lol @ how dirty the Spurs play..

[jagu]

Yes he did. Twice.

If that isn't obvious by now I say just stop lol.

 

[ambchang_]

Bumping a guy with your body is what happens when you get very close to your man. Swinging your leg and foot under a player, pivoting to the OUTSIDE when on the sideline to knee a player in the junk, leading with your foot when jumping AT a shooter...those are not accidents.

Players twists their ankles when they land by stepping on other players' foot, Bowen is not the first guy to do it, he did it twice, and he became the poster boy of dirtiness.

For Nash http://youtube.com/watch?v=7J2SDouIqtA
I am not sure what pivoting to the OUTSIDE means, and frankly, why would that make any difference? He caught the ball, turned to face the basket, which is as natural basketball move as could be.

As for the third, how is that different from your first point?

I don't doubt Bowen is respected for his defense. I don't doubt he has been praised for it. But he has also cheap-shotted other players, injured other players, and other players and coaches have also pointed this out. The two things can co-exist. I have seen footage that proves Bowen DID cheap-shot Francis and Crawford; show me the quotation that they think he's clean on those plays.

Cheap shots? You mean it's not about breaking ankles anymore?

I am still looking for the quote, and interestingly, I couldn't find any quote by Crawford or Francis on Bowen, in the mean time.

From Kurt Thomas:
“I hit Kurt with an elbow by accident,” he said, referring to the Suns’ Kurt Thomas. “I said, ‘Kurt, you’re all right?’ He said, ‘Bruce, come on man, it’s just part of the game.’ He understood because of the pick he set on me.”

From writer David Dupree(http://transcripts.usatoday.com/Chats/transcript.aspx?c=929):
Knoxville, TN: Mr. DuPree, much has been made lately about Bruce Bowen undercutting players and "unintentionally" trying to injure them - Steve Francis hurt his ankle. A few nights later Isiah Thomas yelled at and threatened Bowen for supposedly doing the same thing to another player. I know Vince Carter and Ray Allen have complained about Bowen before. What is your take on the situation? It seems to me that if Bowen is playing tight on his man that when the man goes to take a jump shot he's going to come close to landing on top of Bowen. That is, when the shot takes the man forward it's going to take him into the defender. The main difference between Bowen and other defenders is that most defenders don't play as tight out on the perimeter as Bowen does because they can't move as quickly laterally. Am I right about that? Or is Bowen just a dirty player? Thanks again, sir. - BazzyDavid DuPree: I respect Bowen a great deal and in no way consider him a dirty player. He competes hard and isn't going to give up anything. He is also a good , thoughtful, fair person and would never try to injure an opponent. He respects the game and his opponents too much for that. I'll vouch for Bruce Bowen any day of the week. And one more thing: I think Isiah was one of the greatest point guards in the history of the NBA, and more than a few opponents called him dirty.

From Jeff Van Gundy: (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...MYSA111506.07C.BKNspurs.notebook.88b40e0.html)

"I have no problem with that, but my only concern is if somebody comes close. What if somebody says, 'Owww!' Now do I get a foul?"
Houston coach Jeff Van Gundy said he doesn't think the plays in question were committed with malice.
"If he says that's unintentional, who am I to question him?" Van Gundy said. "Some players, any time a guy competes hard against him, the first word they use is 'dirty'. Because you know they don't want to put as much effort into the game as a guy who competes hard.

Raja Bell on the "kick" on Stoudemire: (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?p=1966118)

""I haven't seen the play," he said. "Dirty is not a word I like to use about anybody. They play hard, their physical. It's a physical time of year, but I didn't get kicked. Amare has the right to feel the way he wants to feel."

That is only clear to you. And again, kicking at a prone player is enough. You don't have to make contact. Also, why do you have to kick a guy to look for a loose ball? You don't.

He did not kick a guy, he turned around, and his knee moved. What does that have to do with kicking? You are saying that he is not supposed to even move his legs at all during a fight for the loose ball.

