Levi v. Potter for LT -- Winston v. Massie for RT

[RugbyMuffin]

The point that I'd like to make is that you're going all the way back to a Week 2 game in 2010 to complain about.

Again.

And ? So ?

What is your point.

There is no validity to the fact that Levi Brown has had his moments where he was beatened like a government mule ?

I mean if you need to see Levi Brown screw up we can go to week 7 2011, were he did his usual sub-average task of playing poorly.

Hype it up all you want. Worst rated tackle in the league, except for 8 weeks of his career in a going no where season.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

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I hate that stupid haka.

 

[Mulli]

I hate that stupid haka.

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[kerouac9]

You want to bring up situations where our OT's get dominated by defensive players then it should be all on the table.

Nate Potter gives up 3 sacks as a rookie to Julius Peppers

Levi Brown gives up a boat load of sacks to Patrick Kearney in his 2nd year.

It is a fair comparison, IMO.

And yes, I hold grudges for VERY long periods of time.

But, for Levi Brown I don't have to hold it very long, he gives fresh reasons every week Cardinal football is played.

I mean so far K9 you have convince me:

1. Levi Brown is now one of the better OT's in the league because the overall talent at OT in the league has drastically fallen off.

2. He is better than a 2nd year, 7th round player.

Oh Boy Howdy! How could I ever question the guy's ability !

I can't substantiate your claims about Brown's performance against the Seahawks in 2009 because the NFL.com database of game film doesn't go back that far.

I can look at Kerney's stat line from 2009: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KernPa99/gamelog/2009/

In two games against Arizona in 2009 Kerney had 1 sack. So, I think you're a little off-base here.

Kerney didn't play against the Cards in 2008.

What are you talking about?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

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Nice!

Everyone having a good time at the pitch in that game.

Guarantee the fans were singing a song while that madman ran around the field.

 

[kerouac9]

I mean if you need to see Levi Brown screw up we can go to week 7 2011, were he did his usual sub-average task of playing poorly.

Let's do that. First offensive snap of the game is a Kevin Kolb sack.

Suggs comes off the left end with a huge running start on Brown. Levi does a good job mirroring his rushing lane, but is too high when he engages Suggs. Suggs pushes him back into the pocket.

But Kolb deserves some responsibility here, too. Kolb has an escape lane right in front of him to pick up yardage or buy time to pass. Instead, Kolb bounces into Brown and runs back and to the left. Sack ends up for a 10-yard loss. And a fumble.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

What are you talking about?

http://www.footballdb.com/boxscore/2007120910

You didn't go back far enough, and I was wrong.

It was Brown's first year, so it is actually a perfect comparison.

I don't need any substantiation about Levi Brown's play.

The same people you tout as football statistical gods, are the same that graded Levi Brown play so poorly for the first 5.5 years of his career.

I really don't care who is better between Potter, or Brown.

But, to be hyping Levi Brown as the answer, saying Brown being undeserving of his criticism, and he is so much better than Nate Potter is a bit much in my book.

How about Levi Brown go a couple games with no sacks, and a good run average to his side of the line before he give him compliments about his abilities ?

I mean, I am still lamenting we didn't sign Jeff Flippin Backus to improve our LT play......I think that is all I need to say when I reference my belief in Levi Brown.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Let's do that. First offensive snap of the game is a Kevin Kolb sack.

Suggs comes off the left end with a huge running start on Brown. Levi does a good job mirroring his rushing lane, but is too high when he engages Suggs. Suggs pushes him back into the pocket.

But Kolb deserves some responsibility here, too. Kolb has an escape lane right in front of him to pick up yardage or buy time to pass. Instead, Kolb bounces into Brown and runs back and to the left. Sack ends up for a 10-yard loss. And a fumble.

Now you are just being mean.

I do not have the skills to depict who sucks more between BLOK and Levi Brown.

At that point, it is time to start drinking.

