Matt leinart draft prediction

[joeshmo]

Isn't it time for the Cardinals to have a winning season? Please stop. You're in no position to give insults. I mean, you're insulting YOUR team's qb. ???

A little hint since you couldnt pick it up the first time. He wasnt insulting Warner, he was insulting you.

 

[conraddobler]

So give us some names of these guys the cards should pursue.

The problem here is you don't follow the Cards, you don't know this teams' history with QB's. SInce Lomax' hip injury and Rosenbach's knee this team has been doing precisely what you are advocating, with terrible results. The highest drafted QB in that time was Jake Plummer, 2nd rounder. Every year they try to find a gem somewhere else, it never works. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

At some point, you have to take a chance. We passed on Leftwich, he passed on Ben(and Rivers) and we passed on Rodgers/Campbell etc. If there's a good QB prospect on teh board at 10 and we pass needing immediate help my comment is, we did a lousy job in free agency.

The rest of the NFL covets QB's in the draft, we don't, and have a constant QB question, don't you think just maybe we're wrong?

I'm going to have to cry foul here Russ.

During all those years did we lose because of the QB's we had or simply never have a top 10 back finish at the bottom statistically on defense or offense or both because our team as a whole stunk?

I honestly think it's a combination, there were times we were so inept no QB could have saved us and very few times all we needed to be decent was a great QB.

However just picture nothing changes over all that time save our QB is always Elway in his prime.

How many playoff games do we get to let alone win?

Honestly I can see 98 happening with Elway and maybe go one game further but that's it.

The rest of the time maybe we win 2 or 3 more games and almost never does that do anything for us.

 

[Russ Smith]

Isn't it time for the Cardinals to have a winning season? Please stop. You're in no position to give insults. I mean, you're insulting YOUR team's qb. ???

Actually I insulted you. Then I decided that was a bad thing and I deleted it. And I apologize for it. But unless you ARE Kurt Warner, I wasn't insulting my teams QB.

And if you are Kurt, shouldn't you be rehabbing that injury?

 

[moklerman]

So give us some names of these guys the cards should pursue.

That's the point, the Card's don't need to pursue a qb right now. I wouldn't pursue one at all. They already have a college prospect in Navarre who's still an unknown commodity overall. He hasn't had a camp as the starter, he hasn't had a week as the starter in practice I don't think. Davey's got great potential too. Young qb's are not needed to improve the Cardinals in the short run or long run for this Cardinals team.

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I would agree with your point if this team wasn't being handled by a coach who seemingly knows what he's doing as well as the Bidwill's actually spending some money for once. Historically the Cardinals may have passed on potential franchise qb's when they didn't have a passing game but first round qb's are usually busts and the Card's don't need help at qb right now or in the near future.

This is just "the grass is always greener" syndrome for Cardinals fans. They see Eli, Ben and Byron's "teams" succeeding and think that they're the reason. It's not the case. Let the team progress under Green with veteran qb's and in a year or two a young guy can come in and succeed with the right kind of support in place.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm going to have to cry foul here Russ.

During all those years did we lose because of the QB's we had or simply never have a top 10 back finish at the bottom statistically on defense or offense or both because our team as a whole stunk?

I honestly think it's a combination, there were times we were so inept no QB could have saved us and very few times all we needed to be decent was a great QB.

However just picture nothing changes over all that time save our QB is always Elway in his prime.

How many playoff games do we get to let alone win?

Honestly I can see 98 happening with Elway and maybe go one game further but that's it.

The rest of the time maybe we win 2 or 3 more games and almost never does that do anything for us.

Fair enough but name one other team in the NFL that has had a QB "question" as long as us? The closest was Jake, and he certainly wasn't the answer here.

I haven't checked but I gotta believe our streak of not taking a QB in round 1 has to be one of the longest around. The teams that go longer were probably all highly successful teams like SF(Montana and then Young) who didn't need a QB and didn't have a high pick.

