Matt leinart draft prediction

[clif]

Are you talking about what Matt Leinart did or what USC did? He's only been starting for 2 years I think. As far as his numbers, I think this year it's been very evident that the o-line and rb's are what makes USC the dominant team that it is. Leinart may be prototypical but I didn't see him carry the offense at all this year. Everytime USC tried to feature the passing game, the opposition would catch up or take the lead. Then in the second half, White and Bush would take over and Leinart would start throwing the long handoffs that, at least this year, are about all he's successful at throwing on a regular basis. If you put Leinart behind Arizona's line or one like it, it won't be pretty (when you consider the signing bonus, draft position and possible trades it took to get him.)

Chances are the Cards won't be anywhere near to get him, but again calling him a choker and diminishing his skills and accomplishments based on the players around him is a pretty weak arguement IMO.

 

[Russ Smith]

Are you talking about what Matt Leinart did or what USC did? He's only been starting for 2 years I think. As far as his numbers, I think this year it's been very evident that the o-line and rb's are what makes USC the dominant team that it is. Leinart may be prototypical but I didn't see him carry the offense at all this year. Everytime USC tried to feature the passing game, the opposition would catch up or take the lead. Then in the second half, White and Bush would take over and Leinart would start throwing the long handoffs that, at least this year, are about all he's successful at throwing on a regular basis. If you put Leinart behind Arizona's line or one like it, it won't be pretty (when you consider the signing bonus, draft position and possible trades it took to get him.)

Leinart started 3 years at USC.

If you're right he'll be bagging groceries in a few years anyways, waiting to be discovered.

 

[moklerman]

If you're right he'll be bagging groceries in a few years anyways, waiting to be discovered.

You're so clever. How many playoff games have the Cardinals ever won again? Kurt Warner-6 Cardinals 1. Please stop.

The thing about Leinart, all of this year, was I kept waiting to see the Heisman winner. Each game I would be waiting for him to make a few throws that just screamed "best qb in college football" and they didn't happen. Last night just encapsulated the whole season. When USC put the ball in Leinart's hands to control the game, it didn't happen. They always had to go back to Bush and White.

Maybe he'll improve, but I wouldn't take that chance with a high pick and a ton of money.

 

[Russ Smith]

You're so clever. How many playoff games have the Cardinals ever won again? Kurt Warner-6 Cardinals 1. Please stop.

The thing about Leinart, all of this year, was I kept waiting to see the Heisman winner. Each game I would be waiting for him to make a few throws that just screamed "best qb in college football" and they didn't happen. Last night just encapsulated the whole season. When USC put the ball in Leinart's hands to control the game, it didn't happen. They always had to go back to Bush and White.

Maybe he'll improve, but I wouldn't take that chance with a high pick and a ton of money.

Leinart at USC is exactly Warner with the Rams. Very good QB, smart, accurate, with a great group of WR's and a great RB and a system that frequently leaves him in the pocket taking hits in exchange for completing balls downfield.

You can't worship Warner for doing that and nitpick Leinart for doing the same thing.

Matt doesn't have a cannon for an arm, he's very intelligent, very accurate. and not afraid to take a hit to get the ball off. The problem I see is he's taking a lot of hits that seem to this year be impacting him. There's a story on ESPN from a guy who ran into Young and Leinart after the game near the locker room and he said even then, Leinart was "glassy eyed". That's unusual for a college QB you usually don't worry about guys being "punch drunk" until they're closer to Warner's age.

As for going back to Bush and white, why in the world do you think Texas was playing at times 7 DB's last night? You don't think maybe they wanted to keep Leinart from throwing downfield and figured the speed would contain Bush? That's why WHite went nuts, some of those LB's he was running over are converted DB's. Texas' DC started that a couple of years ago to get faster, specifically to match up with Oklahoma and jason white. That's why Texas' run defense has been questioned the last 2 years, big DL, very small LB's.

Leinart threw for 350, he made some bad throws, he got his bell run sometimes and he clearly made mistakes like that last play of the game, but it's not like he didn't spike the ball to stop the clock or something like that, he just tried to make a play.

This funny I started the thread to explain why I think Leinart won't be the first QB picked and now I'm defending him against a guy whose favorite player is an older, right handed, carbon copy of Leinart.

 

[moklerman]

Well Russ, I guess you're just trying to prove my points. What round was Warner drafted in? Okay, if you think Leinart and Warner are so similar you completely agree that he should NOT be an overpriced first rounder. Thanks, I appreciate your support.

