Minnesota Fan Source Reports KG in talks with Suns

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's pretty obvious.

Talentwise they are about the same. Size advantages are clearly in Barbosa's favor.

But the obvious reason of course is, Barbosa is the most underpaid player in the league at 5 yrs/32M$ while Gordon is going to be up for an extension and will likely demand TWICE as much as Barbosa.

i'll give you the money argument, but the size argument is poor. barbs may be 2 inches taller, but he's very weak and doesn't use that size to his advantage. in contrast, ben gordon is very strong and doesn't take nearly the abuse defensively that barbs does.

it's far from obvious. so far that it might not even be accurate.

 

[hsandhu]

i'll give you the money argument, but the size argument is poor. barbs may be 2 inches taller, but he's very weak and doesn't use that size to his advantage. in contrast, ben gordon is very strong and doesn't take nearly the abuse defensively that barbs does.

it's far from obvious. so far that it might not even be accurate.

Ben Gordon is a better player than barbosa right now, period.

BUT, barbosa has more room to grow. Because of his size limitations as a two guard, you can't really look at gordon and see any area where he can significantly improve his game. Become a better ball handler, maybe, that's it.

Barbosa has 0 mid range game, 0 pullup game, needs to learn on how to consistently finish when a big man is at the rim (i.e. the way devin harris did against duncan last year).

Alll depends on what you want? Want the more surer thing in gordon, or a bit of bigger gamble in barbosa.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Trading Marion + Barbosa... is such a HUGE mistake IMO, I don't even want to think about it....

The only way I would do it, is if it was Marion, Barbosa, Banks #24 and #29 for KG and the #7... and Im pretty sure the Wolves wouldn't do that... but just for arguments sake say we use that pick on Conley Jr, our lineup would look like

PG: Nash/Conley JR
SG: Bell/?
SF: Hill/Jones JR
PF: Amare/Diaw
C: Garnett/KT

Thin at SG, but assuming Hill signs with phoenix (and if this particular trade goes through it would seemingly be a done deal) the suns would be stocked at every other position, have our PG of the future, and still have the ATL pick next year.... OJ Mayo??

ok all this is admittedly a pipe dream, but would be one of the only scenerios where I would include Marion with Barbosa...

IMO not even Garnett is worth both straight up.....

 

[JS22]

Kobe didnt make his decision until middle of july, and picked the lakers at the last minute over the clippers. And was listening to bulls/knicks up untile then as well.

I recall hearing that Kobe "reportedly" was not interested in a contract with Phoenix on ESPN. The Suns probably knew this much sooner, so they went after Nash instead. At least, I think.

I'm not a big fan of Gambo, but he has been right on most everything lately. He knew about the Q signing, the JJ / Diaw trade, and the James Jones signing from what I can remember.

 

[Rab]

I recall hearing that Kobe "reportedly" was not interested in a contract with Phoenix on ESPN. The Suns probably knew this much sooner, so they went after Nash instead. At least, I think.

I'm not a big fan of Gambo, but he has been right on most everything lately. He knew about the Q signing, the JJ / Diaw trade, and the James Jones signing from what I can remember.

Kobe was either going to take the Lakers or Clippers deal, and when PHX caught wind of that, they saved their money and went after Nash.

 

[azirish]

Leandro has been working on a mid range game, but doesn't do it as much because he still needs to know when somebody is in position to cut him off. The same holds for how he does not do enough drive and kick despite the fact that he's proven he is quite capable of doing it.

It's hard to compare guys who have college experience versus someone coming into the NBA without much coaching. NBA teams are not well suited to developing guys from scratch, which is why Dan D'Antoni (a former HS coach) is such a huge addition. Unlike most NBA coaches, he is used to dealing with guys who are really raw.

Gordon had some fairly high level college coaching for three years when he first started. Also, while Leandro has been in the NBA a year longer, due to his slower start of his career and injuries, Gordon has played 7188 minutes to Leandro's 6793 regular season minutes. (For whatever it's worth, Leandro has 1097 playoff minutes to Gordon's 793).