We've passed on lefty, Ben, Rivers, Rodgers, et al in just the last 3 years and here we are in the offseason again wondering who the QB of the future is. Most NFL teams don't do that they get a shot at a young prospect they draft him.

our history is we don't pick a QB in round one because we have too many other needs to tie up that much money in a first round QB.

I guess to be fair technically our last first round QB was Rosenbach since he was a supplemental.

 

[joeshmo]

he hasn't had a week as the starter in practice I don't think.

The week we played Detriot last year.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Anyone who thinks Lienhart or Young won't be successful in the NFL is senial. Are they the next Hall of Famers, who knows. But neither is gonna bust. End of Story. If we don't atleast see what it would take to get one, we are stupid.

People said Ryan Leaf was just as good as Manning coming out. You cant say that Lienart or Young wont bust. Remember Akili Smith ?

 

[Russ Smith]

Historically the Cardinals may have passed on potential franchise qb's when they didn't have a passing game but first round qb's are usually busts and the Card's don't need help at qb right now or in the near future.

.

Honest questions, how many more years do you see warner playing? And do you, not Green, you, think Navarre is going to be a good NFL starter?

 

[moklerman]

And I've been trying to give you guys credit for simply taking stabs at Warner rather than being classless trolls taking personal shots at me. I keep asking to stop with the insults. If you can't disagree with an opinion then just be quiet. If you have to resort to personal attacks then you don't actually have anything to say.

 

[joeshmo]

And I've been trying to give you guys credit for simply taking stabs at Warner rather than being classless trolls

Jeez Russ apologizes for and deletes his insult and you still call him a classless troll. Not cool.

Russ you are not a classless troll. You are a classy troll.

 

[Russ Smith]

And I've been trying to give you guys credit for simply taking stabs at Warner rather than being classless trolls taking personal shots at me. I keep asking to stop with the insults. If you can't disagree with an opinion then just be quiet. If you have to resort to personal attacks then you don't actually have anything to say.

another honest question. If warner signs with Detroit next year will you ever follow the Cards again?

You're suggesting the team should make decisions based in the best interests of your favorite player, the rest of us are worried about the best interests of our favorite team.

And the irony is most of us LIKE Warner, we just don't worship the guy.

 

[Russ Smith]

Jeez Russ apologizes for and deletes his insult and you still call him a classless troll. Not cool.

Russ you are not a classless troll. You are a classy troll.

 

[moklerman]

We've passed on lefty, Ben, Rivers, Rodgers, et al in just the last 3 years and here we are in the offseason again wondering who the QB of the future is. Most NFL teams don't do that they get a shot at a young prospect they draft him.

Look at the Bengals. They drafted first round qb's year after year and it didn't do them any good at all and may have helped keep them mired in mediocrity.

The week we played Detriot last year.

The point is, Navarre is still a young college project that hasn't really gotten a chance in the current offense. He may be just as perfect as any of the other guys out there.

Honest questions, how many more years do you see warner playing? And do you, not Green, you, think Navarre is going to be a good NFL starter?

I think Warner's got maybe...maybe 2 full years left. I hope for more but it all depends on how well the line improves and if he's even in Arizona next year. I just don't know about Navarre and I don't think anyone else does either. I think it's just as likely Navarre could have been put in the New England situation and succeeded as Brady but I just haven't seen him play in a positive situation. I wouldn't give up on him already, that's for sure.

 

[Southpaw]

Back on topic. I would not be shocked if he was taken top 3. I would not be shocked if he drops.

Does anyone think Bush could drop?

Likes to run out of bounds after taking the wide side. Not an up the middle RB. Maybe not a 3 down back at all.

 

[Russ Smith]

Back on topic. I would not be shocked if he was taken top 3. I would not be shocked if he drops.

Does anyone think Bush could drop?

Likes to run out of bounds after taking the wide side. Not an up the middle RB. Maybe not a 3 down back at all.

I think it's possible Young goes ahead of him but not because Bush dropped, because Young moved up.

Like you I agree he does run out of bounds quite a bit. That's why Texas held him in check on the run save the one great run, they're fast enough to string him out and let him step out. White just pounded it up inside and made them pay for how small their LBs are.

