Levi v. Potter for LT -- Winston v. Massie for RT

[Mulli]

Everybody was a disaster in run support last season. The last 6 games the Cards averaged 63.5 yards per game rushing. 20 running backs did better by themselves last season. Capped off by that stellar performance vs the Bears where they picked up 29 yards on 17 carries. Potter, Colledge, Snyder, McQuistan, Massie.

Strange but true department: Batiste, Keith and Ohrenberger were all picked up by other teams.

Fun wager:

Will all three make the regular season roster? Will any start?

 

[Duckjake]

Fun wager:

Will all three make the regular season roster? Will any start?

Just that other teams picked them up is amazing. The norm used to be once you are out in Arizona you are out of the NFL.

Unless one of those teams hires Russ Grimm as Oline coach I don't' think any of them start. Nobody else would be that dumb.

 

[Mulli]

Just that other teams picked them up is amazing. The norm used to be once you are out in Arizona you are out of the NFL.

Unless one of those teams hires Russ Grimm as Oline coach I don't' think any of them start. Nobody else would be that dumb.

agree

 

[Duckjake]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/8/3/4585730/danthony-batiste-contract-steelers

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/06/vikings-sign-brandon-keith/

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/...e-agent-guard-rich-ohrnberger-to-1-year-deal/ Why am I not surprised?

These signings remind me of an old song:

"Hello Mother/Hello Father/A team just signed me/As Camp foddder."

 

[kerouac9]

So I went back and watched some tape from the Bears game to get the skinny on Nate Potter. One thing that jumped out to me very quickly was that Potter was getting a ton of help from either a running back or a tight end, and sometimes both, in passing downs.

This presented a real problem for the structure of the offense, because that's a play where you're taking one or two players out of pass patterns. On the first play of the game, Potter didn't even have to block Julius Peppers; Jeff King had him on the outside and did a pretty good job with him.

So I did a couple of slide shows of Potter's performances in the Bears game. This first one is from the first quarter, when Potter allows a sack on Ryan Lindley.

The slides progress from left to right.

Massie here is getting the additional help from a chipping William Powell. Potter's alone on an island, but doesn't engage quickly enough with Peppers to prevent himself from getting perpendicular to the line of scrimmage. Additionally, Peppers is already inside Potter's body.

 

[kerouac9]

This second cut is from a holding penalty that negated a ten-yard completion that wouldn't have happened had Potter not committed the penalty.

The DL is lined up wide, and Potter can't get his hands on him before he's already five yards upfield and turning the corner. Potter arm-hooks the defensive end and tries to flip him to the ground before the play is even over.

 

[kerouac9]

In this final cut-up, Potter has help from the running back, ought to know that it's coming, and still screws up in his pass pro.

Peppers does a great job "making himself skinny" in his pass rush, and there's nothing Potter can do to get his hands on him. When Potter should be leading him upfield (something the Levi Brown has been adept at for some time), he instead allows Peppers to turn the corner, and arm-bars him to try and hook him around before he can get to the QB.

Instead Peppers is just too big and too strong and ends up forcing the fumble despite getting held.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

You mention Breaston. He had one good year when he was the 3rd option and defenses concentrated on Fitz and Boldin (when he played). Breaston would have struggled mightily had he been the #1 option and gone against #1 CB's. Bottom line is talent wins out 95 time out of 100 and guys are drafted based on talent expectations.

Report: Saints expected to sign Steve Breaston

Ben Volin of the Boston Globe reports that Steve Breaston was also working out for New Orleans and that his workout was impressive enough for him to earn a contract with the team.

 

[DoTheDew]

I think the only reason Potter is even being given a shot is because Arians loves to pass.

While Potter will never be close to the run blocker that Levi is, he can potentially be a slightly better pass blocker eventually.

When you plan on passing 65% of the time or more you play the best pass blockers even if they aren't as good overall.

Arians knows he needs a good pass blocking LT to run the offense he wants to run. He knows that's never been Levi's biggest strength. Thus there's a battle. Ultimately, I expect Levi to win it this season but I don't think he can maintain the position long term.

 

[Buckybird]

I think the only reason Potter is even being given a shot is because Arians loves to pass.

While Potter will never be close to the run blocker that Levi is, he can potentially be a slightly better pass blocker eventually.

When you plan on passing 65% of the time or more you play the best pass blockers even if they aren't as good overall.

Arians knows he needs a good pass blocking LT to run the offense he wants to run. He knows that's never been Levi's biggest strength. Thus there's a battle. Ultimately, I expect Levi to win it this season but I don't think he can maintain the position long term.