Let's just lump all your Warner insults into one response: You're a CARDINALS fan! You have no right to "try" and insult a super bowl winning, 2 time MVP. Warner will always have those things so until someone on the Cardinals even get's close please stop with your crapola. If you can't make a point without trying to insult me or my favorite current player, then don't bother trying. It won't work.

 

[clif]

You're so clever. How many playoff games have the Cardinals ever won again? Kurt Warner-6 Cardinals 1. Please stop.

The thing about Leinart, all of this year, was I kept waiting to see the Heisman winner. Each game I would be waiting for him to make a few throws that just screamed "best qb in college football" and they didn't happen. Last night just encapsulated the whole season. When USC put the ball in Leinart's hands to control the game, it didn't happen. They always had to go back to Bush and White.

Maybe he'll improve, but I wouldn't take that chance with a high pick and a ton of money.

BUt that's just it. He doesn't need to make a throw that screams "best qb in college football". It wasn't a part of their offense. That doesn't mean he can't it just wasn't nescessary.

Also I would argue that in fact he did make the throw that screams "best qb in college football". Do you remember the 4th and 9 pass against Notre Dame? How late in the game if he had not complete that pass game would have been over? Did you see the pinpoint accuracy on that play? Tell me how many guys make that throw in that situation?

How about that throw to the FB last night on their first TD drive? Come on...

 

[moklerman]

That doesn't mean he can't it just wasn't nescessary.

I didn't say he didn't "attempt" the throws. He consistantly missed on downfield throws and deep balls. I'm not focusing just on last night, it's been all year. I just haven't seen him execute the type of throws that are going to have to be made for a poor NFL team.

Yes, I do remember the Notre Dame game throw. As a matter of fact, that was the first time all year I can remember him coming up big on a downfield throw like that.

Look, I'm not saying he won't make it at all in the NFL but I really don't think he's a top pick. There's just not enough for me to say that he's simply benefitted from being behind the BEST o-line in college with two first round rb's in the backfield.

How about that throw to the FB last night on their first TD drive? Come on...

I didn't see any of the first half, just listened on radio. The second half full of dump off's and screen's followed by bad throws on the final two drives when it really mattered are what stick in my mind.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well Russ, I guess you're just trying to prove my points. What round was Warner drafted in? Okay, if you think Leinart and Warner are so similar you completely agree that he should NOT be an overpriced first rounder. Thanks, I appreciate your support.

Let's just lump all your Warner insults into one response: You're a CARDINALS fan! You have no right to "try" and insult a super bowl winning, 2 time MVP. Warner will always have those things so until someone on the Cardinals even get's close please stop with your crapola. If you can't make a point without trying to insult me or my favorite current player, then don't bother trying. It won't work.

you gotta be kidding you call Leinart a choker and then complain about an "insult" of Warner? I didn't insult Warner at all I just pointed out that even he lacked the very things you're saying Leinart lacks.

Draft status is irrelevant, totally different backgrounds. Leinart was VERY highly recruited out of HS, he was a phenom athlete, he was considered one of the best baseball prospects in Southern Cal as a pitcher until he hurt his arm in junior high and had shoulder surgery. Then in HS he sat out a year of football to let his shoulder heal and then had a phenomenal career. The problem was not long after he enrolled at USC, Palmer put it all together. USC also signed the top QB recruit in the country, John David Booty, and let him enroll early so he'd be ready to play next year and challenge Leinart after Palmer graduated. and Leinart did so well they redshirted Booty and he's barely played. This year they have top QB recruit in the country Mark Sanchez sitting on the bench as a frosh too.

If your point is great QB's don't have to be first round picks I agree, but there is a reason teams covet QB's and draft them high, they're hard to find. The reason Warner is such a great story, and by the way I LIKE Warner, is he came from nowhere and made the best of his chance. If that were common, Warner wouldn't be such a great story.

All i'm saying is you're being hypocritical you're blasting Leinart for lacking the very things Warner lacks now, arm strength and athleticism.

I said it early this year and I still believe it, Leinart could step in on this team next year and do pretty well, not saying he'll be like Marino's rookie year or Big Ben's, but Matt Leinart is MENTALLY way ahead of the normal rookie QB, this is not Alex "terrified to be on the field" Smith. All his problems are related to health.

I think Leinart could come in next year and be better than Josh almost immediately. I think by year 2 he'll be just as good as Warner, and 12-13 years younger. I just think the injury problems are going to continue with him and at his age that's a bit scary because that usually isn't the case with an incoming rookie.