 

[moklerman]

another honest question. If warner signs with Detroit next year will you ever follow the Cards again?

No, and I've never claimed otherwise. That's why I get tired of those of you who choose to use my honesty and straightforward position against me. I've never claimed he was the best qb right now or ever, but still I'm called "Brenda" and "worship" Warner.

You're suggesting the team should make decisions based in the best interests of your favorite player, the rest of us are worried about the best interests of our favorite team.

Whether the Cardinals are my team or not, my approach is what I believe for any NFL team. I wouldn't give up on Navarre or Davey as potential future starters for the Cardinals and I think they'd be better off to follow last years approach and draft a guy like Rolle again. Not that particular position, but BPA that will help the team.

Jeez Russ apologizes for and deletes his insult and you still call him a classless troll. Not cool.

I was referring more to those who were quick to point out the insult was directed at me and commenting on my perceptive abilities. I didn't get the impression they were too upset at a fellow Card's fan sinking to that level.

 

[AZCB34]

I don't want a 23 year old QoF who has to wear a knee brace that is as big as his. Therefore, I could care less where he is drafted if he is drafted at all.

 

[conraddobler]

Fair enough but name one other team in the NFL that has had a QB "question" as long as us? The closest was Jake, and he certainly wasn't the answer here.

I haven't checked but I gotta believe our streak of not taking a QB in round 1 has to be one of the longest around. The teams that go longer were probably all highly successful teams like SF(Montana and then Young) who didn't need a QB and didn't have a high pick.

We've passed on lefty, Ben, Rivers, Rodgers, et al in just the last 3 years and here we are in the offseason again wondering who the QB of the future is. Most NFL teams don't do that they get a shot at a young prospect they draft him.

our history is we don't pick a QB in round one because we have too many other needs to tie up that much money in a first round QB.

I guess to be fair technically our last first round QB was Rosenbach since he was a supplemental.

It's ironic we draft as high as we do, yet never high enough to land one and when we finally do draft that high we pass on them.

To me the larger problem all those years was talent flight that we stopped. Now that's stopped but still we somehow have managed doging a true franchise QB when they sprinkle around us all over the place.

It's odd that someone like Pittsburg who drafts that high once every 10 years just happens on Big Ben but we draft that high every year and miss them.

It's frustrating that we never seem to get one I agree, I wish we could but this year unless someone other than Leinart or Young is considered one we just aren't in the right position to make it happen, we'd get strung up for picks out the ying yang and in that case it makes it twice as dangerous to draft one.

 

[moklerman]

I think you guys are being too hard on yourselves. Big Ben wouldn't be anywhere near as successful here, whereas Manning or any prototypical qb worth a salt would be with the Steelers. Pittsburgh doesn't throw the ball very much and doesn't rely on the qb. Ben's good, but he's not "your team will be 15-1 with him" good. That's part of the reason NE always shuts Pittsburgh down in the playoffs. Put it on Ben to carry the offense and you stop Pittsburgh.

Leftwhich is another example. Jacksonville's a good "team". That's why they just kept on winning when Garrard stepped in. Byron's good, but Arizona wouldn't be where Jacksonville is if they had drafted him.

Frye didn't improve Cleveland's offense. Boller didn't save Baltimore.

Steven Jackson's another good example. He was a pile driver in college but when he went to the Rams, with their shortcomings on the line, he's struggled at converting much less solving the Rams running game.

Please believe me when I say to stay away from a high priced skill player and build the core of the team and add depth and the skill guys will be a dime a dozen.

 

[CardinalLaw]

People said Ryan Leaf was just as good as Manning coming out. You cant say that Lienart or Young wont bust. Remember Akili Smith ?

Oh Ok two NFL QB busts, its now destined that every future QB will be own also. After being the worst franchise of all time, you would think we would for once get tired of the old ways.

Biggest Busts of all time

RB's, OT's, QB's, K's, LB's, DE's, DT's, DB's, WR's.