I agree 100%

Levi has always been the square peg in a round hole at LT of the Cards offense

 

[SECTION 11]

Not a chance in hell that Potter beat out Brown.

It's not that I really feel that adamant about it, I just kinda want to see Bucky's head explode.

 

[Buckybird]

Not a chance in hell that Potter beat out Brown.

It's not that I really feel that adamant about it, I just kinda want to see Bucky's head explode.

Along with everyone else's on this board come week 5 when he's getting abused & getting Carson killed

I've seen this broken record since 2010

 

[SECTION 11]

Along with everyone else's on this board come week 5 when he's getting abused & getting Carson killed

I've see this broken record since 2010

That my friend is a long, long time to stare at a broken record.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Report: Saints expected to sign Steve Breaston

Ben Volin of the Boston Globe reports that Steve Breaston was also working out for New Orleans and that his workout was impressive enough for him to earn a contract with the team.

And he'll probably good as the 4th -5th WR option in that offense. I have nothing against Breaston. I was just pointing out that he's not a top line WR. He's very good in a role of 3rd, or lower, receiving option.

 

[kerouac9]

Because no one cares about my doing this, I went back and watched the Dallas game on coaches film from 2011. Levi Brown just did a masterful job in pass pro. Whether that's because the Cowboys' defense recognized that the interior of the line was an easier target is an open question, but Levi was doing a great job handling Dallas's multiple front.

In this example, Levi is challenged by a rusher from the same Wide-9 position that Potter was above, but he does a good job of not letting his man get behind him or getting his shoulders turned. Look on the right side of the line the way Brandon Keith(?) is completely turned around on the play (his man eventually gives up the sack).

It's evident here that Kolb was doing a terrible job "climbing the ladder" as the pass play develops. There's plenty of pocket in front of him to step up into, but he's too busy staring down Larry Fitzgerald to avoid getting he back blown in.

 

[GuernseyCard]

That's the game, which I referenced before, where Levi did a great job against Ware.

 

[kerouac9]

Also--and this is weird--why did D'Anthony Batiste start the Week 17 game against San Francisco? It must have been because Nate Potter was doing such an awesome job.

Or it could have been a sprained ankle: http://blog.azcardinals.com/2012/12/30/potter-inactive-batiste-to-start-vs-49ers/

 

[Quinn McCollum]

Also--and this is weird--why did D'Anthony Batiste start the Week 17 game against San Francisco? It must have been because Nate Potter was doing such an awesome job.

Or it could have been a sprained ankle: http://blog.azcardinals.com/2012/12/30/potter-inactive-batiste-to-start-vs-49ers/

I think it is fun with what you are doing but Potter was a rookie going up against one of the best DE in the NFL. Levi is a veteran in a contract year in the Dallas game.

 

[kerouac9]

So, I looked at the entire offensive tape from the Detroit game, and I walked away (again) unimpressed by Nate Potter.

Before I get to that, though, I do want to say that our offense last season was just depressing to watch. Easy passes sprayed all over the field, a run game that couldn't get out of its own way (although Beanie had a nice 32-yard TD run around right end where everything worked right out of a 22 set and Daryn Colledge pulled all the way around the end--past two TEs). I can't wait to field a professional-caliber offense again.

Anyway, I wanted to highlight this particular play. It's a WR screen that we'll likely see a lot of from the Rams in support of Tavon Austin. There are 3 receivers on the left--Michael Floyd, Andre Roberts, and Rob Housler. Housler and Roberts show slant patterns to draw the corners deep, and Floyd comes underneath them.

Potter slips off the line and runs downfield to find someone to block. He locates a linebacker, and the LB just shrugs him off and makes the tackle on Floyd.

I just don't see what others are seeing in Nate Potter.

There were some nice sequences of plays called in this game, though. Some really nice draw-action plays that allowed Potter to let Kyle Vanden Bosch or Cliff Avril just head upfield.

A couple of times the DEs sandwiched the quarterback only to find the RB had reached the line of scrimmage with the ball.

 

[kerouac9]

I think it is fun with what you are doing but Potter was a rookie going up against one of the best DE in the NFL. Levi is a veteran in a contract year in the Dallas game.

Well, what game am I supposed to look at? People are telling me that Potter was playing like a legit tackle by the end of the season. He wasn't playing like that in the Detroit game. He didn't play like that in the Chicago game. He didn't play at all in the San Francisco game.