Bottom line? Gordon is more physical and gets to the line a lot. Leandro is amazingly fast and gets layups without getting fouled. Both are very good three point shooters, but Leandro is in an offense that is much more about shooting threes. Leandro plays in a much better offense so he is not expected to make his own shot like Gordon does. Leandro plays more point guard and has more assists, though neither is a major playmaker.

Ben Gordon
Chicago Bulls
Position: G
Height: 6-3 Weight: 200
College : Connecticut
Player file | Team stats
2006-07 StatisticsPPG21.4
RPG3.1
APG3.6
SPG.78
BPG.21
FG%.455
FT%.864
3P%.413
MPG33.0

Leandro Barbosa
Phoenix Suns
Position: G
Height: 6-3 Weight: 188
From : Brazil
Player file | Team stats
2006-07 StatisticsPPG18.1

RPG2.7
APG4.0
SPG1.20
BPG.19
FG%.476
FT%.845
3P%.434
MPG32.7

Their stats are pretty close. The reason Gordon scores more is that he shoots more and attacks the basket a lot:

Gordon 609 of 1338 and 155 of 375 for three 380 of 440 free throws
Barbosa 529 of 1111 and 190 of 436 for three 196 of 232 free throws

We think of Leandro as attacking the basket at lot, but Gordon clearly does it more. Leandro reflects the Suns tendency to shoot a lot of three pointers and gets him more open looks.

 

[hsandhu]

I recall hearing that Kobe "reportedly" was not interested in a contract with Phoenix on ESPN. The Suns probably knew this much sooner, so they went after Nash instead. At least, I think.

I'm not a big fan of Gambo, but he has been right on most everything lately. He knew about the Q signing, the JJ / Diaw trade, and the James Jones signing from what I can remember.

Well according to gambo, kobe and mcgrady were both telling the suns as early as february 2004 they wanted to play together, and wanted to do it in phoenix.

He couldn't have been more wrong about that entire situation. I remember him scrambling even after the suns signed nash, saying the kobe thing wasnt over and the suns might sign and trade for him. I dont know about his overall track record, but he looked like fool during that situation.

 

[slinslin]

TMac only didnt come to Phoenix because Phoenix asked him to waive his opt out because they had no interesst in giving him a long term extension.

 

[cly2tw]

Gordon is much better of a scorer than LB. He has actually a big "size" advantage over LB cos he's much stronger. On the Suns, only Banks has a reallistic chance to cover him well one-on-one. You gotta watch how he gets his points compared how LB got his. Bulls don't have Nash if anyone forgot that.

Gordon is Arenas and Iverson type of scorer. LB at best will be close to Parker if he learns how to control his body while driving to the basket.

 

[cly2tw]

TMac only didnt come to Phoenix because Phoenix asked him to waive his opt out because they had no interesst in giving him a long term extension.

I thought the reason was that Suns weren't willing to work out the extension before the trade like the Rockets did.

 

[hsandhu]

TMac only didnt come to Phoenix because Phoenix asked him to waive his opt out because they had no interesst in giving him a long term extension.

He actually wanted to play with yao, and orlando wanted joe johnson instead of casey jacobsen. That's why it didn't happen.

Ironically orlando screwed up royally (they could have luol deng and marion, instead of well....nothing) and t-mac still cant get out of the first round.

 

[Cheesebeef]

TMac only didnt come to Phoenix because Phoenix asked him to waive his opt out because they had no interesst in giving him a long term extension.

uh, what? that deal never happened because we wouldn't throw JJ into the mix.

 

[azirish]

He actually wanted to play with yao, and orlando wanted joe johnson instead of casey jacobsen. That's why it didn't happen.

Ironically orlando screwed up royally (they could have luol deng and marion, instead of well....nothing) and t-mac still cant get out of the first round.

Every rumor claimed Orlando demanded JJ. The odd part of that was that it should have been taken as a sign that JJ's market value was a lot higher than some Suns people realized.

Unfortunately, our 20-20 hindsight misses the fact that in '04 the Suns offer to JJ was not unreasonable at the time. JJ's agent started the season asking for $60 million over six years in a year, when Manu had been signed for $52 over six. We are told he reduced the asking price to $50 million, but even that was pretty high when considering JJ's record compared to Manu's at that point.