 

[Pariah]

You're a CARDINALS fan! You have no right to "try" and insult a super bowl winning, 2 time MVP.

No? We're second class citizens with fewer rights that Kurt Warner fans?

Does Molker remind anyone of This_Guy with a better idol?

 

[moklerman]

I think Leinart could come in next year and be better than Josh almost immediately. I think by year 2 he'll be just as good as Warner, and 12-13 years younger. I just think the injury problems are going to continue with him and at his age that's a bit scary because that usually isn't the case with an incoming rookie.

I think you definitely have a higher opinion of what a college qb's worth and ability is. I'm not sold on Young, but I would take a flier on him in the first round before a guy like Leinart. Young's got unknown potential while Leinart's about as good as he's going to get. However, in the NFL he's not going to have the fluffy soft division, surrounding support and protection. Yes, he's been in a pro style offense but that doesn't mean he's been competing against pro style defenses. I just think his value is inflated right now because of his team's success and Leinart didn't look anything like the Heisman winner from last year for most of this year.

I don't think I'm being hypocritical in this regard either. I don't know of too many situations that I'd draft a qb in the first round at all and a guy like Warner, who just because he's my favorite player doesn't mean I think he's the best qb ever, shouldn't be taken in the first round. O-line and defense are the best way to go for just about any team.

So many have pointed to a "franchise qb" as the solution but even the creme de la creme of 1st round qb's ever-Peyton Manning has only translated into 1 or 2 playoff wins for the team.

 

[CardinalLaw]

Anyone who thinks Lienhart or Young won't be successful in the NFL is senial. Are they the next Hall of Famers, who knows. But neither is gonna bust. End of Story. If we don't atleast see what it would take to get one, we are stupid.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think you definitely have a higher opinion of what a college qb's worth and ability is. I'm not sold on Young, but I would take a flier on him in the first round before a guy like Leinart. Young's got unknown potential while Leinart's about as good as he's going to get. However, in the NFL he's not going to have the fluffy soft division, surrounding support and protection. Yes, he's been in a pro style offense but that doesn't mean he's been competing against pro style defenses. I just think his value is inflated right now because of his team's success and Leinart didn't look anything like the Heisman winner from last year for most of this year.

I don't think I'm being hypocritical in this regard either. I don't know of too many situations that I'd draft a qb in the first round at all and a guy like Warner, who just because he's my favorite player doesn't mean I think he's the best qb ever, shouldn't be taken in the first round. O-line and defense are the best way to go for just about any team.

So many have pointed to a "franchise qb" as the solution but even the creme de la creme of 1st round qb's ever-Peyton Manning has only translated into 1 or 2 playoff wins for the team.

Pete Carroll was an NFL DC and an NFL head coach, he says Leinart will be a great pro QB.

We are talking about Leinart as a Card, not Leinart in Houston or SF. AS a Card he'll have Boldin, Fitzgerald and the #1 (yardage wise) passing offense in the NFL. And HOPEFULLY a better ol since Denny said that was a priority in FA.

So IF the Cards somehow got Leinart, he wouldn't be the typical high draft pick QB on a lousy team with nothing around him, like Alex Smith. He'd be a very polished kid who played in tons of big games in college, for an NFL savvy
head coach, an OC now in the NFL, in a pro style offense. He's been audibling freely for 2 years now, very atypical of a college QB.

I like Young a lot too but name QB's like Young who've succeeded in the NFL as QB's? Lot more like Leinart have succeeded than like Young. If Leinart didn't have the health concerns I'd say without question he's the better choice, but he does have those concerns.

 

[moklerman]

No? We're second class citizens with fewer rights that Kurt Warner fans?

When it comes to tossing around insults and trying to flame someone, yes. Just like I don't go ragging on the Patriots. When the Rams are 6-10, I don't talk down to teams that are more successful.

Warner's the best qb you guy's have had in years...even decades, so when someone thinks that's his only way to make his point or endear himself to the rest of you then I just like to point out that a perinneal losing team and it's fans haven't earned the right to cast aspersions.

Somehow relating any of this to some slave/race point of view is pretty classless too.

 

[Pariah]

When it comes to tossing around insults and trying to flame someone, yes. Just like I don't go ragging on the Patriots. When the Rams are 6-10, I don't talk down to teams that are more successful.

Warner's the best qb you guy's have had in years...even decades, so when someone thinks that's his only way to make his point or endear himself to the rest of you then I just like to point out that a perinneal losing team and it's fans haven't earned the right to cast aspersions.

