Mavs @ Suns

[Absolute Zero]

Booker was the bright spot.

The rest of the team looked disjointed and out of synch. Dallas basically scored at will. I thought our team was going to build a defensive identity? It looked more like a layup drill.

 

[Chaplin]

He's trying to see which players to put in the regular rotation and which players to not.

6 games of Preseason isn't enough?

Opening night at home is the worst time to tinker with lineups after a semi-successful training camp and preseason. I like Hornacek, but that was very poor coaching on his part. That first half was like watching a comedy of errors. The best player, and best by a wide margin, was John Leuer, but he didn't even get in the game because Hornacek decided to stick with Teletovic, who was absolutely horrible.

 

[Chaplin]

Sure glad we got rid of the problem children that Hornacek could not meld into a winning team.

Gerald Green 5 for 8 from three - 19 points - Miami Wins
Goran Dragic 8 pts 6 assists 1 TO - Miami Wins
Isaiah Thomas 27 Pts 7 assists - Boston Wins
Marcus Morris 10/27 18 & 10 - Detroit Wins
Marcus Morris 10/28 14 & 6 - Detroit Wins

Sure glad we dumped those guys, our team is so much better.

Who should we dump from this team that Hornacek cannot coach?

Regardless of their stats, not having Marcus Morris is a net positive.

 

[JS22]

Not just 13 deep, but 13 deep early in the 2nd quarter. That seems insane to me. I'd use Bledsoe, Knight, Tucker, Markieff, Chandler, Booker, Warren, Weems, Len and Leuer and save the other players for garbage time.

I gave up at halftime but if I recall the Suns were picking up a LOT of ticky tack fouls so they had to go deep.

 

[Chaplin]

I gave up at halftime but if I recall the Suns were picking up a LOT of ticky tack fouls so they had to go deep.

Leuer wasn't in foul trouble and was arguably our best player in the 1st half, but got hardly any playing time, why is that?

Foul trouble by the bigs doesn't mean we have to play every shooting guard we have.

 

[95pro]

Yeah I'm not sure why Leuer was pulled. Tele was awful, I have seen him show up on defense since he's been with us.

 

[leclerc]

Good to see so many players getting playing time in the first half.

Typical Suns 3rd quarter giving up on the game. Knight is not very good. He's more out of control throwing away balls than Bledsoe. Sheez.

 

[Bert]

He's trying to see which players to put in the regular rotation and which players to not.

That's what the preseason is for.

6 games of Preseason isn't enough?

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

Regardless, the more I thought about that game, the more it annoyed me. Honestly, where is the scoring going to come from on this team?

Bledsoe is solid but he's not going to be a 30point a night guy.

Neither is anyone else. Honestly I think last nights game is a perfect precursor to the regular season. It's going to come down to one simple fact with this lineup. If the Suns aren't making 3's, they are DOOMED. The TV guys even admitted as much and then quickly tried to dial it back. Hornacek has yet to show that he can design an offense to do anything other than that.

It's one game, but this team didn't show us anything to be encouraged about last night. They'll have some hot shooting nights where its fun and exciting and they will win a few games but honestly I will be surprised if we win over 40 games.

(I'm a Suns lifer, would be thrilled to eat these words, not trying to be negative, but the offensive philosophy on this team is troubling)

 

[elindholm]

(I'm a Suns lifer, would be thrilled to eat these words, not trying to be negative, but the offensive philosophy on this team is troubling)

I'm not sure it's a "philosophy" issue so much as the abilities (or lack thereof) of the personnel. They lack two basic building blocks of a successful offense: a low-post threat, and several players who are dangerous to leave open. Three-point attempts are better than long two-pointers, but even so, you need players who are a threat to score from 18-20 feet, because otherwise you don't present the defense with enough challenges. The Suns' half-court offense consists of dribble penetration -- in the hands of mediocre ball-handlers -- or three pointers that are often contested. It's a recipe for failure, but with roster, what other options are there?