But while BC had figured out that Manu was not seeking the maximum dollars, so his salary was unreasonbly low. But Sarver was too green to understand that.

The reason this issue comes up over and over is that it is the primary "proof" that Sarver is cheap. My view is that he was trying to do what the Spurs do, which is to pay market but not overpay. It should not have blown up like it did, but Atlanta was despirate to get someone, anyone, to come to them rather than just being used to bid up other offers like K-Mart did the year before.

What Sarver did was play chicken with the Hawks and they blinked. They couldn't afford to end another summer empty handed and in the end couldn't afford to bet that Sarver was bluffing. We might suspect that Sarver was bluffing, but he had an awful lot to lose if JJ left without compensation.

This task of estimating the value of players is no easy job. Miscalculations can lead to losing key guys while signing other guys to impossible contracts.

 

[Folster]

KG rumor summary (from espn)

Not sure if this has been posted yet. This summary was posted on phxsuns.net, but I think it orginated from a poster on the espn boards. It seems fairly accurate.

Here's a recap:

A guy on realGM who has yet to lie about inside info posted on the Minni board:

"hey its been awhile since y'all have heard from me but i have some news that doesnt sound to promising for us!!!!! i've been catching wind that kg may have been dealt last night to phoenix. now im not 100% sure just yet but please take my word that there has been serious talk going on for the last few nights between kg&his agent with the suns. i really hope this is not true but i wanted to give yall the heads up."

The moderator then told him to pm him his source or the thread will be locked. A minute later the moderator said:

"Trust me guys. Trust ME. That is a serious source."

The moderator then locked the thread, citing that the guy asked the moderator to lock the thread for now because it was putting the 'source' in trouble.

On the 'night' that the above guy was talking about, someone on another board posted this:

"KG just got traded to Phx. no bullsh*t i got the inside scoop...when you see it on espn remember where you heard it 1st!.....i dont know for who but i assume shawn marion is in the deal. rofl at your faces, when this sh*t drops...just remember who to prop and just some info on me...."

Later today when asked for a source, and after Chad Ford said that Boston had offered Minni a deal the same guy posted:

"aight so yeah i can guarentee that hes gonna get traded and 90% sure to phx. while the boston deal a legit rumor the thing people dont get is that kg is one of the 2 players in the league who had a no trade clause (kobe is the other) so its not like the sixers with iverson where they can wait to see what the best deals are they can get for him..he can say what teams he'd be willing to go to. KG has all the leverage right now because he can opt out of his contract next year and the twolves would get nothing for him. and he has told the twolves that he plans to do so. Right now he wants to go to phx over boston cuz he feels that he has a better chance of winning a championship in phx ove boston which is obvious.

The reason why i am 90% sure he is goin to phx is that he has told people close to him qoute "ive been traded to phx. will you move out there?" how positve would you have to be that you are gonna get traded somewhere to ask the people close to you "will (not would) you move out to phx"

im postin this for yall benefit not mine....you not believin me doesnt make me lose any sleep or does it change what i know....as ive stated you have no reason to believe me and that all i ask is that when it goes public you remeber who hooked yo up...1"

And just now we get a article on realGM saying that Minni was feeling out KG's trade value and that the most serious talks were with the Suns. Apparently Minni wants Amare in the deal but the Suns' haven't budge.

When you put it all together this is what this is all saying to me:

-Garnett has went to the T-wolves and told him that he is opting out next season and that they had better find a way to get something for him now before its too late.

-Minnesota then called around to see what other people could offer.

-But when KG got word that the Suns were one of the teams, he and his agent told Minni that thats the team he wants to play for and to seek a deal.

-Kg's agent then begin to talk with Phx and the Wolves and the Suns talks heated up. So much so that Garnett told his family and close friends that he was going to Phx and asked if they wanted to come with him.

-A family member of KG told a few people what was going on. Both of these dudes post on forums. One posted the same night that he got the info, the other the next morning.

-Somehow word got back to KG that the trade had been leaked onto the internet and KG's family member asked the guy on realGM to get the moderator to lock the thread so that it wouldn't damage the deal.