But, you do prove a point. That would be the extremely sub-average Levi Brown that we all know so well.

.....UGH. You trapped me. But, how can I bash Levi Brown when Kevin Kolb was still in his "chicken with his head cut off" stage of his career. I don't think any OT would be successful with BLOK in the pocket. Not to mention he has the amazing, best linemen on the Cardinals, Daryn College to help him on the left side.

 

[Mulli]

Now you are just being mean.

I do not have the skills to depict who sucks more between BLOK and Levi Brown.

At that point, it is time to start drinking.

But, you do prove a point. That would be the extremely sub-average Levi Brown that we all know so well.

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[kerouac9]

Levi's second sack in the first quarter isn't much prettier. Baltimore has a one-down lineman formation in the red zone. Suggs and (I think) Paul Kruger are lined up outside Levi's shoulder. The OG picks up 95, but Suggs (who IIRC was a candidate for DPOY this season) is too fast for Levi without additional help.

By the time Brown engages Suggs, T-Sizzle has set the corner and is on the way to the QB. Again, Kolb could help out his linemen and step up into a clean pocket, but instead stands there like a statue and gets creamed.

Cards settle for a field goal.

 

[BigRedRage]

i remember that first play vs the ravens, levi didnt block well but kolb proved to make very bad decisions under pressure.

 

[kerouac9]

This third quarter sack is one that I think on a first look seems like Levi screwed up on and would make fans apoplectic, but I'm not sure after watching it a few times that's fair.

The play from the defense is a weakside safety blitz. The Cards are in 11 formation with Rob Housler split out on the left side. The Cards see the blitz pre-snap and call out signals.

Levi blocks inside, and Housler doesn't make contact with the incoming blitzer, apparently interseted in the Go route, and Chris Carr has a clean route to the QB.

Kolb is looking at the oncoming rusher or at Housler. I think someone missed a hot read here.

 

[BigRedRage]

This third quarter sack is one that I think on a first look seems like Levi screwed up on and would make fans apoplectic, but I'm not sure after watching it a few times that's fair.

The play from the defense is a weakside safety blitz. The Cards are in 11 formation with Rob Housler split out on the left side. The Cards see the blitz pre-snap and call out signals.

Levi blocks inside, and Housler doesn't make contact with the incoming blitzer, apparently interseted in the Go route, and Chris Carr has a clean route to the QB.

Kolb is looking at the oncoming rusher or at Housler. I think someone missed a hot read here.

I would imagine the call on a DB blitz is get the ball out fast rather than committing a LT to that guy.

hes a good 10 yards left of levi

 

[kerouac9]

This next one is a fourth-quarter play where you probably ended up mad at Levi Brown when you should've been mad at Daryn Colledge.

Levi has help on the outside from the running back (in a lot of this film, Levi isn't getting the help that Potter received because Brandon Keith was such a dud).

Levi does a great job backing up and mirroring Paul Kruger as 99 makes his pass rush move. Kruger bull rushes Levi and does manage to get under his pads and push him a little further into the deep backfield. Kruger means to then go under Levi, but finds himself right next to Daryn Colledge, who has been overpowered much more from the inside and gets the initial pressure on Kolb, who is still sitting at the top of his drop because he's not interested in justifying the investment the Cards made in him.

Despite that, Brown manages to engage his man through the end of the play.

On a side note: Kolb's ball security practices were just dire. He fumbles at the end of this play, as well.

 

[Mulli]

Wait, Levi engaged until the whistle? Give that man an extension!!

 

[kerouac9]

One thing that I'm not explicitly illustrating here is Levi Brown's value in run blocking. In part, that's because it's still hard to show even with the All-22 film, and in part because most of the complaints seem to be about pass protection.

Suffice it to say (and you're mileage on my opinion will vary) that Nate Potter was a disaster as a run blocker. He wasn't only unable to generate push, but he was consistently pushed around. Levi Brown, even in this game, was an exceptional run blocker.

