Marc stein: Suns to court Mayo

[sunsfan88]

Wow...your analysis is spot on as usual. Ask Miami and OKC, obviously the two best teams in the NBA how important a good center is.

Keep watching film though, it's really boosted your NBA acumen.

At least we won't be subjected to your Gordon/Rivers fantasies anymore, now you can focus on your 8 team, 46 player trade scenarios.

Ok so you are telling me that you know more about basketball than the Portland and Indiana FOs?

I mean while they probably gone to college and other programs to learn about this business and had experience managing in the NBA, you probably do know more while being likely a high school drop out.

Big men are ALWAYS important in the NBA. No team in the past 15 or so years have won a title without a legit big man. Why the hell do you think Hibbert was just offered the max? Why the hell do you think Brook Lopez was just offered the max? Why the hell do you think DeAndre Jordan is making big $$? Why the hell do you think a guy with arguably the lowest IQ in basketball, Javale McGee is getting offered a contract of $50M+ ?

Hibbert is of course worth the max because he already showed tremendous potential and still improving. Miami had to constantly double team and Hibbert was the main reason that Indy even won some games vs them in the series.

But yea, of course all that is wrong because you certainly know more about basketball than Neil Olshey and Kevin Pritchard

The main reason I come on the ASFNs is for the pure comedy that posters like you present man...I just wanna say thank you for that and please keep it up

Big men in the NBA will always be the most important positions. Not necessarily the Center position because many teams have won without a great center. However, most of those teams had a legit PF playing next to that center.

I would say having one or the other at either big man position is pretty damn important since those players are harder to find. It seems like guards and tweeners are a dime a dozen in every draft.

 

[sunsfan88]

I wouldn't necessarily call center the most important position. I would call it the position with the least quality players right now (power forward is getting to be a close second).

Joe

I think that's fair. But that's reason as to why they command a lot more $$ than players at other positions.

 

[WildBB]

Yeah, I think that's how it works. I don't like it either. Should Gordon fail his physical it appears that NO would have the right to "unmatch" the offer sheet, at which point it would become a binding contract with Phoenix. Of course the Suns had their own opportunity to give Gordon a physical already so obviously they must have been satisfied with the results. But NO should have been required to perform its own physical before matching the contract.

This.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

People shouldn't confuse a lack of good centers with the importance of centers.

That won't ever change. That's why Greg Oden goes before Durant, Olowakandi over everyone else, Shaq. Anthony Davis, etc, and on and on. All things being equal the elite prospect center will ALWAYS go over elite prospects at other positions. They are just VERY rare and there probably isn't a elite Center in the league right now.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Ok so you are telling me that you know more about basketball than the Portland and Indiana FOs?

Exactly, NBA teams always make great decisions on paying FA's. Your logic is wonderful, per usual.

I mean while they probably gone to college and other programs to learn about this business and had experience managing in the NBA, you probably do know more while being likely a high school drop out.

Ha, your observational skills are amazingly keen. Funny that a kid like you would be talking about educational achievement, as someone who actually has a college degree, I wish you the best in achieving your goal of a high school diploma.

Big men are ALWAYS important in the NBA. No team in the past 15 or so years have won a title without a legit big man.

When you become an adult you'll realize that it's better to couch statements like this. Entertainingly enough, your theory is proven wrong as recently as this year. Neither the Heat nor OKC had a dominant big man, and they both made the finals. Point made.

Why the hell do you think Hibbert was just offered the max? Why the hell do you think Brook Lopez was just offered the max? Why the hell do you think DeAndre Jordan is making big $$? Why the hell do you think a guy with arguably the lowest IQ in basketball, Javale McGee is getting offered a contract of $50M+ ?

You may be a new NBA fan, but if you do some research, you'll find that there are literally dozens of NBA big men that get ridiculous contracts and don't live up to them. In fact, you can probably find 5 bad contracts for every good NBA FA contract. Are you seriously unaware of this?

Hibbert is of course worth the max because he already showed tremendous potential and still improving.

To assert that Hibbert is "of course" worth the max is ridiculous. He may grow into a max player, but he sure as hell isn't there yet.

"Over the past three years, Hibbert’s scoring numbers have only gone up from 11.7 to 12.8 points per game. While he is still only 25, somebody being paid $14.5 million per year should at least be showing steady improvement. Instead, Hibbert is shooting almost the same percentage as his sophomore season, playing five more minutes and only averaging one more point per game.

The one area that Hibbert has shown great improvement in is rebounding. In the past three years, his rebounds per game have gone from 5.7 to 7.5 to 8.8 this last season. Those are promising numbers, but they are likely to stop improving soon. Hibbert simply does not play like a player who is going to be grabbing over 10 rebounds per game.

Hibbert has also improved over the last several years in blocks, but not by much. He has gone from 1.6 per game to 2.0 per game over the last three seasons. That can be explained by the increase in playing time.

