Murray may not run at Pro Day Today (3/13)

[Proximo]

How many if those guys were every down backs? 2 or 3? They call those little guys scat backs for a reason.

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Not the point - the point is they can take hits and continue to play without a problem.

Murray is not going to be running the ball 10 times a game. He should not be hit more than 2 or 3 times a game unless something goes wrong.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Tarik Cohen 181 pounds
Chris Johnson 195 pounds
Dion Lewis 195 pounds
Darren Sproles 190 pounds
Ronnie Hillman 195 pounds
Chris Thompson 193 pounds
Lance Dunbar 195 Pounds
Taiwan Jones 195 pounds
Dexter McCluster 170 Pounds
Kendall Hunter 199 Pounds
Kenjon Barner 195 pounds
Jamal Charles 199 Pounds

Do I need to go on?

Yes. First, outside of Charles and Johnson NONE OF THOSE GUYS EVER WERE 20 CARRY RBs.

Sproles was a third down back.

And outside of those two guys, NONE OF THOSE GUYS WERE EVEN GOOD.

And even your TWO examples were FIVE YEARS AGO.

How about ANYONE current?

I mean... did you really list Kendall Hunter... KENJON BARBER... TAIWAN JONES?! When the F were ANY of those guys 20 carry running backs?

I mean... DEXTER MCLUSTER?!

(I can't wait for you to come back with 1 game totals that exceeded that for each of them).

FAKE NEWS DUDE.

 

[PACardsFan]

I believe that Murray has the "it factor" as a QB. You either have it or you don't. He has intangibles that guys like Favre had & Wilson still has. Baker Mayfield seems to have it. Picking the right QB is the most important thing an NFL organization can do, but it's no easy task getting this right. You can basically get everything else wrong and still repeatedly make it to the playoffs with the right QB. I'm more convinced that Murray is that guy than I am that Rosen is that guy. It doesn't matter if we lose out on a guy like Bosa, as long as we get this right. It's not ridiculous to suggest that getting this decision right is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. My opinion is that it's Murray. More on this board feel it's Rosen. Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one. I just pray the Cardinals are lucky enough to make the right choice here. Hasn't this franchise been cursed enough? I don't care if I'm right or wrong, I just want to see a championship in my lifetime.

 

[Zeno]

Tarik Cohen 181 pounds
Chris Johnson 195 pounds
Dion Lewis 195 pounds
Darren Sproles 190 pounds
Ronnie Hillman 195 pounds
Chris Thompson 193 pounds
Lance Dunbar 195 Pounds
Taiwan Jones 195 pounds
Dexter McCluster 170 Pounds
Kendall Hunter 199 Pounds
Kenjon Barner 195 pounds
Jamal Charles 199 Pounds

Do I need to go on?

Chris Johnson and Jamal Charles are the only backs on that list that had any longevity as featured backs.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not the point - the point is they can take hits and continue to play without a problem.

Murray is not going to be running the ball 10 times a game. He should not be hit more than 2 or 3 times a game unless something goes wrong.

WHAT? No... the point is YOU said there's plenty of guys who can tote the rock 20 TIMES PER GAME. Those guys weren't ANYTHING like that outside of Charles and Johnson, who were the exception to the rule and then they're bodies broke down when they were 28.

And... a QB... is not going to get hit more than 2 or 3 times per game? Especially one that runs?!

This is becoming more of a joke with every next post.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Are we sure about the bolded part though Jetstream?

Let's be honest. You and I have zero idea what's going on behind the scenes, and why certain decisions are being made.

I understand its frustrating that he didn't run. And, I'm not even saying that you're undeniably wrong about the bolded part.

I know, I know. Mayfield went through all the drills and blah blah blah. Murray's behavior is questionable, and puzzling.

But its a leap to go from "he didn't run the 40 today" to "he has weak character".

He's given his detractors the ability to say it, sure, but I think you're a more reasonable man than that.

That's why I provided the caveat 'if' it was his idea and not his agent

 

[Crimson Warrior]

That's why I qualified that statement with 'if' it was his idea and not his agent

Forgive me sir. You're correct once again.

 

[Zeno]

Not the point - the point is they can take hits and continue to play without a problem.

Murray is not going to be running the ball 10 times a game. He should not be hit more than 2 or 3 times a game unless something goes wrong.

The lowest any QB was hit last year was 52 times, that’s the lowest, that’s more than 3 times per game. That’s just hits in the pocket. That doesn’t include tackles on scrambles downfield. The average team gives up over 90 QB hits a season (a little less than 6 a game) the Texans led the league with 126 hits on a scrambling QB. Part of Murray’s game is running the ball, that alone will increase his exposure to hits thus increasing his risk to injury.

Show me a team that can keep the QB from getting hit more than 2-3 times a game and you’ll be showing me one of the greatest OL in NFL history.