In the second alleged "kick", Bowen was clearly moving backwards to avoid further contact, but to people like you, it is a kick.

 

[elindholm]

Let's not forget that Raja Bell threw Kobe onto the floor in a playoff game.

Once. It was a mistake, but it was one mistake.

 

[jagu]

Wow David Dupree said he isn't dirty. I say lets make that the final word. Ambchang your a moron and I don't care if I get banned for saying that.

 

[Cheesewater]

Players twists their ankles when they land by stepping on other players' foot, Bowen is not the first guy to do it, he did it twice, and he became the poster boy of dirtiness.

Bowen puts his foot under there on purpose though. Why would someone make such a move with their foot otherwise? It's not like he was rushing the shooter and stopped, or jumped at the shooter and his momentum carried him under.

For Nash http://youtube.com/watch?v=7J2SDouIqtA
I am not sure what pivoting to the OUTSIDE means, and frankly, why would that make any difference? He caught the ball, turned to face the basket, which is as natural basketball move as could be.

Why would Bowen pivot to the sideline except to knee Steve Nash? If you are on the left sideline, why would you pivot to the left? It's not incidental, we wasn't pivoting to make a move around Steve. My point is there is no basketball reason for that move. He did not turn to face the basket.

As for the third, how is that different from your first point?

The stepping-under-a-jump-shooter and the kicking-the-back-of-the-leg-of-a-player are two separate cheap shots.

Cheap shots? You mean it's not about breaking ankles anymore?

I never said anything about breaking ankles. In fact, I have maintained the point that it's the move that deserves punishing whether or not Bowen made contact.

I am still looking for the quote, and interestingly, I couldn't find any quote by Crawford or Francis on Bowen, in the mean time.

Thought so.

From Kurt Thomas:
“I hit Kurt with an elbow by accident,” he said, referring to the Suns’ Kurt Thomas. “I said, ‘Kurt, you’re all right?’ He said, ‘Bruce, come on man, it’s just part of the game.’ He understood because of the pick he set on me.”

That's an elbow. Who's talking about elbows?

From writer David Dupree

article snipped

First off, who the hell is David DuPree? If Bowen's defense is so good, shouldn't he be jumping UP with the shooter to defend instead of staying on the floor, ending up under the shooter? I think that IS Bowen's defense. Instead of jumping UP to put a hand in the face or block the shot, he slides UNDER the shooter. Then no one tries a jump shot with Bowen around, lest they get injured.

From Jeff Van Gundy:

again, snipped

You edited that out of context I see. Regardless, Van Gundy says nothing to specific instances. It's not relevant to this discussion to say that Van Gundy believes Bowen isn't dirty just because Bowen says he isn't.

Raja Bell on the "kick" on Stoudemire:

snipped, again

Okay so Raja Bell doesn't like to use the word "dirty"...so what? Did he say he thinks Bowen isn't dirty?

He did not kick a guy, he turned around, and his knee moved. What does that have to do with kicking? You are saying that he is not supposed to even move his legs at all during a fight for the loose ball.

He kicked at Chris Paul twice. Unrelated to the loose ball.

In the second alleged "kick", Bowen was clearly moving backwards to avoid further contact, but to people like you, it is a kick.

People like me...people who like to see a clean game including the good folks at NBA headquarters. Certainly Bowen moves backwards, after kicking at Paul a second time, so he can thow up his hands and make himself innocent of wrongdoing.

 

[GorrilaLips]

Cheesewater - there's no use of converting the narrow minded. Take this analogy for instance: Bruce Bowen is like one of those A.D.D kids running amuck in a restaurant, doing whatever he pleases without much fear of any repercussions or getting into trouble but a slight slap on the wrist by their parents; who in this scenario would be the San Antonio Spurs.

Well, there are people all around who are seated, trying to enjoy their dinner (all sorts of teams from the N.B.A) and point out to the parents of this young relaxed-challenged kid what he is doing wrong and to have him settle down and knock it off. Well, the parents (SA spurs) in defense of the kid (bowen) say...."hey, kids will be kids...what could you do right?" and continue letting the kid do as he pleases.