The most important thing to recognize is that Hibbert only averaged 12.8 points and 8.8 rebounds per game. Those numbers don’t justify him being paid $14.5 million per year. He seems to have peaked offensively, and while his rebounding continues to improve, a team should only spend so much money on a decent rebounder who can’t put many points on the board."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1248907-nba-free-agency-why-roy-hibbert-isnt-worth-a-max-contract

But yea, of course all that is wrong because you certainly know more about basketball than Neil Olshey and Kevin Pritchard

This is the dumbest and most puerile argument made on message boards. Please find me one example of where I said I know more about basketball than either. Oh, of course you can't. More baseless stupidity, par for the course with you.

The main reason I come on the ASFNs is for the pure comedy that posters like you present man...I just wanna say thank you for that and please keep it up

Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[mojorizen7]

Gortat/Frye/Scola...

The Suns are gonna need a bigger boat.

 

[sunsfan88]

Exactly, NBA teams always make great decisions on paying FA's. Your logic is wonderful, per usual.



Ha, your observational skills are amazingly keen. Funny that a kid like you would be talking about educational achievement, as someone who actually has a college degree, I wish you the best in achieving your goal of a high school diploma.





When you become an adult you'll realize that it's better to couch statements like this. Entertainingly enough, your theory is proven wrong as recently as this year. Neither the Heat nor OKC had a dominant big man, and they both made the finals. Point made.




You may be a new NBA fan, but if you do some research, you'll find that there are literally dozens of NBA big men that get ridiculous contracts and don't live up to them. In fact, you can probably find 5 bad contracts for every good NBA FA contract. Are you seriously unaware of this?



To assert that Hibbert is "of course" worth the max is ridiculous. He may grow into a max player, but he sure as hell isn't there yet.

"Over the past three years, Hibbert’s scoring numbers have only gone up from 11.7 to 12.8 points per game. While he is still only 25, somebody being paid $14.5 million per year should at least be showing steady improvement. Instead, Hibbert is shooting almost the same percentage as his sophomore season, playing five more minutes and only averaging one more point per game.

The one area that Hibbert has shown great improvement in is rebounding. In the past three years, his rebounds per game have gone from 5.7 to 7.5 to 8.8 this last season. Those are promising numbers, but they are likely to stop improving soon. Hibbert simply does not play like a player who is going to be grabbing over 10 rebounds per game.

Hibbert has also improved over the last several years in blocks, but not by much. He has gone from 1.6 per game to 2.0 per game over the last three seasons. That can be explained by the increase in playing time.

The most important thing to recognize is that Hibbert only averaged 12.8 points and 8.8 rebounds per game. Those numbers don’t justify him being paid $14.5 million per year. He seems to have peaked offensively, and while his rebounding continues to improve, a team should only spend so much money on a decent rebounder who can’t put many points on the board."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1248907-nba-free-agency-why-roy-hibbert-isnt-worth-a-max-contract




This is the dumbest and most puerile argument made on message boards. Please find me one example of where I said I know more about basketball than either. Oh, of course you can't. More baseless stupidity, par for the course with you.



Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.

Citing Bleacher Report isn't exactly credible so not helping your case here.

And my goal of earning a high school diploma? Guess my life has been complete for the past 6 years.

What the hell don't you understand? Centers get paid more than ANY other position. Why don't you read what others in this thread have been saying? Stop being so narrow minded and open up man.

An above average big man will get paid more than a good wing player. That's not rocket science. Productive, young, durable big men are hard to find and important for a team's success.

And Miami and OKC may not have any "dominant" big men but I never said they did. Also why the hell are you mentioning OKC? I said teams who have won a title and you may have missed the Finals but OKC did not win. Also go look up Chris Bosh, he is definitely a legit big man and the Heat suffered a lot during this post season when he was out with an injury.

If you still don't understand, I suggest you read what the other posters have been trying to tell you in this thread.

 

[Folster]

John Gambadoro ‏@Gambo620 OJ Mayo came to town but Suns made no contract offer. He wants 8 mill + a year and for Phx to be interested that price has to come down.

Good on the Suns.

https://twitter.com/Gambo620

John Gambadoro ‏@Gambo620 Suns still interested in bringing back Shannon Brown and have some interest in Courtney Lee as well

Meh. Hopefully for one year deals.

 

[SweetD]

Ya 8 Mill a year is to much. What teams still have cap space to offer him anything around that amount? Rockets (To many SG, Raptors if NY matches Fields if not no, Hawks maybe, Bobcats?)

 

[NashDishesDimes]

Ya 8 Mill a year is to much. What teams still have cap space to offer him anything around that amount? Rockets (To many SG, Raptors if NY matches Fields if not no, Hawks maybe, Bobcats?)

Toronto got fields, NY didnt match. It was reported that PHX, LA, DAL, CHI, and bobcats had interest in Mayo. The good thing is, yes, i dont think any of those teams can afford 8 mil per. Maybe the bobcats can but no way he wants to go there..

 

[elindholm]

The Suns have plenty of players as it is now.

Gortat/Frye (if not also Lopez)
Scola/Beasley or Morris
Dudley/Morris or Beasley
?
Dragic/Marshall/Telfair

SG is a gaping hole, but at this point it's not worth filling it with a high-salary player. Just get a scrub or two for cheap and call it a summer.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns have plenty of players as it is now.

