NBA Off Season Thread

Mainstreet

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Talking about Green again, the Heat signed him for a one year contract for a reported $1.4 million salary.

Wow. That is so cheap the Suns should have considered keeping him unless they felt they wanted to go a different direction at SF or it would mess up the rotation. But that is so cheap to get a shooter.
 

Mainstreet

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I kinda guessed they would do something completely idiotic when the Boogie/Karl issues came up earlier this summer, but never thought they would do something like this. Any protection on that 2018 pick that you know of? I think that team will struggle mightily this year and Boogie prob gets traded mid-season.

What a mess the Kings have created. There does not appear to be any communication and leadership based upon personnel moves. I wish the Suns could have gotten in on it but they were tied up with Aldridge in FA.
 

CardsFan88

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Well, Lebron will continue to be the coach and GM of the Cavaliers with a 2 yr ~46 million dollar deal with a 2nd year player option.

Except he's the only one with the golden parachute when his decisions screw up the Cavs.

Do as I say, and when it doesn't work, I'm a ghost.

Great leadership Lebron. I can see this ending very badly. Maybe it won't, but Lebron has set it up perfectly for himself, but horribly for everyone else. If it wins a championship, then good for him, if not, and it likely won't, then he'll be the architect of it all.

Constantly appeasing a basketball player and doing short term things for that player, is not how you build long term success. It's the Wall Street way of doing things. Which means, we may see some new highs, but there will likely be a ton destruction left in its wake.

It's like that because again, he's basically forcing the Cavaliers to do whatever he wants, no matter how stupid, to show him they are 'serious', and pay through the nose on tax, even super tax, and because that pressure for Lebron to leave is there, they aren't using their resources wisely.

The Cavs or any professional team can't bend over for LeBron or any player and break the bank every year... or else.

Lebron will only have himself to blame if this goes sour.
 
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SO91

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What a mess the Kings have created. There does not appear to be any communication and leadership based upon personnel moves. I wish the Suns could have gotten in on it but they were tied up with Aldridge in FA.

Yep, getting a guy you can build around would have been amazing, but completely fleecing another team would have been a close 2nd in terms of enjoyment for me.
 

Mainstreet

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Yep, getting a guy you can build around would have been amazing, but completely fleecing another team would have been a close 2nd in terms of enjoyment for me.

Nothing more satisfying than winning a trade. And it is not even difficult with the Kings.
 

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Another interesting tidbit on ESPN about Lebron's contract.

He could of waited a few days and this would of enabled somehow Tristan Thompson to get a bit more money. That's per ESPN.... I don't know how, but that's what they said.

Instead he signed it and screwed Thompson. What a great leader. I'm pretty sure the contract for Lebron wouldn't of been pulled, and of course it's after 4th of July so I don't think Lebron has to worry about blowing off his fingers.

How does that old adage go about being a leader, like in war... never be in a position to take from the men. Well Lebron never learned that I suppose.

Oh and apparently it was at least a million dollars.
 
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Phrazbit

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Talking about Green again, the Heat signed him for a one year contract for a reported $1.4 million salary.

Wow. That is so cheap the Suns should have considered keeping him unless they felt they wanted to go a different direction at SF or it would mess up the rotation. But that is so cheap to get a shooter.

On most nights Green is a flat out awful player. Its why he had to settle for that contract, most of the league is wise to guys like him. Sure, he can win a game for you on occasion by getting hot, but during the gap in between hot games he kills his own team. His only consistent is terrible defense.
 

Phrazbit

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Another interesting tidbit on ESPN about Lebron's contract.

He could of waited a few days and this would of enabled somehow Tristan Thompson to get a bit more money. That's per ESPN.... I don't know how, but that's what they said.

Instead he signed it and screwed Thompson. What a great leader. I'm pretty sure the contract for Lebron wouldn't of been pulled, and of course it's after 4th of July so I don't think Lebron has to worry about blowing off his fingers.

If not for LeBron James' influence the Cavs would probably be looking to sign and trade Thompson and Thompson certainly would not have any prayer of landing the kind of contract he is demanding.

