Name change rumor?

[jon_nyaz]

Re: Yeah

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
They love the Cards name in Arizona.

They really care about tradition there.

That's why the opposing team has more fans at the game than the Cards.

Hey DuckEye,

Aside from changing the name, is there anything else we can do to have you switch your loyalites to another team?

 

[SECTION 11]

Re: Not The Point

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
The point is that there are a group of fans who hate the Cards name.

That must be the reason we're losin this year.

I think they hate the reality of almost non-existent fan support more than simply the name "Cardinals."

Nobody's naive enough to think that changing a name is going to translate instantly into W's.


Let me pose this question... If winning is the only cure for fan support, then why was there only 23,127 (in paid attendance, not actual attendance) at the home opener? We'd only lost one game at that point. We had a blossoming star in Boldin. We had a new start, a new season, yet nobody came. Why?

My answer is that nobody came because nobody cares about this team. Nobody cares because the consensus in the Valley is that this isn't their team.
Bringing fans in with wins alone is bringing in bandwagon, fair-weather fans. Great for a little while, but not a long term solution.
Bringing fans in with something they can call their own (like the Coyotes and Titans for example) is bringing in a fan base, like your Cubs, like your Browns, that will be with the team through thick and thin, not just when things are going well.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Yes

Originally posted by denverbirdfan
i like the fact that a handshake was depended on to make the phx stadium deal. it comes from a man's word is his bond thinking. stick with the name. if people don't feel as if this team "belongs to them" or they can't "identify" with it - tough sh*t. nobody said being a cardinal fan was easy fellas.

Well said my friend.

 

[Lex]

Buckeye- part of the reason there are more opposing teams fans at SDS, is because of the constant force feeding of "same old cardinals" crap down our throats by everyone including people like you.

Thank YOU very much, and by the way, we didn't take your team away from you, St. Louis residents ran them out.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Re: Re: Not The Point

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I think they hate the reality of almost non-existent fan support more than simply the name "Cardinals."

Nobody's naive enough to think that changing a name is going to translate instantly into W's.


Let me pose this question... If winning is the only cure for fan support, then why was there only 23,127 (in paid attendance, not actual attendance) at the home opener? We'd only lost one game at that point. We had a blossoming star in Boldin. We had a new start, a new season, yet nobody came. Why?

My answer is that nobody came because nobody cares about this team. Nobody cares because the consensus in the Valley is that this isn't their team.
Bringing fans in with wins alone is bringing in bandwagon, fair-weather fans. Great for a little while, but not a long term solution.
Bringing fans in with something they can call their own (like the Coyotes and Titans for example) is bringing in a fan base, like your Cubs, like your Browns, that will be with the team through thick and thin, not just when things are going well.

So fans only back teams who are winners.

If you're team sucks you don't root for them.

It's best to jump ship to a team that wins.

My God man....I didn't know how many fickle fans we had until this thread....no wonder we suck in Arizona....you guys are beyond pathetic.

 

[jon_nyaz]

Re: Re: Not The Point

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I think they hate the reality of almost non-existent fan support more than simply the name "Cardinals."

Nobody's naive enough to think that changing a name is going to translate instantly into W's.


Let me pose this question... If winning is the only cure for fan support, then why was there only 23,127 (in paid attendance, not actual attendance) at the home opener? We'd only lost one game at that point. We had a blossoming star in Boldin. We had a new start, a new season, yet nobody came. Why?

My answer is that nobody came because nobody cares about this team. Nobody cares because the consensus in the Valley is that this isn't their team.
Bringing fans in with wins alone is bringing in bandwagon, fair-weather fans. Great for a little while, but not a long term solution.
Bringing fans in with something they can call their own (like the Coyotes and Titans for example) is bringing in a fan base, like your Cubs, like your Browns, that will be with the team through thick and thin, not just when things are going well.

Exactly! And perfectly stated. There are so many reasons why changing the team identity makes sense. The two biggest reasons not to do it are alienating the out-of-state fans and the potential cost of the switch itself. However if done right, an identity change would help create loyalty amongst the locals. If combined with the new stadium and a couple of playoff seasons, we'd have a terrific platform to turn around the minds and hearts of everyone in Arizona!

True fans want what's best for the team. Jersey Girl is the kind of fan that the Cardinals need, not some of these other guys who only care about the name.