It's not until the restaurant managers and staff (NBA) decide enough is enough....let the parents know (SA) to shut the kid down and leave the restaurant. The kid thinks he did nothing wrong as well as the parents......the "who me?" attitude comes into play. Sometimes.....You just can't fix stupid.

 

[shazaam6]

"Bowen is not dirty"





OK fine Bowen uses his feet and legs in ways that other NBA players don't.




Why don't all NBA players do that if it is allowed?



Good question. Maybe they are too stupid to realize how effective it is to kick people, step under them when they shoot, knee them in the nuts to create space.



ambchang, just try to play a pickup game using any of those techniques and see if you are admired for your excellent playing skills.



Say "bu bu but Bowen does it." And see if you don't get beat for being a *******.

 

[ambchang_]

Wow David Dupree said he isn't dirty. I say lets make that the final word. Ambchang your a moron and I don't care if I get banned for saying that.

No offense taken, because with your response, you basically demonstrated that you do not have any objective points.
1) You ignored Jeff Van Gundy's statement.
2) You ignored Kurt Thomas' statement.
3) It was stated multiple times in this thread that I (and possibly a few Spurs homers) are the only people on earth who would think Bowen is not dirty. Well, here are the quotes, but you continue to ignore them. I am not trying to argue there are more people who think Bowen is not dirty, but there are more people who don't know how to build rockets than those who do, doesn't mean that those who do are wrong.
4) You have once again degenerated your arguments to name-calling.

 

[ambchang_]

Bowen puts his foot under there on purpose though. Why would someone make such a move with their foot otherwise? It's not like he was rushing the shooter and stopped, or jumped at the shooter and his momentum carried him under.

I have listed previously in the thread about jumping into the shooter, and it happens.

Bowen NEVER puts his foot under the shooter on purpose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdxXvkMB6gA

Why would Bowen pivot to the sideline except to knee Steve Nash? If you are on the left sideline, why would you pivot to the left? It's not incidental, we wasn't pivoting to make a move around Steve. My point is there is no basketball reason for that move. He did not turn to face the basket.

He was facing mid-court when he got the ball, what was he supposed to do? You would turn and face the basket. He didn't face the sideline, he faced the basket. It doesn't even make any sense. Are you saying Nash was guarding Bowen by standing between Bowen and the sideline and not between Bowen and the basket?

The stepping-under-a-jump-shooter and the kicking-the-back-of-the-leg-of-a-player are two separate cheap shots.

You mean the kick to Amare where even Bell said wasn't much?

I never said anything about breaking ankles. In fact, I have maintained the point that it's the move that deserves punishing whether or not Bowen made contact.

For stepping away from Paul? He wasn't supposed to stand over Paul, he wasn't supposed to move, so what is he supposed to do? Just somehow levitate to get away from Paul? How do you walk away without moving your legs?

Thought so.


That's an elbow. Who's talking about elbows?


article snipped

First off, who the hell is David DuPree? If Bowen's defense is so good, shouldn't he be jumping UP with the shooter to defend instead of staying on the floor, ending up under the shooter? I think that IS Bowen's defense. Instead of jumping UP to put a hand in the face or block the shot, he slides UNDER the shooter. Then no one tries a jump shot with Bowen around, lest they get injured.

So a writer's opinion is not an opinion, while posters on this site have more credit. may I ask, who are you? Why would your opinion be any more valuable than Duprees?

Was he staying under the shooter? Show me a clip where Bowen stepped under a shooter without jumping? All the "controversial" plays involving Bowen involves him jumping into the jump shooter, and the jump shooter jumping forward, ending up with both landing in around the same spot.

Show me a move where he slides under the shooter.

again, snipped

You edited that out of context I see. Regardless, Van Gundy says nothing to specific instances. It's not relevant to this discussion to say that Van Gundy believes Bowen isn't dirty just because Bowen says he isn't.