If he gets 20 million per year... yikes. I know the cap is going up but that is a TON of money for a guy who is useless outside of 6 feet as an offensive player and mediocre as a defender. His only real strength is on the glass, and while he is good there he isn't exactly elite.

The guy is not a max player. Last year he averaged 8 and 8 in 26 minutes a game. His playoff averages of 9 and 10 in 36 minutes were actually less productive. To give a max deal for that... is insane. In a couple years it will probably be looked upon as the dumbest deal in an offseason full of crazy contract.
 
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Cheesebeef

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Another interesting tidbit on ESPN about Lebron's contract.

He could of waited a few days and this would of enabled somehow Tristan Thompson to get a bit more money. That's per ESPN.... I don't know how, but that's what they said.

Instead he signed it and screwed Thompson. What a great leader. I'm pretty sure the contract for Lebron wouldn't of been pulled, and of course it's after 4th of July so I don't think Lebron has to worry about blowing off his fingers.

How does that old adage go about being a leader, like in war... never be in a position to take from the men. Well Lebron never learned that I suppose.

Oh and apparently it was at least a million dollars.

lol... he "screwed" Thompson? LeBron is the ONLY reason Thompson was offered the ridiculous amount of money he was offered and will probably eventually sign for.
 

Phrazbit

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lol... he "screwed" Thompson? LeBron is the ONLY reason Thompson was offered the ridiculous amount of money he was offered and will probably eventually sign for.

Seriously.

His team had a great year and a deep playoff run, and somehow during that trip Tristian Thompson went from being a decent reserve big to a potential max player. The list of guys who out produced Thompson this season is long and undistinguished. It would be one thing if he were an elite defender but he isn't.
 

SO91

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Seriously.

His team had a great year and a deep playoff run, and somehow during that trip Tristian Thompson went from being a decent reserve big to a potential max player. The list of guys who out produced Thompson this season is long and undistinguished. It would be one thing if he were an elite defender but he isn't.

No kidding. TT is a slightly better Thomas Robinson with a better agent, situation and connections.
 

Phrazbit

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No kidding. TT is a slightly better Thomas Robinson with a better agent, situation and connections.

Yeah, IMO he is JJ Hickson.

A decent player but, and I said this many times during the playoffs, if he were the PF on the Suns we'd be hoping to upgrade the position.
 

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lol... he "screwed" Thompson? LeBron is the ONLY reason Thompson was offered the ridiculous amount of money he was offered and will probably eventually sign for.

LOL at everyone who overlooked the fact, and it is a fact, that Lebron not waiting, cost Tristan an additional million plus dollars.

That is being screwed, no matter anything else.

It was an opportunity for him to get his guy an additional million plus, and he didn't do it.

You can say Lebron's unholy pressure got him the contract, but Lebron's selfishness (unless it was simply overlooked and not known) and impatience cost him over a million dollars.

That is being screwed, no if's, and's, or but's.

The two are separate, it is wrong to lump those together.

I understand the reasoning, but nevertheless, Lebron cost him money AFTER the fact. He giveth and he taketh away, but apparently the giveth only matters.
 
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Cheesebeef

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LOL at everyone who overlooked the fact, and it is a fact, that Lebron not waiting, cost Tristan an additional million plus dollars.

That is being screwed, no matter anything else.

It was an opportunity for him to get his guy an additional million plus, and he didn't do it.

You can say Lebron's unholy pressure got him the contract, but Lebron's selfishness (unless it was simply overlooked and not known) and impatience cost him over a million dollars.

again, you are completely overlooking that Thompson is going to get WAY over market value because of LeBron and LeBron alone. You can't screw someone out of what they shouldn't get in the first place.

Furthermore, LeBron is the best player on the planet and shouldn't have to take less money for ANYONE.
 

Cheesebeef

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LOL at everyone who overlooked the fact, and it is a fact, that Lebron not waiting, cost Tristan an additional million plus dollars.

That is being screwed, no matter anything else.

It was an opportunity for him to get his guy an additional million plus, and he didn't do it.

You can say Lebron's unholy pressure got him the contract, but Lebron's selfishness (unless it was simply overlooked and not known) and impatience cost him over a million dollars.

