Murray to Cards a "done deal"

[DRM08]

The main reason this whole scenario is incredibly foolish to me is because of the draft value that we would be giving up. Lets say we trade Rosen for the 8th pick in the second round. The value of the pick is 500. The value of the #1 overall pick, which we would use to take Murray is 3000. So the difference going from Rosen to Murray is 2500.

2500 is equivalent to:

• #7 and #16
• #4 and #26
• #10, #40 and 2020 first

This doesn't even take into account the cap hit. All things being equal, I would be fine taking Murray over Rosen, but this price is absolutely insane. We will have Murray and the worst supporting cast in the league around him.

On top of the costs you mention, they gave up a 3rd round and 5th round pick to move from #15 to #10 to get Rosen in the first place. Add up all this stuff and you are right, the cost is insane to switch from Rosen to Kyler. Seems smarter to build around Rosen.

 

[Dr. Jones]

On top of the costs you mention, they gave up a 3rd round and 5th round pick to move from #15 to #10 to get Rosen in the first place. Add up all this stuff and you are right, the cost is insane to switch from Rosen to Kyler. Seems smarter to build around Rosen.

Even if he isn't the coaches chosen prospect?
Even if you are convinced that Kyler is going to win you more games?

Not saying they think that way about Kyler, but again...... It makes no sense betting another 500k at the poker table when you have a dog hand. That's just dumb IMO.

c'mon man

 

[Ohcrap75]

On top of the costs you mention, they gave up a 3rd round and 5th round pick to move from #15 to #10 to get Rosen in the first place. Add up all this stuff and you are right, the cost is insane to switch from Rosen to Kyler. Seems smarter to build around Rosen.

Nice point! Even if KK didn't believe Rosen is his guy. Build up the roster and accumulate picks to draft another QB next year. Probably have top three is Rosen sucks again.

 

[Shane]

Let's say we can get rosen for a 2nd round pick.
then let's say we trade that pick to Pittsburgh for Mr. Big Chest.

Does the thought of Kyler, David, Larry, and AB even excite you? A bit at least?


fyi..... I don't think this happens, but since we are all dreaming........

No not even a little...

 

[Russ Smith]

Even if he isn't the coaches chosen prospect?
Even if you are convinced that Kyler is going to win you more games?

Not saying they think that way about Kyler, but again...... It makes no sense betting another 500k at the poker table when you have a dog hand. That's just dumb IMO.

c'mon man

Yeah that's the only reason I'm even thinking out loud about it. They hired KK for a reason, so if he thinks he can with with Murray more than with Rosen, and the cost is not insane, you either let him do it or you should not have hired him.

I think the cost may be insane though. The more I play around on youtube watching Bosa, the more I think that kid is simply too good to pass up. I don't want to have that kid in our backfield for the next 10-12 years because we let SF pick him. I want them and the Rams etc to be worrying how the hell do we block that guy not the other way around.

So if we have to use the first pick to get Murray, I wouldn't do it.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Even if he isn't the coaches chosen prospect?
Even if you are convinced that Kyler is going to win you more games?

Not saying they think that way about Kyler, but again...... It makes no sense betting another 500k at the poker table when you have a dog hand. That's just dumb IMO.

c'mon man

How many more games can Kyler possibly win than Rosen without added talent? It's not if Kyler is better, it's how much better. If Kyler Murray is the only QB that can succeed in KK's offense then we are already screwed. He shouldn't have taken the job if he didn't believe in Rosen.

 

[Russ Smith]

How many more games can Kyler possibly win than Rosen without added talent? It's not if Kyler is better, it's how much better. If Kyler Murray is the only QB that can succeed in KK's offense then we are already screwed. He shouldn't have taken the job if he didn't believe in Rosen.

Devil's advocate maybe he knew Murray was probably turning pro and probably picking football and he knew we had the first pick and did the math?

 

[Buckybird]

Even if he isn't the coaches chosen prospect?
Even if you are convinced that Kyler is going to win you more games?

Not saying they think that way about Kyler, but again...... It makes no sense betting another 500k at the poker table when you have a dog hand. That's just dumb IMO.

c'mon man

It also makes no since to stay in if your holding a pair of 6’s & nothing else of significance on the turn either . Your folding & on to the next hand lol

 

[Ohcrap75]

Let's say we can get rosen for a 2nd round pick.
then let's say we trade that pick to Pittsburgh for Mr. Big Chest.

Does the thought of Kyler, David, Larry, and AB even excite you? A bit at least?


fyi..... I don't think this happens, but since we are all dreaming........

can you list our offensive line in this scenario?

 

[Dr. Jones]

How many more games can Kyler possibly win than Rosen without added talent? It's not if Kyler is better, it's how much better. If Kyler Murray is the only QB that can succeed in KK's offense then we are already screwed. He shouldn't have taken the job if he didn't believe in Rosen.

Well the honest answer is 14 IMO.

Because Josh had absolutely nothing to do with that win in GB. Fitz bailed him out with that circus level HOF highlight reel one hander.

I.E. That's a lotta games.

 

[Dr. Jones]

can you list our offensive line in this scenario?

Mason, Pugh, Hump, and two other guys. Maybe our #33 pick is one of those and only one more FA.