What? He was saying in general Bowen is not dirty, you are saying in general Bowen is dirty. What have I edited out of context? Care to be more specific? Do you want me to take the whole article, including things that do not concern Bowen and Van Gundy?

snipped, again

Okay so Raja Bell doesn't like to use the word "dirty"...so what? Did he say he thinks Bowen isn't dirty?

He said both teams are playing physical, and people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

He kicked at Chris Paul twice. Unrelated to the loose ball.

And I have shown over and over and over and over again that he was moving naturally. The first time turning around to track the basketball, the second time he was actually trying to step away from Paul. Again, tell me how you can walk without moving your knees.

People like me...people who like to see a clean game including the good folks at NBA headquarters. Certainly Bowen moves backwards, after kicking at Paul a second time, so he can thow up his hands and make himself innocent of wrongdoing.

His supposed "kick" was when he was stepping away from the play. Again, show me, screencap the sequence in the 2nd "kick" where he was NOT moving away from Paul.

I took them time to take out videos, screencaps, etc ... and you guys are just arguing on "I thinks" and "I saws'.

 

[ambchang_]

"Bowen is not dirty"


OK fine Bowen uses his feet and legs in ways that other NBA players don't.


Why don't all NBA players do that if it is allowed?

Why don't all NBA players average 30 ppg like Kobe? Why don't all NBA players get named to All-D teams 4 years in a row?

Good question. Maybe they are too stupid to realize how effective it is to kick people, step under them when they shoot, knee them in the nuts to create space.

Players DO accidentally put their foot under another player, those are called accidents. Contact gets made in the game of basketball. Bowen himself was accidentally hit in the groin twice in the play with Paul.

ambchang, just try to play a pickup game using any of those techniques and see if you are admired for your excellent playing skills.

I wish I would get paid $3M a year with the sole purpose of stopping the opposing team's best perimeter player day in and day out. ANd if I do, I would play like that if I could.

Say "bu bu but Bowen does it." And see if you don't get beat for being a *******.

Problem is, there are a list of admirers for the way Bowen plays defense. Coaches vote for All-D teams, and Bowen gets there year in and year out. I guess they just don't understand the game as much as people on arizonasportsfans.com doo.

 

[ambchang_]

I am still waiting for this objective crowd to say something about Phade's sexist comments.
Aren't you guys supposed to stand for what you believe in, regardless of who the other person is? I mean, we have clearly unbiased readers on this post who would have Bowen complaining pic as his signature. This is CLEARLY unbiased.

 

[shazaam6]

ambchang Bowen extends his leg into the area where a jumpshooter is going to land, while turning his head so it looks like he isn't aware of his foot. It isn't an accident. Maybe he discovered that it takes out the other player accidentally the first time it happened, but he seems to have too many accidents on purpose.

What is your explaination for the 2 jump kicks that have connected to a players face?

If that just happens, where are the other youtube videos of it just happening to other players playing defense?

 

[Cheesewater]

I have listed previously in the thread about jumping into the shooter, and it happens.

Bowen NEVER puts his foot under the shooter on purpose

How would you know whether he is doing it on purpose or not? I'll tell you how one would know: Is it the kind of move that someone would have to think about to make it happen? Meaning, is it an otherwise unnatural or unreasonable move? Yes. Those moves are on purpose and you are deluded if you think otherwise.

He was facing mid-court when he got the ball, what was he supposed to do? You would turn and face the basket. He didn't face the sideline, he faced the basket. It doesn't even make any sense. Are you saying Nash was guarding Bowen by standing between Bowen and the sideline and not between Bowen and the basket?

If Nash was not there, Bowen's pivot would have him facing at the very least, the baseline. Bounded on the left by the sideline, where is he going?

You mean the kick to Amare where even Bell said wasn't much?

Is Bell the same as Amare? "Wasn't much"...how much does it have to be? Again, just because it didn't injure Amare doesn't negate it's existance.