That is being screwed, no if's, and's, or but's.

wrong... he didn't cost him anything. he RAISED what he should be getting in the first place. How are you this blind to this reality?

The two are separate, it is wrong to lump those together.

...and are people really so sure how much he would of gotten elsewhere given all the insane deals we've seen this summer?

Yes. He's ON THE MARKET and no one will touch him with a ten foot pole. And before you say he's restricted, well, that didn't deter the Blazers from signing Kanter to an insane offer sheet today at 4/70. Reality is that NO ONE has offered him anything and the Cavs have apparently already offered 5 years 85 million. The ONLY reason he's getting that is LeBron.
 

CardsFan88

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again, you are completely overlooking that Thompson is going to get WAY over market value because of LeBron and LeBron alone. You can't screw someone out of what they shouldn't get in the first place.

Furthermore, LeBron is the best player on the planet and shouldn't have to take less money for ANYONE.

I'm not overlooking it Cheese. These are disparate actions. They aren't convoluted together. You don't net them out.

He could of had his cake and ate it too, but Lebron ate his cake.

Less money? Who said anything about Lebron getting less money?


You are also forgetting, my previous post about Lebron forcing the Cavs. He can in reality both reward and screw a person at the same time.

You don't overlook one because of the other.
 

CardsFan88

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wrong... he didn't cost him anything. he RAISED what he should be getting in the first place. How are you this blind to this reality?

How are you blind to the following reality Cheese.

Day 1: Lebron uses his holy power to get TT a better then deserved contract


Day 8 (or whatever) Lebron is impatient about blowing off his fingers before signing a contract, so he doesn't wait a few days to get his guy an additional million.

These are two actions. Two actions aren't one.

Lebron waiting a few days gets this guy more money and he doesn't ONLY BECAUSE Lebron didn't wait.

Thus Lebron DID in fact screw him out of an ADDITIONAL million plus dollars.

This is not debatable.


I think what the problem is Cheese, is you see the two situations as one, and I see them as separate events. This is what they were. He could of waited and gotten his guy more money, and now even if TT is happy with his contract, somewhere in the back of his mind he might be thinking he lost out on an additional million plus because Lebron didn't wait.

TT had already agreed to that sort of contract, that was set in stone. Now this comes along AFTER, and is an opportunity for him to get his guy more money. Instead he screws him out of it.
 
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Cheesebeef

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I'm not overlooking it Cheese. These are disparate actions. They aren't convoluted together. You don't net them out.

He could of had his cake and ate it too, but Lebron ate his cake.

LeBron MADE his cake and is under no obligation to wait for him to sign an incredibly over-sized contract. And you say all he had to do was wait a couple days... how do you know that? what if this thing drags out? And did Kevin Love screw him over also by signing immediately?

Less money? Who said anything about Lebron getting less money?

Misread your post.

My post still stands. LeBron is under no obligation to get Thompson that extra million. Thompson could have done that himself if he just accepted whatever ludicrous deal Cleveland already offered him that LeBron probably all but negotiated.
 

Cheesebeef

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How are you blind to the following reality Cheese.

Day 1: Lebron uses his holy power to get TT a better then deserved contract


Day 8 (or whatever) Lebron is impatient about blowing off his fingers before signing a contract, so he doesn't wait a few days to get his guy an additional million.

These are two actions. Two actions aren't one.

Lebron waiting a few days gets this guy more money and he doesn't ONLY BECAUSE Lebron didn't wait.

Thus Lebron DID in fact screw him out of an ADDITIONAL million plus dollars.

This is not debatable.


I think what the problem is Cheese, is you see the two situations as one, and I see them as separate events. This is what they were. He could of waited and gotten his guy more money, and now even if TT is happy with his contract, somewhere in the back of his mind he might be thinking he lost out on an additional million plus because Lebron didn't wait.