 

[Bert]

I'm not sure it's a "philosophy" issue so much as the abilities (or lack thereof) of the personnel. They lack two basic building blocks of a successful offense: a low-post threat, and several players who are dangerous to leave open. Three-point attempts are better than long two-pointers, but even so, you need players who are a threat to score from 18-20 feet, because otherwise you don't present the defense with enough challenges. The Suns' half-court offense consists of dribble penetration -- in the hands of mediocre ball-handlers -- or three pointers that are often contested. It's a recipe for failure, but with roster, what other options are there?

Excellent points.

There aren't any other options. Like I said, 3 pointers or bust.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sure glad we got rid of the problem children that Hornacek could not meld into a winning team.

Gerald Green 5 for 8 from three - 19 points - Miami Wins
Goran Dragic 8 pts 6 assists 1 TO - Miami Wins
Isaiah Thomas 27 Pts 7 assists - Boston Wins
Marcus Morris 10/27 18 & 10 - Detroit Wins
Marcus Morris 10/28 14 & 6 - Detroit Wins

Sure glad we dumped those guys, our team is so much better.

Who should we dump from this team that Hornacek cannot coach?

At some point the Suns are going to have to look elsewhere than blaming the players. The Suns loss was embarrassing on opening night at home. The Suns did not look like a team out there compared to a supposedly mediocre Mavericks team.

 

[SirStefan32]

At some point the Suns are going to have to look elsewhere than blaming the players. The Suns loss was embarrassing on opening night at home. The Suns did not look like a team out there compared to a supposedly mediocre Mavericks team.

What? Who else are they going to blame? Fans?

 

[sunsfan88]

What? Who else are they going to blame? Fans?

I think he meant coaching/the GM's desire for the dual pg offense.

 

[sunsfan88]

Sure glad we got rid of the problem children that Hornacek could not meld into a winning team.

Gerald Green 5 for 8 from three - 19 points - Miami Wins
Goran Dragic 8 pts 6 assists 1 TO - Miami Wins
Isaiah Thomas 27 Pts 7 assists - Boston Wins
Marcus Morris 10/27 18 & 10 - Detroit Wins
Marcus Morris 10/28 14 & 6 - Detroit Wins

Sure glad we dumped those guys, our team is so much better.

Who should we dump from this team that Hornacek cannot coach?

Its scary how good Green has been playing for Miami. He went off in almost all their pre season games too. I've been waiting to see that bad game from him but so far, he looks like he's trying to make a run for 6MOY.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm not sure it's a "philosophy" issue so much as the abilities (or lack thereof) of the personnel. They lack two basic building blocks of a successful offense: a low-post threat, and several players who are dangerous to leave open. Three-point attempts are better than long two-pointers, but even so, you need players who are a threat to score from 18-20 feet, because otherwise you don't present the defense with enough challenges. The Suns' half-court offense consists of dribble penetration -- in the hands of mediocre ball-handlers -- or three pointers that are often contested. It's a recipe for failure, but with roster, what other options are there?

Dallas is projected to be among the worst teams in the NBA and arguably the least talented roster in the NBA (especially without Parsons and a Matthews that's still recovering and on minute restriction) and yet Rick Carslie was able to make their team look pretty damn good against us and they did pretty well against us in the half court too.

I don't think the "roster" is the issue for getting your ass kicked at home by teams like Dallas. Even before the game, Tucker, Hornacek and others were proclaiming their "playoffs or bust" mentality for this season. Yea, if you want to make playoffs as an 8th seed or whatever, not good to be having games like these. Hopefully not many more to follow.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think he meant coaching/the GM's desire for the dual pg offense.

The problem isn't with having 2 "pg", its putting those guys in lineups with virtually no threat from the outside. Guards need room to navigate, putting Knight and Bledsoe out there with Tucker, Morris and Chandler... a bunch of non-threats from the perimeter and guys who don't exactly burn in transition. Its a recipe for failure.

