MadCards Training Camp Observations Friday 7/26

[Jetstream Green]

I really like that KeeSean guy, oh wait I put him as my avatar a few weeks ago

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yes. All you have to do is look at the win/loss record over the last four seasons as Keim has accumulated more power to see why he should have more.

Four? Why cut off there? Fits your narrative better?

And nice straw man argument. Weak sauce.

 

[Hoodhero]

Haven't heard much about Haskins so decided to do quick browse of Redskins posts. Media talking about him having good day cause he called an audible!!!

Apparently Colt outplaying him so far according to most accounts. Redskins reddit also barely got any posts about him. Kyle definitely in his own stratosphere when it comes to Qb rookie expectations this year

 

[kerouac9]

Four? Why cut off there? Fits your narrative better?

And nice straw man argument. Weak sauce.

Go back as far as you want. Keim oversaw the dismantling of a title contender. Nice work.

10-6
11-5
13-3
[GM has to start doing his work picking the best players to keep around and building around them with free agent signings and savvy picks later in each round that have had time to develop. Let’s see what happens...]
7-8-1
8-8
3-13

Whomp whomp. Should we draw a line graph of what happened?

Krang. We were just a historically awful team and the most unwatchable maybe in NFL history. That was the roster Keim put together all on his lonesome. This offseason turned us into a laughingstock around the league.

And you’re accusing me of pushing a narrative? That’s RICH.

 

[daves]

Go back as far as you want. Keim oversaw the dismantling of a title contender. Nice work.

10-6
11-5
13-3
[GM has to start doing his work picking the best players to keep around and building around them with free agent signings and savvy picks later in each round that have had time to develop. Let’s see what happens...]
7-8-1
8-8
3-13

What's your basis for claiming that Keim only had to do his job three years after being named GM and voted executive of the year twice? Were Pro Football Talk and Sporting News ignorant of his lack of influence up to that point?

And you’re accusing me of pushing a narrative? That’s RICH.

Sure looks like it!

...dbs

 

[schutd]

It's certainly not worded like a "possible scenario" when you ask people to shut up and enjoy the ride because we finally have a QB.

We have no more an answer at QB than we did in training camp with Leinart or Rosen. Considering how well that worked? I'm skeptical. I'm gonna keep being skeptical until proven otherwise.

It seems like only K9 and a few others are doing anything besides drinking the koolaid, and if I start to do the same, I'm going to be crushed if we fail.


Go back and re read, dude. But that would spoil your narrative of everyone losing their minds and on some ride the nuts of murray train. You are SO BLINDED by your desire to be the supposed voice of reason, you cant even comprehend plain language right now.

 

[schutd]

Aren't message boards supposed to be a forum for critiquing the team? Aren't they supposed to be a congregation of fans with differing opinions? A place where you can debate something you are passionate about?

I am happy that you come here looking for a fan-boy circle-jerk. Great for you. I don't. I don't need a echo chamber as I am confident in my opinions without one. What I want and need and believe a message board is for, is people who will disagree or challenge my beliefs in an intelligent (mostly) manner. I want people who will point out my blind spots and am more than willing to do the same for others as well.

So please, next time you want to tell how I should be a fan, what I should want out of football, or how I should use a message board, don't. You do you, and let me do me.

Man, this board sucks now. Been a pleasure.

 

[PACardsFan]

I am really curious who you view whining and moaning about draft day.

It shouldn't be difficult to figure this out. I was perfectly fine debating the pros & cons of drafting Murray PRIOR to the draft. My problem is that those that criticized that direction then, just have not let up in their negativity as it applies to K1. Let's watch the kid play a season before we bash fellow fans for being 100% in. Isn't that what we afforded Rosen? Your definition of a sports forum can rightfully be different than others. And that's fine. I just think it's disgusting to refer to certain supporters of this team as part of a "circle-jerk".

 

[Solar7]

It shouldn't be difficult to figure this out. I was perfectly fine debating the pros & cons of drafting Murray PRIOR to the draft. My problem is that those that criticized that direction then, just have not let up in their negativity as it applies to K1. Let's watch the kid play a season before we bash fellow fans for being 100% in. Isn't that what we afforded Rosen? Your definition of a sports forum can rightfully be different than others. And that's fine. I just think it's disgusting to refer to certain supporters of this team as part of a "circle-jerk".

It's only a "circle-jerk" or however you want to phrase it when people start throwing out rhetoric like we're clearly better than last year, or "we FINALLY have a QB" without any games being played. Or asking if anyone could possibly think we were better off with Rosen.

Note that I'm not coming at anyone who is excited about the direction of the team or thinks we're improved. That's all well and good. It's when people start making foregone conclusions about this team's success or projects Kyler to be a top 5 QB with the best performance in rookie history that I have to speak up, or it's worthless for me to post anymore.

 

[Chopper0080]

Well...if you say there is more proof he is a bad GM....I'd point to the #1 indicator during his run as GM, the win loss columns.

Despite all of his mistakes, hes still probably the most successful executive in franchise history.