 

[PACardsFan]

Whether you can or can't get past the 5'10" obstacle, it's still obvious that Murray is a special QB. Everyone that watches him throw marvels at how effortless the ball comes off his hand. When you add his intangibles, it gets harder & harder to not put this guy at the top of this draft class. The Cardinals are at a crossroads. Even if Rosen improves, getting past mediocrity isn't a given. Murray is the real deal.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Forgive me sir. You're correct once again.

I am not saying that the kid could not be great, but only saying I do not feel the percentages are in his favor and we already have Rosen who I still like. That's the part which weighs on me, Murray is going to have to be great at his size to succeed and does not qualify for being just ordinary with his size in any scenario I can see and rolling the dice on what for me seems a long shot at greatness (though there) is a risk I personally would not draft so early in the first with all these defensive studs... here is the real question, what if Rosen will only be mediocre and Murray is a bust but one of the top defensive guys end up being a Hall of Famer, that's a regret we have not talked about

 

[PACardsFan]

The lowest any QB was hit last year was 52 times, that’s the lowest, that’s more than 3 times per game. That’s just hits in the pocket. That doesn’t include tackles on scrambles downfield. The average team gives up over 90 QB hits a season (a little less than 6 a game) the Texans led the league with 126 hits on a scrambling QB. Part of Murray’s game is running the ball, that alone will increase his exposure to hits thus increasing his risk to injury.

Show me a team that can keep the QB from getting hit more than 2-3 times a game and you’ll be showing me one of the greatest OL in NFL history.

Rosen has an injury history significantly longer than Murray's. Murray can avoid hits like no QB I've seen since Fran Tarkenton. Much greater chance that Rosen's career is cut shorter by injury than Murray's chances.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

CW-it does make one wonder what the rationale was behind the decision .After all it Pro_day in a controlled environment that he was familiar with.What more does he want or need?How much more secure and controlled can it be ?Makes methink he is afraid to run because of the added weight and the reduced quickness.Why he didn`t just go ahead and run and get this behind him and deal with the consequences or fallout and then he would have 5-6 weeks to do damage control if needed.

I wish I could say you're being unreasonable, BW52, but your not.

Even if he inflated his weight some for the combine, he had plenty of time to lose that amount, and run a 40 at his preferred weight at his pro day. He could have done that, and skipped the weigh in, if he thought that his reduced weight would have been an issue. I'm left to hope that he has a good reason for not doing this.

It's really, really puzzling, and he's opened the door for all of these questions.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Rosen has an injury history significantly longer than Murray's. Murray can avoid hits like no QB I've seen since Fran Tarkenton. Much greater chance that Rosen's career is cut shorter by injury than Murray's chances.

But Rosen has played longer than Murray, so the jury is still out

 

[Zeno]

Rosen has an injury history significantly longer than Murray's. Murray can avoid hits like no QB I've seen since Fran Tarkenton. Much greater chance that Rosen's career is cut shorter by injury than Murray's chances.

If you say so. Rosen showed last year he can take a beating and still get back up. When Murray is put through the same circumstances and proves durable I will believe it.

I saw what Murray did when faced with pressure, he is lucky he wasn’t picked off 4 times against Alabama, his accuracy was atrocious. Do you think the pass rush in the NFL is going to be any better? In that same game he also got tackled by his sleeve, his escapability didn’t overcome his lack of strength.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I am not saying that the kid could not be great, but only saying I do not feel the percentages are in his favor and we already have Rosen who I still like. That's the part which weighs on me, Murray is going to have to be great at his size to succeed and does not qualify for being just ordinary with his size in any scenario I can see and rolling the dice on what for me seems a long shot at greatness (though there) is a risk I personally would not draft so early in the first with all these defensive studs... here is the real question, what if Rosen will only be mediocre and Murray is a bust but one of the top defensive guys end up being a Hall of Famer, that's a regret we have not talked about

I think that's the most compelling argument for not drafting Murray Jetstream. If you told me Rosen + Bosa > Murray + Rosen trade compensation, I wouldn't agree, but I wouldn't argue with you either. It makes pretty good sense.

 

[PACardsFan]

I am not saying that the kid could not be great, but only saying I do not feel the percentages are in his favor and we already have Rosen who I still like. That's the part which weighs on me, Murray is going to have to be great at his size to succeed and does not qualify for being just ordinary with his size in any scenario I can see and rolling the dice on what for me seems a long shot at greatness (though there) is a risk I personally would not draft so early in the first with all these defensive studs... here is the real question, what if Rosen will only be mediocre and Murray is a bust but one of the top defensive guys end up being a Hall of Famer, that's a regret we have not talked about

I'm still baffled that some of us think that his size will limit him to ordinary status. Murray is anything but ordinary. His size will not have any impact whatsoever on his career. He will have a great NFL career & we will be sick if we don't pick him.