They need to get Tucker or Morris out of the starting lineup.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Its scary how good Green has been playing for Miami. He went off in almost all their pre season games too. I've been waiting to see that bad game from him but so far, he looks like he's trying to make a run for 6MOY.

He was a huge part of our run two years ago. It's not surprising.

 

[JustWinBaby]

The problem isn't with having 2 "pg", its putting those guys in lineups with virtually no threat from the outside. Guards need room to navigate, putting Knight and Bledsoe out there with Tucker, Morris and Chandler... a bunch of non-threats from the perimeter and guys who don't exactly burn in transition. Its a recipe for failure.

They need to get Tucker or Morris out of the starting lineup.

Who is they?

Just say it. Hornacek needs to get a clue.

I certainly hope he does and soon. I cannot watch the crap they displayed last night and I want to watch them.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't think it's Hornacek so much who needs to get Kieff and Tucker out of the starting lineup as it is the players behind them.

 

[Chaplin]

At some point the Suns are going to have to look elsewhere than blaming the players. The Suns loss was embarrassing on opening night at home. The Suns did not look like a team out there compared to a supposedly mediocre Mavericks team.

There's no "supposedly" about it. The Mavericks aren't good. We just weren't better. Crossing our fingers that it is only one game.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't think it's Hornacek so much who needs to get Kieff and Tucker out of the starting lineup as it is the players behind them.

It's only been one game, but Leuer and Warren are doing their parts, so I'm not sure blaming the backups is the way to go on this one.

 

[BC867]

It's only been one game, but Leuer and Warren are doing their parts, so I'm not sure blaming the backups is the way to go on this one.

I've posted for years on the ASFN Suns and D-backs sites about the danger of players not knowing their roles. It kills confidence, continuity and chemistry.

I am afraid that this year's Suns backups (with the exception of Len) will see their usage and roles change from quarter to quarter and game to game.

It is caused by a weak roster provided by the GM and perpetuated by a Coach who is too easy going to make commitments and give them a chance to gel.

How long will every regular season game be like training camp? We will see.

 

[Mainstreet]

What? Who else are they going to blame? Fans?

Personally I am starting to question the coaching.

McDonough cleaned house last season of the supposed problem players. Of course perhaps some can blame Markieff but sooner or later the Suns have to examine themselves. The Suns cannot win without doing something well. The Suns offense is sputtering and I do not see Hornacek's vision there. Also I do not see the current Suns hanging their hat on defense which has been their stated focus. Their defense looks as bad as ever.

I think the question has to be asked, could another coach do better with last season's early roster or this season's roster? In another post I said if the Suns got off to a slow start, I don't think Hornacek will last 20 games. We show see. I think McDonough has done his best to give Hornacek what he wants.

 

[95pro]

last year we did some head scratching on Hornecek rotations and schemes. This first game left us feeling that way again. I don't think i've ever seen something like our opening night's rotations.

 

[Errntknght]

I'm going to wait a good number of games before I get too down on the team this year - I've said all summer that they were going to need good three point shooting to keep the floor spread to do anything. With that and good chemistry they would probably make the playoffs.

I believe the addition of Knight and Booker in the backcourt and Teletovic and Leuer in the frontcourt gives us the necessary firepower as long as the returnees don't fall off. I'm also counting on Len to be able to step out and knock down mid-range shots with fair regularity to help with spreading the floor.

I've been disappointed with Hornacek's half court offense from the get go but as limited as it is, strong 3 pt shooting should make it work quite well. Unfortunately, I don't think it will ever put us in contention without top notch defense - which seems as unlikely as ever. In short, I think Hornacek needs to go and the sooner the better because if you're not building into contention, you need to take a different path.

If the team doesn't play up to what I think is their talent level, it is going to be as painful to watch as last year. It's probably a good thing if they don't, as making the playoffs probably keeps us on the same path with Hornacek for a few more years. Even believing that I still hate to watch the team do badly...