 

[SECTION 11]

Re: Well Said Jersey Girl

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
They're gonna ditch the out of state fans because that will increase the numbers at home games?

What a pure PR genius!!!

I tell you what, when all of the out of staters that are keeping this tradition alive fly into Phoenix, then head over to Sun Devil and sell that place out every home game, then I'll agree with your thinking.

Until then the handful of us locals that back this team will continue to keep 50K seats reserved.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Originally posted by Lex
Buckeye- part of the reason there are more opposing teams fans at SDS, is because of the constant force feeding of "same old cardinals" crap down our throats by everyone including people like you.

Thank YOU very much, and by the way, we didn't take your team away from you, St. Louis residents ran them out.

Buckeye Cardinal....doesn't sound like a St. Louis resident now does it.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Re: Re: Well Said Jersey Girl

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I tell you what, when all of the out of staters that are keeping this tradition alive fly into Phoenix, then head over to Sun Devil and sell that place out every home game, then I'll agree with your thinking.

Until then the handful of us locals that back this team will continue to keep 50K seats reserved.

Hey man...I'm a school teacher in Ohio....can't afford football games.

 

[denverbirdfan]

are you kidding me?

to assume we only care about the name is ridiculous!

fine...change the name - get some teal unis and sell a bunch of jersey and keep losing.

 

[Lex]

Buckeye- actually, you sound like a St. Louis resident, but I know you aren't, that's why I stated that St. Louis residents ran them out, not "you" ran them out.

 

[SECTION 11]

Re: Re: Re: Not The Point

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
So fans only back teams who are winners.

If you're team sucks you don't root for them.

It's best to jump ship to a team that wins.

My God man....I didn't know how many fickle fans we had until this thread....no wonder we suck in Arizona....you guys are beyond pathetic.

This interpretation is the complete opposite of the point of my post. The point is to create fans that DON'T do exactly what you're saying.



On a side note, I'm there for every home game. One of the few. You couldn't drag me away from this team.

 

[Pariah]

Re: Re: Re: Well Said Jersey Girl

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
Hey man...I'm a school teacher in Ohio....can't afford football games.

What, is it recess right now?

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Well Said Jersey Girl

Originally posted by Pariah
What, is it recess right now?

Got a day off Pariah....ya want to change the name too?

 

[jon_nyaz]

Re: Re: Re: Well Said Jersey Girl

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
Hey man...I'm a school teacher in Ohio....can't afford football games.

Well what do you want us to pay the players with Mr. Die Hard, apples from your students?

Your whole attitude on this issue is selfish and caustic. Guys like Section 11, Lex and me are serious die-hard fans. We spend lots of money, time and emotional energy supporting this team despite the fact that it just ain't fun. It's our loyalty to the team and to the State of Arizona that keeps us going. All we want is something to sink our teeth into that makes the experience enjoyable. Changing the identity of the team would really enhance the experience for us local fans. And having a stadium full of fans that all want your team to win is thrilling. And putting butts in seats gives the team more revenue to spend on better players. And on and on. Fact is, there's nothing you can do to help this team besides buy an occasional ball cap or tee-shirt. So while your opinion matters, you might want to consider the rest of us that have a bigger impact on the team itself.

 

[SECTION 11]

Re: are you kidding me?

Originally posted by denverbirdfan
to assume we only care about the name is ridiculous!

fine...change the name - get some teal unis and sell a bunch of jersey and keep losing.

Or said another way...

fine...keep the name - 25,000 is a terrific fan base.



Nobody only cares about a friggin team name.

Teal sucks. I'm partial to red.



It's interesting that so much of the opposition is out of state.

 

[seesred]

I've never missed a game , even followed them to San Diego, San FRan, and the big Dallas playoff game. I own 7 seats and would love to see big changes including uniforms logo and name....

GBR

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

I Think

Originally posted by jon_nyaz
Thanks for taking a rational, unselfish stance on this issue Jersey Girl - - though it may only be a rumor. A true fan wants what's best for the team and you obviously stand for that. You should be applauded! The next time you want to come see a game at Sun Devil Stadium, let me know and I will provide you great seats (at least as great as can be expected) at no expense to you.

I think she said she would change team allegiance....and you think that's OK?

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

I Give

"It's interesting that so much of the opposition is out of state."

