value and if it was your money you'd not just give it away. They do have the resources now, just do the math.

No one called and shut off that money, that's just drivel out there, what happend was BB didn't let them do Edge and the pre Edge plan, and they may not have even wanted to do that.

So all 3 of the Cards media insiders, Urban, Sommers, Jurecki are all wrong? Guys with real sources. Quotes from Denny and a few other poeple. The actions that we have taken. The cancel interviews had nothing to do with Cap space becuase we still have that cap space. So why were they canceled? There is no other conclusion what so ever other then someone turning off the money. It is right in front of our face and we refuse to see it. And I am not known for being a darksider far from it, i just see way to much evidence at this point.

No they did not spend most the money on Edge. 8 more Mill left to spend. thats 2-3 more good depth signings and still have enough left over for re-signings.

Edge Cap hit this year is 9.5. The cap went up by 7.5 more while we had our original plan in place before calling Edge. That only gives us 2.5 mill less to work on our original plan. You are telling me we couldnt even do half of our original plan (DB and LB at the least was our original plan, not sure about OT).

Look it is as simple as this. We had over 20 Mill of cap space to work with when FA started. We still have 8. We only signed 3 free agents? On a team that went 5-11 the year before. The coach telling us FA didnt go as planned. Multiple media sources saying the same thing. Sorry, but there is only one conclusion anyone with their eyes open should come to.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Look it is as simple as this. We had over 20 Mill of cap space to work with when FA started. We still have 8. We only signed 3 free agents? On a team that went 5-11 the year before. The coach telling us FA didnt go as planned. Multiple media sources saying the same thing. Sorry, but there is only one conclusion anyone with their eyes open should come to.

Joe has it dead on in his takes here. This is a simple math game; we were a team with many holes, and the resources to nicely take care of all of those holes. I don't buy the argument that there was no way to pick up more depth at tackle. While there wern't any top tier tackles available, we all knew from the beginning that we were one injury away from Fred Wakefield, and here we are. I wasn't too scared of one incompetent lineman starting, but challenge anyone who isn't worried to watch the Giants game from last year. Shawn Lynch up the middle was a disaster, and one of the main reasons we lost the game.

I recognize that it is difficult to fill all holes, and to have depth at every position with salary cap restrictions, but any casual fan could tell you that the addition of Milford Brown was hardly the OL makeover we were looking for. With the embarassing performance of the OL short circuiting any hopes of a successful season last year, why do we sit with 8 mil in the bank and essentially the same line? I hope Loney and Brown are enough to get things turned around, but wouldn't be surprised at all if they wern't.

 

[RedRob]

I'm the biggest Homer in the world, but I too am a little pissed at the situation. The reality is we had tons of money left under the cap last year and it appears we're heading into that same situation again.

Using simple logic: Money, if spent properly, can provide your team with more depth. You lack depth, even though you have money to spend. Logic then tells you one thing; a tight ass runs the show.

Now, if we end up utilizing all of our cap space to lock up players such as Davis, Dockett, and Dansby I will be the first to celebrate and apologize.

If, however, we end up being the leader in the "Most Money Under the Cap" category again I'm going to start voicing my complaints loud and clear.

 

[ajcardfan]

If this last report is true, ........


There's no way Leinart should be expected to sign a contract like that.

 

[Renz]

By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports
August 5, 2006

Leinart and Allen are the last remaining unsigned first-round draft picks.

Likewise, agent Tom Condon said Friday that the Cardinals have not worked with him on any of the three proposals he has sent them over the past two weeks.

“Everything we talk about, it’s just ‘No,’” Condon said. “I don’t know where to go with this thing at this point.”

Apparently, this is the 'same ol' Cardinals' front office. Wasn't it not too long ago that the Cardinals were so happy to get Leinart that they practically ran the card up to Tagliabue?

This is going to get ugly. Look for Leinart to miss most, if not all, of training camp. The Cardinals are going to be the only team not to sign their draft picks! What a joke! The Bidwills seem bound and determined to remain a laughingstock.

 

[Lex]

Here's my take:

The rookie pool is what it is. We've signed all of our draft picks except Matt, and the money left in the pool is what he'll get.

The contract terms aren't that important, since if he's as good as most people think he is, we'll tear that baby up early and re-sign him to a new deal anyway.

I think the real factor here is, Warner. He's the starter, if Matt looks great early, then we have a controversy on our hands. If Matt looks bad early, he could lose confidence, not to mention the grind of a 4 game preseason, and a 16 game regular season, on top of the long seasons he's had at USC, since they've been in the last game of the year the last three years.

If he comes in to camp next week, no one will expect him to play in the first preseason game, he can play a little in the next two preseason games on the road, and play a lot in the last one at home, against Denver's third teamers. Then he can watch from the sidelines as Warner runs the show to start the season.

I predict Leinart will start his first game as a Cardinal on Monday Night Football against the Chicago Bears.

 

[Evil Ash]

By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports
August 5, 2006

Leinart and Allen are the last remaining unsigned first-round draft picks.