TT had already agreed to that sort of contract, that was set in stone. Now this comes along AFTER, and is an opportunity for him to get his guy more money. Instead he screws him out of it.

sorry man... Thompson never deserved the money he was offered, only was offered it because of LeBron and could have AGREED to the deal a week ago but didn't... THAT'S ON THOMPSON. What LeBron does afterward doesn't matter because Thompson screwed himself by not taking the deal offered to him, which was more then anyone in their right mind would offer him, unless LeBron forced them to. Plain and simple.
 

CardsFan88

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LeBron MADE his cake and is under no obligation to wait for him to sign an incredibly over-sized contract. And you say all he had to do was wait a couple days... how do you know that? what if this thing drags out? And did Kevin Love screw him over also by signing immediately?



Misread your post.

My post still stands. LeBron is under no obligation to get Thompson that extra million. Thompson could have done that himself if he just accepted whatever ludicrous deal Cleveland already offered him that LeBron probably all but negotiated.

I agree he is under no obligation.

Still though, when he's acting as GM, Coach, and leader... I personally wouldn't want to be a guy who simply by waiting and signing, I lost one of those guys I am leading over a million dollars.

I mean it's Lebron, he's rich, they are not pulling the offer, what's the difference between signing it now and four days from now? That's the point. It's such a small thing to ask, with such a big reward for a guy he means to lead, and it's better just to do it right.

Even if I was obligated to wait four days, I would volunteer to wait 40 or more if need be to get my guy an additional million + dollars.

Maybe it did screw Love. ESPN is the one who reported it. So unless they are wrong, he screwed TT out of more money for the sake of not waiting four days.

It's just not much to ask for a big benefit.
 

Phrazbit

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LOL at everyone who overlooked the fact, and it is a fact, that Lebron not waiting, cost Tristan an additional million plus dollars.

That is being screwed, no matter anything else.

It was an opportunity for him to get his guy an additional million plus, and he didn't do it.

You can say Lebron's unholy pressure got him the contract, but Lebron's selfishness (unless it was simply overlooked and not known) and impatience cost him over a million dollars.

That is being screwed, no if's, and's, or but's.

The two are separate, it is wrong to lump those together.

I understand the reasoning, but nevertheless, Lebron cost him money AFTER the fact. He giveth and he taketh away, but apparently the giveth only matters.


He isn't costing Thompson anything. If NOT for LeBron demanding that Cleveland pay Thompson then Thompson would not get anywhere near the money he is going to get.

Thompson's ONLY power in this negotiation is that LeBron wants him around and they share the same agent (also a crony of LeBron).

If you want to attack LeBron in this situation you're taking the wrong angle. Thompson is NOT the victim, he is the farthest thing from the victim, he is the MASSIVE profiteer in LeBron's selfish game. The victim is the Cavs.

What is best for the Cavs would probably be to deal Thompson in a sign and trade while his value is high, but they cannot because they are being held hostage by LeBron and his cronies.
 

CardsFan88

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He isn't costing Thompson anything. If NOT for LeBron demanding that Cleveland pay Thompson then Thompson would not get anywhere near the money he is going to get.

Thompson's ONLY power in this negotiation is that LeBron wants him around and they share the same agent (also a crony of LeBron).

If you want to attack LeBron in this situation you're taking the wrong angle. Thompson is NOT the victim, he is the farthest thing from the victim, he is the MASSIVE profiteer in LeBron's selfish game. The victim is the Cavs.

What is best for the Cavs would probably be to deal Thompson in a sign and trade while his value is high, but they cannot because they are being held hostage by LeBron and his cronies.

I've acknowledged that Lebron is running things, I even stated that it probably will completely screw over the Cavs... AND that Lebron is the only one with a golden parachute. I.E. He has the 2 year deal with an opt out after this year.

If his moves to load up the Cavs with super luxury tax levels for mediocre or on the downward spiral players, he can leave Cleveland holding the bag again. (I hope he knows he can't leave without him basically being a most wanted person in Ohio)

That said, this isn't about a negotiation. The negotiation was over. Lebron helped him with that. That's all true. He got that money.

...But now he could of gotten him even more. Not from negotiation, but by the process with which these things are signed or turned in or whatever. Just format.

I am rightly attacking Lebron AGAIN because his impatience ACTUALLY cost his guy that he helped out over a million dollars in a separate event.