Somehow relating any of this to some slave/race point of view is pretty classless too.

We follow football and know it pretty well here on this board even if our opinions differ. We can cast aspersions anywhere we'd like.

As for relating it to antiquated race relations, you're right, it was classless. For that, I apologize. But to go tell a group of people that we can't cast stones because of the football team we root for is pretty infuriating.

 

[Pariah]

You got to be joking.

No, he was right. My bad.

I'll delete it now.

 

[Russ Smith]

When it comes to tossing around insults and trying to flame someone, yes. Just like I don't go ragging on the Patriots. When the Rams are 6-10, I don't talk down to teams that are more successful.

Warner's the best qb you guy's have had in years...even decades, so when someone thinks that's his only way to make his point or endear himself to the rest of you then I just like to point out that a perinneal losing team and it's fans haven't earned the right to cast aspersions.

Somehow relating any of this to some slave/race point of view is pretty classless too.

retracted, my bad.

 

[Pariah]

Isn't it time to start Kurt's dinner Brenda?

:snicker:

 

[moklerman]

He's been audibling freely for 2 years now, very atypical of a college QB.

He may be ahead of the game in terms of knowledge but all the other factors make it more reasonable to me to not use the pick on him in the first round. That's the whole point. There's just too much of a risk at taking a qb. Plenty of qb's out there that are young, have more NFL experience and don't cost nearly as much as a 1st round qb would.

 

[conraddobler]

When it comes to tossing around insults and trying to flame someone, yes. Just like I don't go ragging on the Patriots. When the Rams are 6-10, I don't talk down to teams that are more successful.

Warner's the best qb you guy's have had in years...even decades, so when someone thinks that's his only way to make his point or endear himself to the rest of you then I just like to point out that a perinneal losing team and it's fans haven't earned the right to cast aspersions.

Somehow relating any of this to some slave/race point of view is pretty classless too.

Not to be nit picky, ok it is but anyway, according to just winning percentages as a guide, he's actually behind Josh in terms of "THE BEST" at least in terms of that was then this is now, or reality as some of us call it.

 

[Pariah]

Plenty of qb's out there that are young, have more NFL experience and don't cost nearly as much as a 1st round qb would.

But they all have an appearent ceilling--and relatively low ones at that, otherwise they probably wouldn't be available.

Leinart doesn't. The sky is the limit until he proves otherwise. Like it or not, that's just the way it works.

 

[Russ Smith]

He may be ahead of the game in terms of knowledge but all the other factors make it more reasonable to me to not use the pick on him in the first round. That's the whole point. There's just too much of a risk at taking a qb. Plenty of qb's out there that are young, have more NFL experience and don't cost nearly as much as a 1st round qb would.

So give us some names of these guys the cards should pursue.

The problem here is you don't follow the Cards, you don't know this teams' history with QB's. SInce Lomax' hip injury and Rosenbach's knee this team has been doing precisely what you are advocating, with terrible results. The highest drafted QB in that time was Jake Plummer, 2nd rounder. Every year they try to find a gem somewhere else, it never works. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

At some point, you have to take a chance. We passed on Leftwich, he passed on Ben(and Rivers) and we passed on Rodgers/Campbell etc. If there's a good QB prospect on teh board at 10 and we pass needing immediate help my comment is, we did a lousy job in free agency.

The rest of the NFL covets QB's in the draft, we don't, and have a constant QB question, don't you think just maybe we're wrong?

 

[moklerman]

Isn't it time to start Kurt's dinner Brenda?

Isn't it time for the Cardinals to have a winning season? Please stop. You're in no position to give insults. I mean, you're insulting YOUR team's qb. ???

 

[Pariah]

We passed on Leftwich, he passed on Ben(and Rivers) and we passed on Rodgers/Campbell

And Charlie Frye.

 

[clif]

He may be ahead of the game in terms of knowledge but all the other factors make it more reasonable to me to not use the pick on him in the first round. That's the whole point. There's just too much of a risk at taking a qb. Plenty of qb's out there that are young, have more NFL experience and don't cost nearly as much as a 1st round qb would.

GOD I wish there were 9 GM's out there that thought like you.

 

[Pariah]

Isn't it time for the Cardinals to have a winning season? Please stop. You're in no position to give insults. I mean, you're insulting YOUR team's qb. ???

No, he's not insulting Warner, he's insinuating that you're Brenda because of the way you're sticking up for him. Gosh, humor really loses its spontenaety when you have to explain it.

What, now Cardinals' fans can't insult individuals, either?