If you believe him, he didn't hire K2 with the idea of drafting K1. I believe that. His demeanor towards Rosen started to change around the combine, which fits the narrative that he had started looking at Murray by that point.

Hes made what sounds like a lot of introspective comments over the past 8 months or so. Comments about self scouting and learning from past mistakes. I hope it's true.

I did not like Graves, but to discount that he led us to a Super Bowl is probably underselling things. I guess I am starting to view Keim in the same lens. A guy who can make good moves, but not consistently enough to elevate the franchise.

In terms of this year, Keim has put all of his chips in. Hiring Kingsbury was unconventional. Drafting Murray at 1 after taking Rosen at 10 is unconventional. If those moves don't work out, this franchise is in the toilet even worse than it is now. Peterson, Jones, and DJ will be 3 years older and Fitz will be retired. If they do work (consistently 7 to 10 wins per season), Keim's gamble will have worked and he will get more time to grow and develop.

 

[Chopper0080]

Man, this board sucks now. Been a pleasure.

lol

 

[Chopper0080]

It shouldn't be difficult to figure this out. I was perfectly fine debating the pros & cons of drafting Murray PRIOR to the draft. My problem is that those that criticized that direction then, just have not let up in their negativity as it applies to K1. Let's watch the kid play a season before we bash fellow fans for being 100% in. Isn't that what we afforded Rosen? Your definition of a sports forum can rightfully be different than others. And that's fine. I just think it's disgusting to refer to certain supporters of this team as part of a "circle-jerk".

The same argument can be made for you.

My problem is that those that praised that direction then, just have not let up in their positivity as it applies to K1. Let's watch the kid play a season before we bash fellow fans for being 100% OUT.

(a certain trend of posts makes me feel the need to point out that while I am skeptical of Murray and whether he will ever be more than an average QB, I do hope I am wrong. I do want this team to be a winning franchise as a fan)

 

[PACardsFan]

It's only a "circle-jerk" or however you want to phrase it when people start throwing out rhetoric like we're clearly better than last year, or "we FINALLY have a QB" without any games being played. Or asking if anyone could possibly think we were better off with Rosen.

Note that I'm not coming at anyone who is excited about the direction of the team or thinks we're improved. That's all well and good. It's when people start making foregone conclusions about this team's success or projects Kyler to be a top 5 QB with the best performance in rookie history that I have to speak up, or it's worthless for me to post anymore.

The Murray fans on this board are enthusiastic about his prospects of leading this team in a direction that they seldom get to. You claim that you don't come at anyone who is excited about that prospect. You absolutely do!! You continuously rain on the positive emotions of those that THINK that Murray will be the answer. To date, there's past evidence (HS & College) to give fans hope that he can be great. There's no evidence to indicate that he won't be. My initial post said that the Murray naysayers will continue their incessant rant until his play will make you look foolish to continue to do so. I stand by that.

 

[PACardsFan]

The same argument can be made for you.

My problem is that those that praised that direction then, just have not let up in their positivity as it applies to K1. Let's watch the kid play a season before we bash fellow fans for being 100% OUT.

(a certain trend of posts makes me feel the need to point out that while I am skeptical of Murray and whether he will ever be more than an average QB, I do hope I am wrong. I do want this team to be a winning franchise as a fan)

You're 2nd paragraph is a$$ backwards. As a fan, you should be 100% in, until proven otherwise. You should never be 100% out until proven otherwise. That contradicts the term "fan". In America, you are innocent until proven guilty. You are not guilty until proven innocent. At this juncture last year, I was 100% in with Wilks/Rosen. When both significantly disappointed, I was OUT. If K1/K2 are EQUALLY as bad, my support will change. Until that happens, I'm 100% in.

 

[Solar7]

The Murray fans on this board are enthusiastic about his prospects of leading this team in a direction that they seldom get to. You claim that you don't come at anyone who is excited about that prospect. You absolutely do!! You continuously rain on the positive emotions of those that THINK that Murray will be the answer. To date, there's past evidence (HS & College) to give fans hope that he can be great. There's no evidence to indicate that he won't be. My initial post said that the Murray naysayers will continue their incessant rant until his play will make you look foolish to continue to do so. I stand by that.

Maybe you see it that way because almost all threads we interact in about Kyler are threads where you're so over the moon for him that we can't help but have conflict. You constantly say things like "no evidence he won't be successful" when the fact of the matter is that statistically most 1st round QBs aren't successful. And when I point out the things that give me pause, most of the hardcore Kyler fans just say "that doesn't matter."

It's not even a knock on Kyler as a player to say the odds are he won't make me look foolish. But hey, I was even defending him in another thread, saying I would view a top 15 season as a major success and be happy with it.

It's the extremes I can't stand.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Maybe you see it that way because almost all threads we interact in about Kyler are threads where you're so over the moon for him that we can't help but have conflict. You constantly say things like "no evidence he won't be successful" when the fact of the matter is that statistically most 1st round QBs aren't successful. And when I point out the things that give me pause, most of the hardcore Kyler fans just say "that doesn't matter."

