Marshall is a Dolphin

[Phrazbit]

... thats a bummer.

Jefferson got butchered last year on a regular basis. I think he was the biggest hole in the entire D, especially before Marshall started take a huge chunk of his snaps.

And unlike some of you, the Tolar I remember got a ton of tackles because he gave up 15 yard catches like they were going out of style.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

That was an easy contract to match/out bid. Obviously the Cards felt like Marshall was easily replaceable.

$5.3 M for your nickel corner/part time stater isn't EASY to match. I like Marshall, but I can see where the Cards couldn't match. I'm not sure they feel he's easily replaceable. We need to focus on the OL in Free Agency, and hope to hit on another lower level FA like we did with Marshall last year.

 

[Darkside]

... thats a bummer.

Jefferson got butchered last year on a regular basis. I think he was the biggest hole in the entire D, especially before Marshall started take a huge chunk of his snaps.

And unlike some of you, the Tolar I remember got a ton of tackles because he gave up 15 yard catches like they were going out of style.

I totally agree with you, I'd give up Toler and Jefferson before letting go of Marshall, that's the truth. I thought Marshall played well for us, much better than either of those two. I just really don't think it was avoidable if we're trying to sign Manning.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Too bad he's gone. For the price I guess they just figured Toler being back will make it ok.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

That was an easy contract to match/out bid. Obviously the Cards felt like Marshall was easily replaceable.

I'll take the $$$ and invest it in a number 2 receiver.

 

[Jasper]

This is how you recruit, you never let the player leave the premises without signing on the dotted line. It sucks we lost Marshall but we can't pay that much money for him. That is like DD money and salary. 3m maybe 4m tops for a 2/3 corner. I was expecting 2m. I think the CB market has more demand than supply. Corners today are way overpaid. Look how much the Rams paid for Finnegan. I think we can make another 2/3 corner in Horton's system. Its not like Marshall was highly recruited before he came, wasn't he like the worst starting corner in the league before he came here?

 

[CardsFan88]

Matching that would not of been so bad, but it is a significant amount for a nickle cornerback who isn't very good at coverage. But if he could cover he'd be making a helluva lot more.

He brought the physicality and tackling we've sorely lacked from our corners. Sucks to see him leave. He was part of the reason our defense stiffened up and performed well.

At least this probably frees up some money we can spend elsewhere. But also creates another hole.

 

[Phrazbit]

I totally agree with you, I'd give up Toler and Jefferson before letting go of Marshall, that's the truth. I thought Marshall played well for us, much better than either of those two. I just really don't think it was avoidable if we're trying to sign Manning.

as would I. Marshall's emergence was one of the biggest factors in the defenses domination in the 2nd half of the season.

Jefferson and Tolar were replacement level players. Especially Jefferson, for all the credit he gets for being an undrafted free agent... as near as I could tell he looked a lot like what one would expect an undrafted free agent to look like.

 

[Darkside]

This is how you recruit, you never let the player leave the premises without signing on the dotted line. It sucks we lost Marshall but we can't pay that much money for him. That is like DD money and salary. 3m maybe 4m tops for a 2/3 corner. I was expecting 2m. I think the CB market has more demand than supply. Corners today are way overpaid. Look how much the Rams paid for Finnegan. I think we can make another 2/3 corner in Horton's system. Its not like Marshall was highly recruited before he came, wasn't he like the worst starting corner in the league before he came here?

Agree to some extent about corners being overpaid. But from their perspective, this is a passing league; you're going to lose more games passing than any other way. They had a stat on Sirius talking about teams without a pro-bowl QB VS teams with a pro-bowl QB, and the record was 19 wins for the teams without one VS something like 89 wins with a pro-bowl QB.

The good or great QB's entering this league every year is driving up the price of CB's, even average ones. They're a commodity you can't do without.

They were even saying LBer's were over-rated to a large extent nowdays. You can get away with average ones, even in a 3-4. But you can't get away with bad corners, you'll just lose repeatedly against pro-bowl QB's or even good/borderline QB's.

 

[PJ1]

... thats a bummer.

Jefferson got butchered last year on a regular basis. I think he was the biggest hole in the entire D, especially before Marshall started take a huge chunk of his snaps.

And unlike some of you, the Tolar I remember got a ton of tackles because he gave up 15 yard catches like they were going out of style.

I have similar memories.

 

[PJ1]

Agree to some extent about corners being overpaid. But from their perspective, this is a passing league; you're going to lose more games passing than any other way. They had a stat on Sirius talking about teams without a pro-bowl QB VS teams with a pro-bowl QB, and the record was 19 wins for the teams without one VS something like 89 wins with a pro-bowl QB.

The good or great QB's entering this league every year is driving up the price of CB's, even average ones. They're a commodity you can't do without.

They were even saying LBer's were over-rated to a large extent nowdays. You can get away with average ones, even in a 3-4. But you can't get away with bad corners, you'll just lose repeatedly against pro-bowl QB's or even good/borderline QB's.

Can't have enough good corners. Any good defensive coordinator will tell you that.

 

[Darkside]

as would I. Marshall's emergence was one of the biggest factors in the defenses domination in the 2nd half of the season.