Likewise, agent Tom Condon said Friday that the Cardinals have not worked with him on any of the three proposals he has sent them over the past two weeks.

“Everything we talk about, it’s just ‘No,’” Condon said. “I don’t know where to go with this thing at this point.”

Apparently, this is the 'same ol' Cardinals' front office. Wasn't it not too long ago that the Cardinals were so happy to get Leinart that they practically ran the card up to Tagliabue?

This is going to get ugly. Look for Leinart to miss most, if not all, of training camp. The Cardinals are going to be the only team not to sign their draft picks! What a joke! The Bidwills seem bound and determined to remain a laughingstock.

Keep in mind who it is coming from though. If he wants to be paid like Young when he's 7 picks lower then I'd say no also.

Of course no one wants to blame the real people in charge of the messes like this (where 15 out of 32 picks being holdouts) ... the NFL. They had a real chance to fix the mess of rookie contracts but it didn't even seem to be brought up into discussion. Rookies should be slotted regardless of position PERIOD.

Unfortately we still have a favorship torwards certain positions which is a joke

 

[Codeofhammurabi]

By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports
August 5, 2006

Leinart and Allen are the last remaining unsigned first-round draft picks.

Likewise, agent Tom Condon said Friday that the Cardinals have not worked with him on any of the three proposals he has sent them over the past two weeks.

“Everything we talk about, it’s just ‘No,’” Condon said. “I don’t know where to go with this thing at this point.”

Apparently, this is the 'same ol' Cardinals' front office. Wasn't it not too long ago that the Cardinals were so happy to get Leinart that they practically ran the card up to Tagliabue?

This is going to get ugly. Look for Leinart to miss most, if not all, of training camp. The Cardinals are going to be the only team not to sign their draft picks! What a joke! The Bidwills seem bound and determined to remain a laughingstock.

You are assuming a lot from a press release that comes from Leinart's agent. We are also the only team that drafted a player that thought he would go top three, and slid down to the number 10 spot in the draft. I doubt that we are offering less than what Cutler got at 11, and I doubt we are giving a lot less than the number 9 pick got. It may get ugly to some extent, but Leinart is not penciled in to start at any one of the 22 starting positions. Therefore, I will cheer for him when he shows up, until then; Go Kurt Warner and the rest of the Cardinals.

 

[NuttinButTDs]

You are assuming a lot from a press release that comes from Leinart's agent. We are also the only team that drafted a player that thought he would go top three, and slid down to the number 10 spot in the draft. I doubt that we are offering less than what Cutler got at 11, and I doubt we are giving a lot less than the number 9 pick got. It may get ugly to some extent, but Leinart is not penciled in to start at any one of the 22 starting positions. Therefore, I will cheer for him when he shows up, until then; Go Kurt Warner and the rest of the Cardinals.

I see the tide turning. The longer Leinart is holding out, the fans will start thinking about the team and not one person. We have a starter and Leinart is a luxury, at best. If Leinart was not available, we might have picked Cutler or someone else and would most likely not have had a hold out. Let this play out - as Leinart will not be a holdout for ever and it would be really dumb for him to sit out the whole year and go back to the draft. Remember Mike Williams, his favourite target. He was out of Football for a year and is struggling.

Go Warner, Edge, Bold and Fitz.

 

[Duckjake]

on top of the long seasons he's had at USC, since they've been in the last game of the year the last three years.

Only the last two years. LSU beat Oklahoma in '04 in the BS, I mean BCS, Championship game. A lot of people said USC should have played LSU that year, but USC claimed part of the mythical national title anyway with their Rose Bowl win.

USC and Leinart won in '05 and lost to Texas this year.

 

[NuttinButTDs]

If this last report is true, ........


There's no way Leinart should be expected to sign a contract like that.

There is something fishy. Are the Cardinals worried that Leinart will stop playing football relatively soon or rush of to the new LA team.

 

[kerouac9]

You are assuming a lot from a press release that comes from Leinart's agent. We are also the only team that drafted a player that thought he would go top three, and slid down to the number 10 spot in the draft. I doubt that we are offering less than what Cutler got at 11, and I doubt we are giving a lot less than the number 9 pick got. It may get ugly to some extent, but Leinart is not penciled in to start at any one of the 22 starting positions. Therefore, I will cheer for him when he shows up, until then; Go Kurt Warner and the rest of the Cardinals.

Read the rest of the article from YahooSports (not a press release--that's just stupid):

Tom Condon said Friday that the Cardinals have not worked with him on any of the three proposals he has sent them over the past two weeks.

“Everything we talk about, it’s just ‘No,’” Condon said. “I don’t know where to go with this thing at this point.”

A source indicated that the Cardinals have not offered as much guaranteed money in their six-year contract offer as the $10 million that Detroit gave to wide receiver Mike Williams on a five-year contract offer, the No. 10 overall pick in the 2005 draft. Leinart can get up to $11 million in guarantees, but approximately $2 million is only guaranteed for injury.