For stepping away from Paul? He wasn't supposed to stand over Paul, he wasn't supposed to move, so what is he supposed to do? Just somehow levitate to get away from Paul? How do you walk away without moving your legs?

No. For kicking at Paul. Twice. I can't believe I have to keep reminding you what happened.

So a writer's opinion is not an opinion, while posters on this site have more credit. may I ask, who are you? Why would your opinion be any more valuable than Duprees?

It's definitely an opinion. But it means nothing to me when weighed against what I have seen with my own eyes and weighed against what OTHER MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE HAVE CONCLUDED.

Was he staying under the shooter? Show me a clip where Bowen stepped under a shooter without jumping? All the "controversial" plays involving Bowen involves him jumping into the jump shooter, and the jump shooter jumping forward, ending up with both landing in around the same spot.

Wrong. Just watched a few. Iverson: Not jumping at him. Francis: Jumping straight up while turning to throw his leg/foot under Francis (this one is really unnatural...a smoking gun). Anthony Parker: Bowen is actually jumping AWAY from Parker in this one. I'll give you the Szczerbiak one, Bowen is definitely jumping at Wally in that one...of course it's so he can kick Wally in the face...

What? He was saying in general Bowen is not dirty, you are saying in general Bowen is dirty. What have I edited out of context? Care to be more specific? Do you want me to take the whole article, including things that do not concern Bowen and Van Gundy?

First off, that's not what Raja Bell said. Furthermore, I am not saying Bowen is dirty. His actions are. Yes, Van Gundy is obviously responding to something earlier in the interview/chat/whatever. Don't bother posting it though. It won't help you. The Van Gundy bit is useless to you.

And I have shown over and over and over and over again that he was moving naturally. The first time turning around to track the basketball, the second time he was actually trying to step away from Paul. Again, tell me how you can walk without moving your knees.

You think you have shown it, but you haven't. You are seeing something few others see. It may be mental. Trust me. I have seen it and many others have seen it. To us (and the NBA), Bruce Bowen kicks at Chris Paul twice.

His supposed "kick" was when he was stepping away from the play. Again, show me, screencap the sequence in the 2nd "kick" where he was NOT moving away from Paul.

Bowen moves away after the second kick attempt, the one where Paul flops. It's the first kick, the one that happens right on the left edge of the video, that appears to connect or come close to connecting. NOT THAT CONNECTING MATTERS.

I took them time to take out videos, screencaps, etc ... and you guys are just arguing on "I thinks" and "I saws'.

True, you did take the time to pick the screencaps that you think support your claims. I just watched it again for the umpteenth time....

Bruce Bowen kicks at Chris Paul twice. Not trying to get free. Not trying to walk anywhere. And as for your "tracking the ball" I actually see Bowen turn his head toward the ball, stop, then kick Paul. He's not turning his whole body toward the ball and inadvertently kicking Paul. It looks as though he is actually looking away on purpose so he CAN kick Paul. Bowen is very good at this, I've got to give credit there.

 

[Cheesewater]

I am still waiting for this objective crowd to say something about Phade's sexist comments.
Aren't you guys supposed to stand for what you believe in, regardless of who the other person is? I mean, we have clearly unbiased readers on this post who would have Bowen complaining pic as his signature. This is CLEARLY unbiased.

Changing the subject is a sure sign of the loser of an argument.

 

[Cheesewater]

Problem is, there are a list of admirers for the way Bowen plays defense. Coaches vote for All-D teams, and Bowen gets there year in and year out. I guess they just don't understand the game as much as people on arizonasportsfans.com doo.

There is also a list of complaints, concerns, and grievances...also from NBA players and coaches. No doubt Bowen plays good defense. Some of the best defense there is. He ALSO employs sneaky, cheap, potentially dangerous tactics. It's documented. It's not black and white.

 

[Phade]

I'll bet you've got a tortilla with Bowen's face on it in a glass case somewhere too.