It's not even a knock on Kyler as a player to say the odds are he won't make me look foolish. But hey, I was even defending him in another thread, saying I would view a top 15 season as a major success and be happy with it.

It's the extremes I can't stand.

The internet might not be the best place for you if you can't stand extreme takes.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

You're 2nd paragraph is a$$ backwards. As a fan, you should be 100% in, until proven otherwise. You should never be 100% out until proven otherwise. That contradicts the term "fan". In America, you are innocent until proven guilty. You are not guilty until proven innocent. At this juncture last year, I was 100% in with Wilks/Rosen. When both significantly disappointed, I was OUT. If K1/K2 are EQUALLY as bad, my support will change. Until that happens, I'm 100% in.

Being a fan is about rooting for the success of the team no matter what. You can absolutely be pessimistic about the direction of a team and still be a fan that roots for them to win. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[gimpy]

Over and over and over and.......

 

[Krangodnzr]

Maybe you see it that way because almost all threads we interact in about Kyler are threads where you're so over the moon for him that we can't help but have conflict. You constantly say things like "no evidence he won't be successful" when the fact of the matter is that statistically most 1st round QBs aren't successful. And when I point out the things that give me pause, most of the hardcore Kyler fans just say "that doesn't matter."

It's not even a knock on Kyler as a player to say the odds are he won't make me look foolish. But hey, I was even defending him in another thread, saying I would view a top 15 season as a major success and be happy with it.

It's the extremes I can't stand.

Bro you really seek to downgrade Murray and bring expectations down to the minimal level.

3000 yards passing???

 

[Solar7]

You're 2nd paragraph is a$$ backwards. As a fan, you should be 100% in, until proven otherwise. You should never be 100% out until proven otherwise. That contradicts the term "fan". In America, you are innocent until proven guilty. You are not guilty until proven innocent. At this juncture last year, I was 100% in with Wilks/Rosen. When both significantly disappointed, I was OUT. If K1/K2 are EQUALLY as bad, my support will change. Until that happens, I'm 100% in.

That's just your philosophy man.

Bro you really seek to downgrade Murray and bring expectations down to the minimal level.

3000 yards passing???

Hey, if my expectations to consider him a "success" are so low, you should be happy that he's going to shatter them, right? That means I'll jump on the bandwagon!

I just want to keep it real with expectations for a rookie.

 

[Garthshort]

Practice, this afternoon and a PS game a week from Thursday. Season starts in 41 days. All the arguing on this board reminds me of TC fights. Guys get tired of going up against each other, and arguments break out.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

You're 2nd paragraph is a$$ backwards. As a fan, you should be 100% in, until proven otherwise. You should never be 100% out until proven otherwise. That contradicts the term "fan". In America, you are innocent until proven guilty. You are not guilty until proven innocent. At this juncture last year, I was 100% in with Wilks/Rosen. When both significantly disappointed, I was OUT. If K1/K2 are EQUALLY as bad, my support will change. Until that happens, I'm 100% in.

That sounds like the perfect definition of a "fair weather" fan. 100% in when it's good and OUT when it starts going bad.
I follow/support this team win or lose. Just because I don't blindly support every move this organization makes doesn't mean I am not a fan.
And you are absolutely right that Murray should not be given any slack until he actually proves it on the field. There is plenty of evidence on why he may not be great (stature, experience, level of competition). Just because he was a great HS player and had one good year in college doesn't automatically make him great. The odds are against him. Everyone thinks he will be the next Russell Wilson. Wilson was an exception to the rule. I hope Murray turns out to be that caliber of player but we'll see.

 

[gimpy]

"There is plenty of evidence on why he may not be great (stature, experience, level of competition). Just because he was a great HS player and had one good year in college doesn't automatically make him great".

If that is not evidence that would not automatically make him great, then I don't know what would?

 

[kerouac9]

(a certain trend of posts makes me feel the need to point out that while I am skeptical of Murray and whether he will ever be more than an average QB, I do hope I am wrong. I do want this team to be a winning franchise as a fan)

I'm 100% with this.

You're 2nd paragraph is a$$ backwards. As a fan, you should be 100% in, until proven otherwise. You should never be 100% out until proven otherwise. That contradicts the term "fan". In America, you are innocent until proven guilty. You are not guilty until proven innocent. At this juncture last year, I was 100% in with Wilks/Rosen. When both significantly disappointed, I was OUT. If K1/K2 are EQUALLY as bad, my support will change. Until that happens, I'm 100% in.

Who are you to tell anyone here how to be a fan? Give me a break.

"There is plenty of evidence on why he may not be great (stature, experience, level of competition). Just because he was a great HS player and had one good year in college doesn't automatically make him great".

If that is not evidence that would not automatically make him great, then I don't know what would?

Usually, it's because most NFL prospects were great high school players, and most top draft picks have a good year or two in college.

There's no question that the available evidence suggests that Murray could be great in the NFL. The challenge is that there isn't much evidence available because the sample size is small and skewed by a bad conference and gimmick defense that has covered flaws in countless past prospects — including our current head coach!

 

[BigRedRage]

Over and over and over and.......

so dumb