Jefferson and Tolar were replacement level players. Especially Jefferson, for all the credit he gets for being an undrafted free agent... as near as I could tell he looked a lot like what one would expect an undrafted free agent to look like.

Again, I totally agree. Marshall fit Horton's scheme perfectly. I posted earlier that the consistent, hard-nosed and physical guys don't get a lot of credit because they aren't flashy, but our defense as a whole wasn't flashy. We created very few turnovers. But we made teams march down the field in small-medium chunks all game long. Marshall was perfect for that. He had good, not great, but good cover technique and brought his man down hard. He could play the run and did so, and brought his man down. He fit so perfectly in Horton's scheme. The other two, Toler, and Jefferson, are the antithesis of a Horton scheme.

It's a loss for us, no other way to put it, but if we want Peyton and still have hope then that's what they have to do. There's no other way to pay him. It wasn't even that much, but it was more than we could pay.

Marshall is a good player, better than Toler and Jefferson.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

... thats a bummer.

Jefferson got butchered last year on a regular basis. I think he was the biggest hole in the entire D, especially before Marshall started take a huge chunk of his snaps.

And unlike some of you, the Tolar I remember got a ton of tackles because he gave up 15 yard catches like they were going out of style.

Consider the scheme then and what Horton expects now. Tolar is an aggressive tackler.

 

[az1965]

What anybody sees in AJ Jefferson is beyond me. He was abused repeatedly last year.

Jefferson is useless. We need a corner now. Marshall was out of the price range $16 million with $6 million guaranteed.

 

[az1965]

Guarantee we fill the void with some scrub nobody

Sounds like AJ Jefferson...

 

[Cardiac]

Sorry to see Marshall leave but I pretty much expected it. Teams overpay CB's a lot and my only concern about Toller is that he is coming off a knee injury. AJ Jefferson played like an UDFA but that doesn't mean he won't improve. I some flashes from the kid.

Improve the pass rush and we are fine. Improve the run D from the front 7 and we are fine. Toler and or AJ progress and we are fine.

 

[Waysouth]

Maybe we look at Tracy Porter or at least William Gay. Then double up with Omar Bolden in like the 5th round.

 

[Duckjake]

as would I. Marshall's emergence was one of the biggest factors in the defenses domination in the 2nd half of the season.

Jefferson and Toler were replacement level players. Especially Jefferson, for all the credit he gets for being an undrafted free agent... as near as I could tell he looked a lot like what one would expect an undrafted free agent to look like.

Greg hasn't played for Horton yet and was in only his 2nd season out of some ridiculous small college playing for Billy Davis in 2010. He's sort of the Skelator of the defense. Or maybe more similar to Andre Roberts also from a small school who really didn't start to play well until the end of his 2nd season.

I hate to say this but I'm going to wait and see what Horton can do with Toler.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'll take the $$$ and invest it in a number 2 receiver.

that's great, but there aren't any number 2 wrs out there right now, are there? most of those guys have been signed.

that sucks. 5.3 mill per was well worth it for Marshall who you know played well and got the system, as opposed to counting on a guy who didn't show much two years ago and is now coming off an ACL injury... 0h and his back up is atrocious.

 

[overseascardfan]

Maybe ARZ looks at Dre Kirkpatrick at #13.

 

[Phrazbit]

Maybe ARZ looks at Dre Kirkpatrick at #13.

I had been saying that drafting a corner in the 1st for the 3rd time in 4 years would make me wanna puke. But watching Tolar and Jefferson taking turns getting abused seems more nauseating.

 

[Duckjake]

I had been saying that drafting a corner in the 1st for the 3rd time in 4 years would make me wanna puke. But watching Tolar and Jefferson taking turns getting abused seems more nauseating.

Wouldn't that be the 3rd time in 5 years or drafts if you prefer? Considering that most players don't stay in Arizona more than 4-5 years that's not too many as far as I'm concerned.

2008-DRC
2009-Beanie
2010-Big Dan
2011-Peterson
2012-Kirkpatrick

 

[Phrazbit]

Wouldn't that be the 3rd time in 5 years or drafts if you prefer? Considering that most players don't stay in Arizona more than 4-5 years that's not too many as far as I'm concerned.

2008-DRC
2009-Beanie
2010-Big Dan
2011-Peterson
2012-Kirkpatrick

Ah yes, my mistake. I had DRC and Beanie reversed.

 

[az1965]

It seems like Cardinals words and actions did not match considering Marshall... he was touted by Horton as last year's defensive MVP. Whisenhunt called him a verstile back who could play outside, inside, and even free safety when Rhodes went out.

We are now in tough situation as far as CB are considered. Marshall would have been #2 had he stayed with Cardinals, IMO. Toler is coming from ACL and even the year before, I thought he played average.

 

[Lagerfilled]

We'll be just fine at corner folks. Everyone needs to chill. We're set on one side with PP and Toler will be just fine by the start of the season. Let's not forget we have Jeffereson and we also brought in some other young guys last year in Crezdon Butler and Korey Lindsey. Butler is a Horton disciple from his time in Pittsburgh, so he can definitely tackle and play zone. Lindsey has even more upside once he gets a full offseason and some reps against NFL wideouts. I do think we will bring in someone like William Gay or even draft someone in the later rounds for competition.

Take a deep breath. Secondary is the least of our concerns.