LMAO

 

[Stout]

I love your signature line, Cheese.

 

[Stout]

Guys, the best way to win the argument is to remind yourself that it's already been won, step back, and read 'chang's comments with enjoyment. It's easy entertainment. Only then 'chang will realize that he isn't getting a rise out of anybody, and he'll go away.

'Chang, you have no grasp on reality, so like I said, you aren't drawing me out again. I explained it all to you, you didn't want to hear it, and you went to la-la land.

 

[ambchang_]

ambchang Bowen extends his leg into the area where a jumpshooter is going to land, while turning his head so it looks like he isn't aware of his foot. It isn't an accident. Maybe he discovered that it takes out the other player accidentally the first time it happened, but he seems to have too many accidents on purpose.

Whether you saying it is intentional or me saying that it is not is totally subjective, and I am not sure how you can so convincing saying that he does it on purpose, and could even track how his thought process evolves over time. But judging from all how it happens and the frequency of which it does (twice in the span of his 10+ year career), I have to say that if he is hurting people on purpose that way, he is doing a very poor job.

What is your explaination for the 2 jump kicks that have connected to a players face?

Of all the plays, that one is probably the easiest to say is an accident. It is not like the shooter is standing there and waiting to be jump kicked. Bowen was faked out of his shoes. I haven't seen the one in play when he was Miami (only seen photo), but the Szcerbiak one was obviously an accident. He couldn't do it again if he tried.

If that just happens, where are the other youtube videos of it just happening to other players playing defense?

Where are all the videos of Steve Nash rebounding? Of Tim Duncan setting screens? Of Jordan taking a breather? Those things happens, but nobody cares. No other defender gets scrutinized like that because Ray Allen, vince Carter and Isiah Thomas didn't cry about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPTp5SASPLg
First video I found on youtube typing in "NBA jumpshot". 1:10 mark, first jumpshot of the video. Yao Ming shot, Rasho moves in, exact same play.

 

[ambchang_]

How would you know whether he is doing it on purpose or not? I'll tell you how one would know: Is it the kind of move that someone would have to think about to make it happen? Meaning, is it an otherwise unnatural or unreasonable move? Yes. Those moves are on purpose and you are deluded if you think otherwise.

You have to think on purpose to move your legs? When you jump at an angle (into people), you have to spread your legs to maintain balance.

If a person is angled \, they would fall.

If Nash was not there, Bowen's pivot would have him facing at the very least, the baseline. Bounded on the left by the sideline, where is he going?

He was looking for his teammates? So is he now he is not facing the sideline like you first asserted?

Is Bell the same as Amare? "Wasn't much"...how much does it have to be? Again, just because it didn't injure Amare doesn't negate it's existance.

It means that it wasn't even something to be concerned about. Apparently, Amare agreed and said nothing about it afterwards.

No. For kicking at Paul. Twice. I can't believe I have to keep reminding you what happened.

ANd I can't believe I have to keep reminding you that he did NOT kick Paul.

It's definitely an opinion. But it means nothing to me when weighed against what I have seen with my own eyes and weighed against what OTHER MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE HAVE CONCLUDED.

Who concluded what? You mean the league? So why are Suns fans still whining about the Stoudemire and Diaw suspensions? Afterall, that was decided by OTHER MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE.

Wrong. Just watched a few. Iverson: Not jumping at him. Francis: Jumping straight up while turning to throw his leg/foot under Francis (this one is really unnatural...a smoking gun). Anthony Parker: Bowen is actually jumping AWAY from Parker in this one. I'll give you the Szczerbiak one, Bowen is definitely jumping at Wally in that one...of course it's so he can kick Wally in the face...

So this leaves Iverson and Francis.

Francis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdxXvkMB6gA What is so unnatural about that? In the previous post, I have showed Rasho Nesterovic (I think that's him) doing exactly the same to Yao Ming, and this is the first jump shot I found on the first video on youtube after typing "nba jumpshot".