__________________

You guys must know best.

Change the name.

 

[SECTION 11]

Re: I Think

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
I think she said she would change team allegiance....and you think that's OK?

It's no more OK than maintaining a 25K fan base.

 

[Pariah]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well Said Jersey Girl

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
Got a day off Pariah....ya want to change the name too?

If I had my druthers, no. But, I'd still be a fan if they did change it (particularly to the Calvary--I kinda like that).

I just think you're taking this all a little personally. No one on this board has the power to change the name. So you don't want it changed. So Jon does want it changed. So what? So you disagree. It's not like there's an absolute truth in here somewhere.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well Said Jersey Girl

Originally posted by Pariah
If I had my druthers, no. But, I'd still be a fan if they did change it (particularly to the Calvary--I kinda like that).

I just think you're taking this all a little personally. No one on this board has the power to change the name. So you don't want it changed. So Jon does want it changed. So what? So you disagree. It's not like there's an absolute truth in here somewhere.

Yes I am.....not personally as in attacking Buckeye Cardinal....he's got thick skin....but as attacking the Cards....I'm about ready to say ***** you guys....you don't want out of state fans....the Cards name has no meaning or tradition to anyone.....you must be correct.

 

[Pariah]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well Said Jersey Girl

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
Yes I am.....not personally as in attacking Buckeye Cardinal....he's got thick skin....but as attacking the Cards....I'm about ready to say ***** you guys....you don't want out of state fans....the Cards name has no meaning or tradition to anyone.....you must be correct.

I don't think people are saying "name and tradition has no meaning to anyone." I think what people are saying is that when weighing a new name and the benefits that may be associted with it vs. the Cardinals name and benefits associated with the tradition, they prefer to have the new name. It's an opinion and I don't think it's an opinion meant to exclude out-of-state fans (of which, I am one).

But, I believe NFL teams DO need to take into account the fans in their homes state first. Those are the fans that generate attendence and those are the fans that are likely to grow in number much more quickly--exponentially, in fact.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by JeffGollin

Determining who you root for is probably 95% emotional and 5% rational (in fact, make that 100%/0%). It's hard, therefore, to know how our emotions might shift should they change the team name.

Do we root for the name? The uniform? The city? Certain players? The owners (hmmm)? The team's W's & L's? Because we always did root for them? It's hard to determine hypothetically how that would all sort out.

Jeff:

The only things that still endure about NFL teams, usually, are the name and ownership. And even those aren't guaranteed, any more.

Players no longer spend their careers with the same team. Even the best coaches are only one or two bad seasons away from unemployment. Teams switch cities at the drop of a stadium. Parity has almost eliminated both dynasties and the perennially downtrodden (I said, "almost.") Uniforms get freshened, if not changed completely, whenever the merchandise sales start to slacken.

All that remains for long-term fans like BuckeyeCardinal and others like him are the name and identity--and, for now, the dated logo and uniforms--of the Chicago/ St. Louis/ Phoenix/ Arizona Cardinals. That, or his affection for the Bidwill family. If they show up in turquoise-and-sand unis for the 2006 season as the Glendale Gila Monsters, what's he supposed to root for? The last vestige of the team he's followed since childhood will be gone.

I understand and agree with the concept of rebranding. The local example of Winnipeg Jets to Phoenix Coyotes is a case study. Heck, the Coyotes have already changed their unis again, both to coincide with their new facility and to spur merchandise sales, which were disappointing. The team that beat the Cards last week, the Ravens, were more enthusiastically received by their current fans than they would've been as "the Baltimore Browns." I could go on.

But I think that window of opportunity has closed for the Cardinals, new stadium or not. I endorse a complete reworking of their logo and unis, which haven't changed significantly in decades and are less contemporary than many high schools'. However, after 15 years in this state, and 85 years in continuous operation, they're gonna remain the Cardinals. For better or worse.

WC

 

[SECTION 11]

The Coyotes suck. Why do they continue to draw fans?

Phoenix is a young city with a transient population.
The Winnepeg Jets moved to Phoenix, changed their identity, kept their tradition and have succeeded in terms of building a fan base, despite lousy ownership. THIS situation is at the moment the only professional sports comparison that's valid as far as I'm concerned. Comparing this situation to Cubs fans just isn't logical.