 

[Mulli]

One thing that I'm not explicitly illustrating here is Levi Brown's value in run blocking. In part, that's because it's still hard to show even with the All-22 film, and in part because most of the complaints seem to be about pass protection.

Suffice it to say (and you're mileage on my opinion will vary) that Nate Potter was a disaster as a run blocker. He wasn't only unable to generate push, but he was consistently pushed around. Levi Brown, even in this game, was an exceptional run blocker.

If you had to describe Levi's pass blocking:

<blank> pass blocking: exceptional run blocking

What say you?

 

[MadCardDisease]

Suffice it to say (and you're mileage on my opinion will vary) that Nate Potter was a disaster as a run blocker. He wasn't only unable to generate push, but he was consistently pushed around. Levi Brown, even in this game, was an exceptional run blocker.

Yeah I don't see what others see in Nate Potter. To me he is a servicable backup and nothing more.

 

[kerouac9]

If you had to describe Levi's pass blocking:

<blank> pass blocking: exceptional run blocking

What say you?

Serviceable pass blocking; exceptional run blocking.

 

[Mulli]

Serviceable pass blocking; exceptional run blocking.

Then I hope he only goes against servicable pass rushers.

 

[kerouac9]

Then I hope he only goes against servicable pass rushers.

With help, serviceable pass protectors can be effective in the NFL.

I've said it all along: Levi Brown can't be the best player on a good offensive line. That just not in him. But he can be the second- or third-best player on a good offensive line, because he doesn't take much off the table for you.

Absolutely he was over-drafted. Absolutely there are 15-20 other offensive tackles in the NFL who can do his job as well or better. But there are three or four other players on the OL who need to be replaced ahead of Levi Brown.

And I think that Keim's actions in bolstering the offensive line through the draft and free agent moves supports that. Although Keim and the staff's faith in Lyle Sendlein remains concerning.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

This next one is a fourth-quarter play where you probably ended up mad at Levi Brown when you should've been mad at Daryn Colledge.

Levi has help on the outside from the running back (in a lot of this film, Levi isn't getting the help that Potter received because Brandon Keith was such a dud).

Levi does a great job backing up and mirroring Paul Kruger as 99 makes his pass rush move. Kruger bull rushes Levi and does manage to get under his pads and push him a little further into the deep backfield. Kruger means to then go under Levi, but finds himself right next to Daryn Colledge, who has been overpowered much more from the inside and gets the initial pressure on Kolb, who is still sitting at the top of his drop because he's not interested in justifying the investment the Cards made in him.

Despite that, Brown manages to engage his man through the end of the play.

On a side note: Kolb's ball security practices were just dire. He fumbles at the end of this play, as well.

Good stuff.

Again, hard to judge a guy that is playing next to Daryn College, and has BLOK running around like a chicken with his head cut off.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Absolutely he was over-drafted. Absolutely there are 15-20 other offensive tackles in the NFL who can do his job as well or better. But there are three or four other players on the OL who need to be replaced ahead of Levi Brown.

I think you mean 2 or 3, cause we at least have to give Cooper 1 year before we hang him

I would like to see either the right guard or center position upgraded before we address the left tackle position.

 

[kerouac9]

I would imagine the call on a DB blitz is get the ball out fast rather than committing a LT to that guy.

hes a good 10 yards left of levi

Yeah. I watched that play over and over trying to figure out what was supposed to happen. The OL were pointing out the blitz, then Kolb moves between the OT and OG to give some instruction, then signals to everyone, then calls for the ball.

I don't know if the play clock was winding down or what.

Then ALL FOUR RECEIVERS run routes deeper than 10 yards. I thought they were running four verticals until someone runs a deep in instead.

Absolutely mystifying.

 

[ajcardfan]

Serviceable pass blocking; exceptional run blocking.

I think his average for pass blocking is "servicable". His history has been to be pretty awful the first half of a season, and pretty decent the second half of the season.