It once again shows everyone that Lebron is really only in it for himself. Even those he helps, he'll screw over, to the tune of over a million dollars, for not being able to wait four days. Perhaps he didn't know, I'll leave an opening for that, but somehow I doubt it.

Again if I'm leading someone, even if I've helped them massively, I still don't want to let something small hurt one of those guys. In the end despite the pay raise, in reality, he will still be getting less then he could of gotten. That's a loss even when in total he's gaining. He's just gaining less, and again, only because Lebron couldn't wait the horror, a full 4 days per ESPN.

...and the less he's getting is the tune of over a million dollars. I mean if someone got you a job, great, you're thankful no doubt... but then you find out that your friend forgot to do something or did do something which cost you an additional...say five dollars an hour. Yeah it still happened, even if you are still thankful to that person, they still hypothetically cost you five dollars an hour more. A job is better then none... but that job with five more an hour would be even better. To say both situations are equal is wrong.
 
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Phrazbit

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LeBron wasn't impatient. The Cavs do not have LeBron's bird rights, they cannot go over the cap and still sign LeBron. As of the 9th (today) once contracts started becoming official then LeBron needed to be locked in or the Cavs the realities of the cap would have kept them from signing him.

LeBron HAD to sign today. Period. The only alternative would have been to convince literally EVERYONE on the Cavs who was up for a contract to hold off until Thompson was done dragging his feet on an absolutely gift wrapped idiotic contract. Once guys started getting locked in LeBron HAD to sign, Cleveland NEEDED him to sign or they wouldn't have the cap space for him. They can keep Thompson by exceeding the cap and LeBron signing today, yesterday or in 1000 years does not change that.

There is absolutely no way to frame this is LeBron costing Thompson anything. If Thompson has less money in the pool to dip into then its no ones fault but his own and the ONLY reason he is getting the money he is getting is because of LeBron's influence.
 

CardsFan88

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LeBron wasn't impatient. The Cavs do not have LeBron's bird rights, they cannot go over the cap and still sign LeBron. As of the 9th (today) once contracts started becoming official then LeBron needed to be locked in or the Cavs the realities of the cap would have kept them from signing him.

LeBron HAD to sign today. Period. The only alternative would have been to convince literally EVERYONE on the Cavs who was up for a contract to hold off until Thompson was done dragging his feet on an absolutely gift wrapped idiotic contract. Once guys started getting locked in LeBron HAD to sign, Cleveland NEEDED him to sign or they wouldn't have the cap space for him. They can keep Thompson by exceeding the cap and LeBron signing today, yesterday or in 1000 years does not change that.

There is absolutely no way to frame this is LeBron costing Thompson anything. If Thompson has less money in the pool to dip into then its no ones fault but his own and the ONLY reason he is getting the money he is getting is because of LeBron's influence.

Hey maybe your information is better then ESPN's. Because this is what they said. I'm not trying to argue for argument sake. If their info is faulty, it's faulty. But they said, that if Lebron waited 4 days, he would of gotten him over a million dollars more.

Despite helping him, if true, that oversight would of cost him more money, and he would of in fact screwed TT despite helping him earlier.
 

Phrazbit

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i don't see how it can be framed as "screwed" when LeBron's help is going to get Thompson about 40 million more than he is worth, regardless of if some weird cap situation might only make is 39 million more than he is worth.

Whatever you read on or heard ESPN I wonder if the person forgot that the Cavs do not have Bird Rights on LeBron. They cannot go over the cap until he is locked in, signing Thompson first would have put them over the cap and therefore unable to sign LeBron. I don't see how its remotely possible that he cost Thompson a dime.

And even if it was somehow true that LeBron signing first diminishes the pool, I still think that is entirely on Thompson because he owes all his good fortune to LeBron in the first place and he only lost out one a fraction of that ridiculous contract because he was dragging his feet.

LeBron IS a villain in this situation, but not for the reasons you think. He is manipulating the Cavs, and the benefactor is Thompson. He should be kneeling at LeBron's feet for this laughable fortune he is about to stumble into.
 

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