Leinart will not get that money if he is cut before the end of the contract. In addition, the Cardinals have asked for offset language in the contract, which means that if Leinart were cut before the end of the contract and receives bonus money from another team, the Cardinals essentially would get that money refunded to them.

It's not "same ol' Cardinals". It sounds like Graves is trying to be "creative" with the contract. If by "creative" you mean "stupid." Remember, Condon's one of the good guys in the business. That he's negiotiating through the press like this (something that he's never done in the past) is not a good sign.

 

[EuroCard]

I'm the biggest Homer in the world, but I too am a little pissed at the situation. The reality is we had tons of money left under the cap last year and it appears we're heading into that same situation again.

Using simple logic: Money, if spent properly, can provide your team with more depth. You lack depth, even though you have money to spend. Logic then tells you one thing; a tight ass runs the show.

Now, if we end up utilizing all of our cap space to lock up players such as Davis, Dockett, and Dansby I will be the first to celebrate and apologize.

If, however, we end up being the leader in the "Most Money Under the Cap" category again I'm going to start voicing my complaints loud and clear.

We had no money under the cap last year or the year before. We had some cap space at the beginning of last season but it was all utilized well before season end.

 

[EuroCard]

Here's my take:

The rookie pool is what it is. We've signed all of our draft picks except Matt, and the money left in the pool is what he'll get.

The contract terms aren't that important, since if he's as good as most people think he is, we'll tear that baby up early and re-sign him to a new deal anyway.

I think the real factor here is, Warner. He's the starter, if Matt looks great early, then we have a controversy on our hands. If Matt looks bad early, he could lose confidence, not to mention the grind of a 4 game preseason, and a 16 game regular season, on top of the long seasons he's had at USC, since they've been in the last game of the year the last three years.

If he comes in to camp next week, no one will expect him to play in the first preseason game, he can play a little in the next two preseason games on the road, and play a lot in the last one at home, against Denver's third teamers. Then he can watch from the sidelines as Warner runs the show to start the season.

I predict Leinart will start his first game as a Cardinal on Monday Night Football against the Chicago Bears.

In 2008!

 

[EuroCard]

If this last report is true, ........
There's no way Leinart should be expected to sign a contract like that.

Quit banging your head, there is another source saying he was offered more than the 7 pick in gaurantees with excalators based on him starting more than 75% of the games in a season.

And another source says he was offered around 17 mil in guarantees.

If you look hard enough you can find a lot of different sources quoting different scenarios, fact is, the Cards never release details and Condon knows that so will not be doing so either.

 

[ajcardfan]

Quit banging your head, there is another source saying he was offered more than the 7 pick in gaurantees with excalators based on him starting more than 75% of the games in a season.

And another source says he was offered around 17 mil in guarantees.

If you look hard enough you can find a lot of different sources quoting different scenarios, fact is, the Cards never release details and Condon knows that so will not be doing so either.

The key word was "if"....

I hadn't heard about either of these offers you mention. Where did you hear them?

 

[Duckjake]

This looks just like the Antrell Rolle threads from last year.

In fact the entire board looks just like last year's.

#1 pick holdout
Starting Olineman injured
King has a ton of potential but will he ever play?
pix of new stadium

It's going to be a long month.

 

[RedRob]

We had no money under the cap last year or the year before. We had some cap space at the beginning of last season but it was all utilized well before season end.

Go back and read this thread and you'll understand where I'm coming from:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=65301&highlight=salary

To summarize: While we "technically" end up utilizing most of the cap space, we do so in a way that ensures on a year to year basis we're one of the cheapest teams in the league - I thought this was supposed to change...

 

[40yearfan]

Go back and read this thread and you'll understand where I'm coming from:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=65301&highlight=salary

To summarize: While we "technically" end up utilizing most of the cap space, we do so in a way that ensures on a year to year basis we're one of the cheapest teams in the league - I thought this was supposed to change...

OK, I gotta ask. If we utilize most of our cap space, how does that make us one of the cheapest teams in the league. Everyone always talks about Philly and New England and how smart they are in using their cap space, but they never spend to their full cap. Are they cheap also?

 

[Cheesebeef]

OK, I gotta ask. If we utilize most of our cap space, how does that make us one of the cheapest teams in the league. Everyone always talks about Philly and New England and how smart they are in using their cap space, but they never spend to their full cap. Are they cheap also?

when we can claim that we've won 3 of 4 Syper Bowls or been to the NFC Title game for 4 of the last 5 years, then we can say - hey, we do it like the Eagles and Pats. Until then, it's foolish to make such comparisons because those teams do what they do and they've PROVEN the ability to do so AND win. We continue to do the same thing AND SUCK YEAR AFTER YEAR. That's why it's problematic.

 

[kerouac9]

Don't you think that if the published reports about what the Cardinals were offering were so patently false, Rod or Denny would come on and say "That's ridiculous"?

 

[Toro]

It's too bad that the two deals (the Cards offer and Conden's offer) aren't released to the public. I would love to see who is causing the holdup on this deal getting done.