But your right..... O line needs to be a focus in the draft and FA.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Devil's advocate maybe he knew Murray was probably turning pro and probably picking football and he knew we had the first pick and did the math?

He couldn't have known for sure. What if A's offered Kyler $25M per year? What if he blew out his knee? At best our coach has incredibly bad judgment and doesn't have an adaptable offense as we were lead to believe

 

[Dr. Jones]

can you list our offensive line in this scenario?

It also stands to reason that we get a more mobile/versatile guy in our backfield who can elude a pass rusher now and then.

Rosen looked like a 2018 version of Drew Bledsoe.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Rosen looked like a 2018 version of Drew Bledsoe.

Find another comparison. I would take Drew Bledsoe for the next 10 years, easy.

 

[Ohcrap75]

Well the honest answer is 14 IMO.

Because Josh had absolutely nothing to do with that win in GB. Fitz bailed him out with that circus level HOF highlight reel one hander.

I.E. That's a lotta games.

You think Kyler Murray alone wins 16 games last season?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Find another comparison. I would take Drew Bledsoe for the next 10 years, easy.

You would? ugh....

Not saying he wasn't good, but he is definately not suited for the new game these boys are playing.

Pass rushers knew exactly where they needed to get to on every snap.

With your tighter lens..... I will say this: he looked like Ryan Leaf back there!

 

[Dr. Jones]

You think Kyler Murray alone wins 16 games last season?

No..... but it is possible! :-D

Not like Josh won us a lot of our 3 victories.

 

[Shane]

It also stands to reason that we get a more mobile/versatile guy in our backfield who can elude a pass rusher now and then.

Rosen looked like a 2018 version of Drew Bledsoe.

Hardly. Arent you dramatic today.

 

[Ohcrap75]

It also makes no since to stay in if your holding a pair of 6’s & nothing else of significance on the turn either . Your folding & on to the next hand lol

So we should go all in on a pair of 8's instead next hand?

 

[DRM08]

How many more games can Kyler possibly win than Rosen without added talent? It's not if Kyler is better, it's how much better. If Kyler Murray is the only QB that can succeed in KK's offense then we are already screwed. He shouldn't have taken the job if he didn't believe in Rosen.

I guess it depends on your view of the impact Kyler can make outside the pocket. He can make a crappy OL look much better than they are. Mahomes did that this year with the Chiefs. Even managed to help Eric Fisher make a Pro Bowl when he's basically dogshit and misses blocking assignments all the time. Mahomes' ability to avoid the pass rush and make throws outside the pocket bails out the OL more often than not. Murray has some of this ability. Rosen has none of it.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Hardly. Arent you dramatic today.

@RugbyMuffin would love Bledsoe.... and you think he was a dog!

Talk about an opinion delta!

Seriously though Shane. Your takes seem like they would never change given a reasonable debate. Not a criticism, just makes it hard to truly discuss options with that level of bias in one direction.

Heck, I'm not sure if Kyler is the answer, or if Rosen can get better in a way as to completely overshadow how horrible he was last year. What I do know is that Hope is a good thing! maybe even the best of things!

Buck up bronco!!!!

 

[Shane]

@RugbyMuffin would love Bledsoe.... and you think he was a dog!

Talk about an opinion delta!

Seriously though Shane. Your takes seem like they would never change given a reasonable debate. Not a criticism, just makes it hard to truly discuss options with that level of bias in one direction.

Heck, I'm not sure if Kyler is the answer, or if Rosen can get better in a way as to completely overshadow how horrible he was last year. What I do know is that Hope is a good thing! maybe even the best of things!

Buck up bronco!!!!

My take on Kyler isn't going to change. Until I see him be successful on an NFL football field and i'll gladly eat some crow. But I think the odds of him being a competent NFL starter for many years are about slim and none.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I guess it depends on your view of the impact Kyler can make outside the pocket. He can make a crappy OL look much better than they are. Mahomes did that this year with the Chiefs. Even managed to help Eric Fisher make a Pro Bowl when he's basically dogshit and misses blocking assignments all the time. Mahomes' ability to avoid the pass rush and make throws outside the pocket bails out the OL more often than not. Murray has some of this ability. Rosen has none of it.

Whatever... 1:10

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[HGC]

I guess it depends on your view of the impact Kyler can make outside the pocket. He can make a crappy OL look much better than they are. Mahomes did that this year with the Chiefs. Even managed to help Eric Fisher make a Pro Bowl when he's basically dogshit and misses blocking assignments all the time. Mahomes' ability to avoid the pass rush and make throws outside the pocket bails out the OL more often than not. Murray has some of this ability. Rosen has none of it.

Mahamoes and Reid are vastly superior to Murray and Kingsbury. You’re very reasonable in your views here on Kingsbury and far from a delusional Red Raiders fan. I understand people want to have optimism with Kingsbury but at the end of the day Keim didn’t hire Lincoln Riley who’s actually shown his prowess as a coach and not merely an offensive mind who can develop quarterbacks. Kingsbury on his own is gamble enough.

 

[DRM08]

Whatever, 1:10

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I can pull up footage of numerous "statue in pocket" quarterbacks doing the same thing. Doesn't change the fact they are statues in the pocket, for better or worse. Behind a crappy OL, you might prefer a more mobile guy.