Iverson: I really need you to repost this one, I couldn't find it again.

First off, that's not what Raja Bell said. Furthermore, I am not saying Bowen is dirty. His actions are. Yes, Van Gundy is obviously responding to something earlier in the interview/chat/whatever. Don't bother posting it though. It won't help you. The Van Gundy bit is useless to you.

So what was Raja Bell saying?
And I am having trouble interpreting your Bowen isn't dirty but his actions are. I hope we are not going to talk about his personal life vs. his basketball life. I have been arguing all along that other than the Ray Allen kick, the other incidents were mostly unintentional.

The Van Gundy bit was from an article, what chat are you talking about? He specifically said he doesn't think those plays were committed with malice, refering specifically to the Francis and Crawford plays. Did you even read the article?

You think you have shown it, but you haven't. You are seeing something few others see. It may be mental. Trust me. I have seen it and many others have seen it. To us (and the NBA), Bruce Bowen kicks at Chris Paul twice.

To me, he didn't. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Bowen moves away after the second kick attempt, the one where Paul flops. It's the first kick, the one that happens right on the left edge of the video, that appears to connect or come close to connecting. NOT THAT CONNECTING MATTERS.

So now he actually did NOT kick twice, or do you count moving away as a kick? Because you specifically said he kicked twice earlier on the thread (in fact, the previous paragraph), and now you said he is moving away.

The first "kick" was done while Bowen was turning around tracking the ball. Again, tell me how you can turn around 180 degrees without moving your knees.

True, you did take the time to pick the screencaps that you think support your claims. I just watched it again for the umpteenth time....

Bruce Bowen kicks at Chris Paul twice. Not trying to get free. Not trying to walk anywhere. And as for your "tracking the ball" I actually see Bowen turn his head toward the ball, stop, then kick Paul. He's not turning his whole body toward the ball and inadvertently kicking Paul. It looks as though he is actually looking away on purpose so he CAN kick Paul. Bowen is very good at this, I've got to give credit there.

You just said he was trying to move away the paragraph before! Man, clear this up for me, was Bowen moving away in the second "kick"? Bowen was looking for the ball when he turned around. You just continuously talk about Bowen kicking / hurting people on purpose while looking away and dismissing incidental contact. I just can't agree with you.

 

[ambchang_]

Changing the subject is a sure sign of the loser of an argument.

Of course this is an integral point of the argument. Much of your argument is based on me being a biased spurs fan, and yourself being an objective third party, and yet your actions have shown otherwise.

You may have just missed that, but then I won't be surprised that you choose to see what you want to see, not that it hasn't happened before.

 

[ambchang_]

LMAO

So you are now changing Cheesewater's quotes? This is just getting so low. You continue to outdo yourself.

BTW, any relevant arguments that you have? After almost 30 pages, I am still waiting for one from you.

 

[ambchang_]

Guys, the best way to win the argument is to remind yourself that it's already been won, step back, and read 'chang's comments with enjoyment. It's easy entertainment. Only then 'chang will realize that he isn't getting a rise out of anybody, and he'll go away.

'Chang, you have no grasp on reality, so like I said, you aren't drawing me out again. I explained it all to you, you didn't want to hear it, and you went to la-la land.

No, keep telling everyone that this is a winning or losing argument. Keep going around telling people that I haven't answered your points. I took the time to go through each and every one of your post since the CP3 incident, I would expect you to have at the dignity to come back and tell me which points I missed that was so integral of you "winning" the argument.

Please go ahead, I don't want to appear like I am picking and choosing points.

 

[Phade]

So you are now changing Cheesewater's quotes? This is just getting so low. You continue to outdo yourself.

BTW, any relevant arguments that you have? After almost 30 pages, I am still waiting for one from you.

http://arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1660405&postcount=420

and i'm not wasting my time on you anymore.. you are officially the worst basketball fan on the planet..

 

[nashman]

WOW!! Can't believe you guys are still arguing with this guy, talk about feeding the trolls.