I'm watching the Jets game right now, and a lot of the time he's not blocking anyone because the Jets are putting 8 guys into coverage and waiting for Ryan Lindley to throw them the ball.

Did Nate Potter play well for a 7th round rookie? I don't know; 7th round rookie left tackles probably shouldn't be starting in the NFL. But I can't tell the difference between Batiste and Potter (I had to look multiple times on ProFootballReference because I was pretty sure Potter wasn't black.

I can tell the difference between Levi Brown and Nate Potter, and that's why Levi Brown is going to be starting this season.

 

[THESMEL]

doesn't matter if we don't run the ball at all, everybody will drop 8 or more - and some will blame it all on Levi- why aint he superhuman- we got him in the first round-

 

[Cardiac]

Well, what game am I supposed to look at? People are telling me that Potter was playing like a legit tackle by the end of the season. He wasn't playing like that in the Detroit game. He didn't play like that in the Chicago game. He didn't play at all in the San Francisco game.

I'm watching the Jets game right now, and a lot of the time he's not blocking anyone because the Jets are putting 8 guys into coverage and waiting for Ryan Lindley to throw them the ball.

Did Nate Potter play well for a 7th round rookie? I don't know; 7th round rookie left tackles probably shouldn't be starting in the NFL. But I can't tell the difference between Batiste and Potter (I had to look multiple times on ProFootballReference because I was pretty sure Potter wasn't black.

I can tell the difference between Levi Brown and Nate Potter, and that's why Levi Brown is going to be starting this season.

You crack me up with your witty and smarmy comments.

Thanks for doing the tape review on Potter. I have some hope for him but I for one wasn't impressed with his play last year unless the he was a 7th rd rookie measuring stick is used.

Levi may not be elite but he is compared to those who tried to fill the void when he got hurt last year.

 

[Bodha]

Apparently Levi had a good week, per Arians.


Jeez this guys is fickle.

Levi goes from Elite, to competitive, to fighting off Potter for his job, back to 'good'


I dont care if youre just talking up your guy, that was the stupidest comment by Arians to call Levi 'Elite' probably before he ever met the guy in person.

 

[Buckybird]

Well, what game am I supposed to look at? People are telling me that Potter was playing like a legit tackle by the end of the season. He wasn't playing like that in the Detroit game. He didn't play like that in the Chicago game. He didn't play at all in the San Francisco game.

I'm watching the Jets game right now, and a lot of the time he's not blocking anyone because the Jets are putting 8 guys into coverage and waiting for Ryan Lindley to throw them the ball.

Did Nate Potter play well for a 7th round rookie? I don't know; 7th round rookie left tackles probably shouldn't be starting in the NFL. But I can't tell the difference between Batiste and Potter (I had to look multiple times on ProFootballReference because I was pretty sure Potter wasn't black.

I can tell the difference between Levi Brown and Nate Potter, and that's why Levi Brown is going to be starting this season.

I get that you think Potter isn't all that good, but I know Levi isn't all that good given his 3 years at LT for the Cards, by just watching the pressures & the sacks on TV...I'm sick & tired of hearing Pasch's radio call, "sacked, Levi Brown again (in his disgusted voice)". Serious as a heart attack!

Lets just say that the Cards need a legit pass blocking LT thru the draft next year to make this offense make the next step!

Btw I like watching you & a few others break down to all 22 film! Keep up the good work

 

[BACH]

Well, what game am I supposed to look at? People are telling me that Potter was playing like a legit tackle by the end of the season. He wasn't playing like that in the Detroit game. He didn't play like that in the Chicago game. He didn't play at all in the San Francisco game.

I'm watching the Jets game right now, and a lot of the time he's not blocking anyone because the Jets are putting 8 guys into coverage and waiting for Ryan Lindley to throw them the ball.

Did Nate Potter play well for a 7th round rookie? I don't know; 7th round rookie left tackles probably shouldn't be starting in the NFL. But I can't tell the difference between Batiste and Potter (I had to look multiple times on ProFootballReference because I was pretty sure Potter wasn't black.

I can tell the difference between Levi Brown and Nate Potter, and that's why Levi Brown is going to be starting this season.

My point exactly!!!

Should the coaches (or us) really accept worse play from Potter, because he's a 7th round pick?

Has Levi Brown lived up to the draft status of being the 5th overall pick? No!
Was drafting Brown over Peterson a terrible choice? Yes!

BUT! GET OVER IT!!!! It's a Sunk cost!

What matters now is getting the best production from the LT and OL in general. And no matter how you feel about Brown, there's NOTHING to suggest that Potter is a better option at this point