Gortat/Frye (if not also Lopez)
Scola/Beasley or Morris
Dudley/Morris or Beasley
?
Dragic/Marshall/Telfair

SG is a gaping hole, but at this point it's not worth filling it with a high-salary player. Just get a scrub or two for cheap and call it a summer.

I don't have anything specific in mind but it appears the Suns with their CAP space and draft picks might be in position to help another team pull off a major trade and reap the benefits if they keep their powder dry.

 

[Phrazbit]

Good on the Suns.



Meh. Hopefully for one year deals.

Wow! Good for them.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't have anything specific in mind but it appears the Suns with their CAP space and draft picks might be in position to help another team pull off a major trade and reap the benefits if they keep their powder dry.

YES! This is what I am talking about. Being a facilitator in trades and of other teams cap space is an excellent method of acquiring assets.

 

[devilalum]

Dudley and Dragic can both play a little SG. Throw in Brown on a reasonable contract and they're done.

If Mayo comes back to earth before they sign Brown...

 

[Mainstreet]

YES! This is what I am talking about. Being a facilitator in trades and of other teams cap space is an excellent method of acquiring assets.

It's exciting to see the Suns as a possible mover and shaker in a good way... to not reach but take what comes to them as spinoffs as other teams come to them to make trades and signings possible while acquiring more assets.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Citing Bleacher Report isn't exactly credible so not helping your case here.

And my goal of earning a high school diploma? Guess my life has been complete for the past 6 years.

What the hell don't you understand? Centers get paid more than ANY other position. Why don't you read what others in this thread have been saying? Stop being so narrow minded and open up man.

An above average big man will get paid more than a good wing player. That's not rocket science. Productive, young, durable big men are hard to find and important for a team's success.

And Miami and OKC may not have any "dominant" big men but I never said they did. Also why the hell are you mentioning OKC? I said teams who have won a title and you may have missed the Finals but OKC did not win. Also go look up Chris Bosh, he is definitely a legit big man and the Heat suffered a lot during this post season when he was out with an injury.

If you still don't understand, I suggest you read what the other posters have been trying to tell you in this thread.

It's pointless to discuss things like this with you when you fail to respond to one thing I say, and just repeat the same thing you said before.

If you respond to what was actually said, I'll be glad to respond in kind.

 

[Griffin]

If Mayo is too expensive, why not just give Dudley the starting SG spot and sign someone cheap to come off the bench. I much rather have Dudley starting than a player like Lee. I think, given the new makeup of this team, Dudley has earned a shot at being in the starting lineup. Aside from Melo (who himself came off the bench last two years) there aren't any starter-caliber SG's still available.

 

[95pro]

If Mayo is too expensive, why not just give Dudley the starting SG spot and sign someone cheap to come off the bench. I much rather have Dudley starting than a player like Lee. I think, given the new makeup of this team, Dudley has earned a shot at being in the starting lineup. Aside from Melo (who himself came off the bench last two years) there aren't any starter-caliber SG's still available.

duds earned that spot last year, iirc he was named a starter at the beginning of the season. but his numbers indicated he much better coming off the bench than starting

 

[KloD]

Ya 8 Mill a year is to much. What teams still have cap space to offer him anything around that amount? Rockets (To many SG, Raptors if NY matches Fields if not no, Hawks maybe, Bobcats?)

A few teams have the $5m exception, but only the Suns and Cavs have more to offer. I guess you could throw in the Blazers, but if they match T-Wolves offer for Batum they will have nothing left.

Mayo doesn't seem to make sense for the Cavs, so I can't see anywhere for Mayo to go for anything close to $8m a year even if someone wanted to pay that unless a team amnesties someone in the next few days.

I would give him the same deal as Beasley. Nothing more. It's seemingly the best offer he's going to get and the best chance for minutes out there. I imagine he'll come down to earth and will end up playing for the Suns.

EDIT: Of course if Blazers match offer for Batum, T-Wolves will have lots of room too. They already have a few SG, but who knows their thinking?

 

[Divide Et Impera]

I'd give him up to Dragic's deal:

4 years, $30 million = $7.5 million per year

$1 million All Star bonus per year

If Mayo made the All Star squad, he earned that $8.5 million, period. Same with Dragic....

 

[Folster]

Mayo goes to Dallas:

OJ Mayo ‏@JuiceMayo32 I will be signing with dallas! ‪#Mavsnation

I didn't think the Mavs had any cap room after Kaman, Brand, and Collison

 

[elindholm]

Mayo goes to Dallas:


I didn't think the Mavs had any cap room after Kaman, Brand, and Collison

MLE?

 

[Folster]

MLE?

They had cap space this summer. It's my understanding that you can only use one or the other. I think I recall reading that Dallas actually had about an amount of cap space remaining roughly equal to the MLE. I would be surprised if he signed for that amount.

 

[Folster]

From that Mr. Orng guy:

Mr.ORNG ‏@PHXMRORNG

OJ is out and @shannonbrown is the main target now! 4 years with an option on the 5th, potentially. #Suns

Barf!