-Seeking to get Amare thrown in the deal, someone from the Wolves organization leaked the story to the press and falsely said that Kerr was stalling because he was unsure as to include Amare. This was done to get the fans in Phx to possibly pressue Kerr into doing a KG deal that included Amare.

And thats where we are at now.

My guess is that KG asked friends and family if they would move or would like to move to Phoenix. That seems to be where the rumor started. Now was KG just asking his family to get their opinions of Phoenix or was he telling them he was going to Phoenix. My money is on the former.

 

[hsandhu]

Not sure if this has been posted yet.

Interesting, I'm not sure how leaking the deal could damage the deal. I think the mod said the source didn't want to get people pissed at him, which would obviously happen, that's why he had to lock the thread.

Who knows what will happen, I'm not getting my hopes to high, just let it happen either way.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Where did you find this recap?

Its pretty accurate from the research ive been doing, aside from the info about KG's call and friends/family

Also I havent heard anything about Kerr and his actions.

The guy on the 'other board' that said:

"KG just got traded to Phx. no bullsh*t i got the inside scoop...when you see it on espn remember where you heard it 1st!....."

Sorta bothered me. He wrote like he was a mix between a 12 year old and a hip hop thug. Didnt find him believable. However he did state numerous times he didnt care what people thought he was just doing them a favor, and remember who to thank when it comes true.

Although thats what I would say if I was trying to spread a rumor too

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Seriously. This is all anyone can bring up when trying to bash Gambo. He NEVER said it would happen, but discussed the possibility. (Basically saying how amazing it would be if the Suns could pull it off.)

Yeah, he's annoying, but his sources are legit.

Ironically he brought this up today. Appharently the Suns thought the deal to Houston had fallen through and that they had T-Mac but Orlando decided to take the offer Houston had.

That trade is easily one of the worst in BBall history.

 

[slinslin]

I thought the reason was that Suns weren't willing to work out the extension before the trade like the Rockets did.

Yes thats the same thing..

Tmac had something like 3 years left with an opt-out before the last 2.

Phoenix wanted him to waive the optout clause if they traded Marion and Johnson for him.

Houston was willing to let him opt out and give him a new max extension.

That's why Phoenix didn't trade for TMac, he wasn't willing to waive his opt out.

 

[slinslin]

Folster where did you get that summary?

Makes sense..

 

[Cheesebeef]

Folster where did you get that summary?

Makes sense..

phxsuns.net

 

[slinslin]

And how would phxsuns.net have that inside knowledge? I mean this much wasn't even posted on realgm.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And how would phxsuns.net have that inside knowledge? I mean this much wasn't even posted on realgm.

don't ask me - it's just where I saw it posted before here.

 

[slinslin]

Gordon is much better of a scorer than LB. He has actually a big "size" advantage over LB cos he's much stronger. On the Suns, only Banks has a reallistic chance to cover him well one-on-one. You gotta watch how he gets his points compared how LB got his. Bulls don't have Nash if anyone forgot that.

Gordon is Arenas and Iverson type of scorer. LB at best will be close to Parker if he learns how to control his body while driving to the basket.

WHAT? Heck no...

The biggest knocks on Gordon are that he is horrible defender and that he is in love with his jumper and soft in the Shawn Marion way that he isn't getting to the rim.

Who cares how strong he is? I have never ever seen him or any other 6' player in the NBA post up someone and back him down.

Arenas and Iverson are in a different class than Gordon who will be a career 6th man tweener in my opinion. Iverson and Arenas are more SG in PGs bodys but when the play PG they are still in the top 7. Gordon is a better version of Bobby Jackson, career 6th man if you ask me , much like Barbosa most likely except Barbosa is cheap, Gordon won't be.

 

[Cheesebeef]

i didn't realize KG had a no-trade clause. if so, that defintely chages things, in our favor as far as Barbs or no Barbs. but does anyone know if this is actually true with the "no trade clause"- it's the first I've heard of it. I know Kobe's got one, not sure about KG.

 

[slinslin]

don't ask me - it's just where I saw it posted before here.

Well I see someone on ESPN posted the summary, apparently one of the 2 guys who broke the "news" posted on some other board again or whatever..