Busts come in all shapes and sizes. They come at all positions, if were so worried about drafting a bust, why don't we just not pick at all. Lets just refuse to send the card up. Jeez after all this losing you would think fans would look back. OK what has been wrong with this franchise over the past century. This franchise seams to have even made there fans delusional. While arguing whether Josh McCown is a starter or not, were proclaiming two Great college QB's busts. McCown was terrible in his little college, and he might be starter Material in the league. But National Champions and Heisman candidates suck, know way they live up to the hype. They won't make this team better. The only reason Josh might live up to his hype is because he had none coming out of college.

Hey I hear there might be a great steal of the draft, this QB from Glendale Community College, might be the next Brady. Got local ties, why not. Thats basicly the crap I read on here some times.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think you guys are being too hard on yourselves. Big Ben wouldn't be anywhere near as successful here, whereas Manning or any prototypical qb worth a salt would be with the Steelers. Pittsburgh doesn't throw the ball very much and doesn't rely on the qb. Ben's good, but he's not "your team will be 15-1 with him" good. That's part of the reason NE always shuts Pittsburgh down in the playoffs. Put it on Ben to carry the offense and you stop Pittsburgh.

Leftwhich is another example. Jacksonville's a good "team". That's why they just kept on winning when Garrard stepped in. Byron's good, but Arizona wouldn't be where Jacksonville is if they had drafted him.

Frye didn't improve Cleveland's offense. Boller didn't save Baltimore.

Steven Jackson's another good example. He was a pile driver in college but when he went to the Rams, with their shortcomings on the line, he's struggled at converting much less solving the Rams running game.

Please believe me when I say to stay away from a high priced skill player and build the core of the team and add depth and the skill guys will be a dime a dozen.

Jackson 5 YPC as a rookie, 4.1 this year playing for a team that was falling apart. Not exactly struggling.

NE has played Ben precisely once in the playoffs so saying ALWAYS is a bit silly isn't it? Orton had the same situation this year in Chicago and couldn't hold the job. Ben didn't win those games on his own but he didn't lose games and he made enough plays to help win games. They found out his value again thsi year when he got hurt.

Jax with Garrard beat the Cards, Browns, 49ers, Texans and Titans. You don't suppose they won because they finished with such a weak schedule?
They missed Leftwich, that's why they're starting him this weekend.

 

[Pariah]

While AZ is not one player away from the promised land, neither is it devoid of talent. A good young QB drafted in the 1st or 2nd this year may not even see the field in 2006 if Warner stays healthy, but could probably make great strides in 07--maybe even in a Big Ben sorta way.

Davey and Navarre? Every NFL team has at least one guy like this on their roster--a relatively young QB buried on the depth chart. These guys will generally never see an NFL start. You know why? Because there are more talented, more promising players in front of them. Navarre has seen the field largely because of circumstance. Personally, I hope he never see the field again--because if he does it means we're in trouble.

 

[Pariah]

Frye didn't improve Cleveland's offense.

You mean in the 3 games he started? No, he didn't; but he didn't hurt it, either. But, I'll bet you he improves it next year when he has a camp under his belt and the team is his.

 

[moklerman]

Jax with Garrard beat the Cards, Browns, 49ers, Texans and Titans. You don't suppose they won because they finished with such a weak schedule?
They missed Leftwich, that's why they're starting him this weekend.

I wouldn't poo-poo a five game winning streak in the NFL. The point is, all the "franchise" qb's that you guys are regretting not getting wouldn't have put Arizona in the playoffs. Maybe not even stabilized the qb position. I could easily see them all performing at around the level Navarre has if they were put in his position. Not definitely, it's just that these guys were put on good teams and didn't screw things up. That's a lot different than going to a losing team with o-line issues. The money spent to get the 1st round guy will also hinder repairing the o-line and other areas that will put the team in a position to not improve as quickly.

 

[moklerman]

But, I'll bet you he improves it next year when he has a camp under his belt and the team is his.

So you can definitely say that Navarre wouldn't improve with the same situation? I can't. Remember, he hasn't even been getting 2nd string rep's for the most part. I don't know if he'll be good or not but I don't think he's been given a chance.