 

[Proximo]

Yes. First, outside of Charles and Johnson NONE OF THOSE GUYS EVER WERE 20 CARRY RBs.

Sproles was a third down back.

And outside of those two guys, NONE OF THOSE GUYS WERE EVEN GOOD.

And even your TWO examples were FIVE YEARS AGO.

How about ANYONE current?

I mean... did you really list Kendall Hunter... KENJON BARBER... TAIWAN JONES?! When the F were ANY of those guys 20 carry running backs?

I mean... DEXTER MCLUSTER?!

(I can't wait for you to come back with 1 game totals that exceeded that for each of them).

FAKE NEWS DUDE.

First you tell me there was nobody under 200 pounds who was a 20 carry back, now you tell me I only listed 2

Well OK I will list a few more who have had more than 20 carries under 200 pounds - but you will probably tell me they don't matter because they aren't current players.

Barry Sanders
Tiki Barber
Clinton Portis
Thurman Thomas

I will admit I was incorrect claiming there were tons that had 20 carry averages - but there are tons of backs that have played under 200 pounds over the years.

 

[Zeno]

I'm still baffled that some of us think that his size will limit him to ordinary status. Murray is anything but ordinary. His size will not have any impact whatsoever on his career. He will have a great NFL career & we will be sick if we don't pick him.

You said the same crap about Tebow. Not in regards to size but how he would have a great NFL career

 

[Zeno]

First you tell me there was nobody under 200 pounds who was a 20 carry back, now you tell me I only listed 2

Well OK I will list a few more who have had more than 20 carries under 200 pounds - but you will probably tell me they don't matter because they aren't current players.

Barry Sanders
Tiki Barber
Clinton Portis
Thurman Thomas

I will admit I was incorrect claiming there were tons that had 20 carry averages - but there are tons of backs that have played under 200 pounds over the years.

Sanders was 200, Barber 205, Portis 215, Thomas 205

 

[Jetstream Green]

I'm still baffled that some of us think that his size will limit him to ordinary status. Murray is anything but ordinary. His size will not have any impact whatsoever on his career. He will have a great NFL career & we will be sick if we don't pick him.

I am not saying his size will make him ordinary. I said at his size to succeed he will have to be great or he will not succeed at all... there's no average career on his horizon

 

[PACardsFan]

If you say so. Rosen showed last year he can take a beating and still get back up. When Murray is put through the same circumstances and proves durable I will believe it.

I saw what Murray did when faced with pressure, he is lucky he wasn’t picked off 4 times against Alabama, his accuracy was atrocious. Do you think the pass rush in the NFL is going to be any better? In that same game he also got tackled by his sleeve, his escapability didn’t overcome his lack of strength.

How many more seasons can Rosen take the hits he took last year? Not many. Even with a much better OLine, he will still take hits. Murray will take significantly less. You keep talking about 4 possible picks against Alabama. The fact of the matter is that he threw 0. Would of, could of, should of doesn't matter. He accounted for roughly 425 yards between his arm & his legs. And supposedly, you claim he stunk. I WAN'T that guy who stunk up the joint & still accounted for 425 yards of offense. That's just me. It took Rosen a month to accumulate those numbers.

 

[PACardsFan]

You said the same crap about Tebow. Not in regards to size but how he would have a great NFL career

Really. So now you want to compare Murray to Tebow?

 

[Zeno]

Really. So now you want to compare Murray to Tebow?

Nope. I am just comparing what you said then and now.

 

[Zeno]

How many more seasons can Rosen take the hits he took last year? Not many. Even with a much better OLine, he will still take hits. Murray will take significantly less. You keep talking about 4 possible picks against Alabama. The fact of the matter is that he threw 0. Would of, could of, should of doesn't matter. He accounted for roughly 425 yards between his arm & his legs. And supposedly, you claim he stunk. I WAN'T that guy who stunk up the joint & still accounted for 425 yards of offense. That's just me. It took Rosen a month to accumulate those numbers.

You really need to watch that game (he lost BTW), there is a good video showing every single snap he took. He was bad, 3 really good throws but a lot more poor ones.

 

[Proximo]

The lowest any QB was hit last year was 52 times, that’s the lowest, that’s more than 3 times per game. That’s just hits in the pocket. That doesn’t include tackles on scrambles downfield. The average team gives up over 90 QB hits a season (a little less than 6 a game) the Texans led the league with 126 hits on a scrambling QB. Part of Murray’s game is running the ball, that alone will increase his exposure to hits thus increasing his risk to injury.

Show me a team that can keep the QB from getting hit more than 2-3 times a game and you’ll be showing me one of the greatest OL in NFL history.

OK, you are right, 3 times a game is probably too low, I will admit I was just guesstimating.

With that said - a lot of those QB Hits in your stats don't amount to more than a tap or a shove down to the ground. They are mostly not equivalent to getting sacked, or a typical hit say a running back receives on most carries.