New OC Drew Petzing Introductory Presser

[Solar7]

The depth isn't high end talent for CBs in this draft. It's a stretch that guys in the top of the second will be as good as a good starter right away.

Also letting Murphy walk creates another hole. Just say no to a 2nd round CB. And besides, just run through the mock draft simulators and you'll quickly see the IOL is mostly gone after round 2. There are enough decent CBs in this draft that you can find on after round 2.

For me with Murphy, it's all about cost. And as it doesn't look like we're tagging anyone, there's no "letting" someone walk, it's all up to them. Also, my main problem with Murphy has been a combination of availability and position. He was drafted to be a slot CB, and that was just too high. We need a guy who can run with the #1s, IMO.

But again, it's less about having to take a corner, but that the availability of so many of them that are first round kind of prospects makes me think we may have options that are really top-tier coming out of the first round.

Marco was the Cardinals best CB last year. He had a really good season. I don't really see a reason to doubt him.

Good enough to be a #1? I'm not really seeing that yet. Frankly though, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as I rarely keyed in on him, but we were the 8th worse in total passing yards against last year, and dead last in completion percentage. I don't know if I love the idea of bringing back both of those guys as our #1 and #2 and calling it set for the next few years.

Free agency is an AWFUL way to build the trenches. The only way is through the draft.

I fundamentally agree with you, but we're stuck in a situation where we only have so many picks and far too many holes to fill at starting positions.

 

[Krangodnzr]

For me with Murphy, it's all about cost. And as it doesn't look like we're tagging anyone, there's no "letting" someone walk, it's all up to them. Also, my main problem with Murphy has been a combination of availability and position. He was drafted to be a slot CB, and that was just too high. We need a guy who can run with the #1s, IMO.

But again, it's less about having to take a corner, but that the availability of so many of them that are first round kind of prospects makes me think we may have options that are really top-tier coming out of the first round.

The Cardinals will be running a zone defense. Similar to Joseph's scheme. No need to use MORE draft capital to fill holes. The Cardinals were ranked like #1 or #2 in the NFL against #1 receivers last year, so yes, Murphy and Wilson were good enough.

Good enough to be a #1? I'm not really seeing that yet. Frankly though, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as I rarely keyed in on him, but we were the 8th worse in total passing yards against last year, and dead last in completion percentage. I don't know if I love the idea of bringing back both of those guys as our #1 and #2 and calling it set for the next few years.


I fundamentally agree with you, but we're stuck in a situation where we only have so many picks and far too many holes to fill at starting positions.

Then why fill holes that can be filled with resigning a guy? If Murphy isn't too expensive, bring him back.

Every year we all get enamored with the new shiny toys and we forget that most of these guys are going to suck.

FYI both McShay and Kiper say this is one of the worst drafts in recent memory. Just not a lot of high end talent.

 

[Solar7]

The Cardinals will be running a zone defense. Similar to Joseph's scheme. No need to use MORE draft capital to fill holes. The Cardinals were ranked like #1 or #2 in the NFL against #1 receivers last year, so yes, Murphy and Wilson were good enough.

You glossed over my point later in that post where we gave up the highest completion percentage in the league, and the 8th highest yards against. That's not really good enough.

Then why fill holes that can be filled with resigning a guy? If Murphy isn't too expensive, bring him back.

Cost, and that the guy can't stay on the field. He only played 9 games last season. I'm all for bringing him back at a reasonable price, but would rather find someone with a higher ceiling in a perfect world. Again, not insisting we have to go CB at the top of the 2nd, just very worried about seeing us reach for a C/G at the top of the 2nd because we have to fill a hole.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You glossed over my point later in that post where we gave up the highest completion percentage in the league, and the 8th highest yards against. That's not really good enough.

Not against #1 receivers though. The Cardinals were mostly beat by TEs, RBs, and slot receivers.

Cost, and that the guy can't stay on the field. He only played 9 games last season. I'm all for bringing him back at a reasonable price, but would rather find someone with a higher ceiling in a perfect world. Again, not insisting we have to go CB at the top of the 2nd, just very worried about seeing us reach for a C/G at the top of the 2nd because we have to fill a hole.

It's all about needs. The Cardinals biggest issues over the years have been the OL and DL. CB was fine last year, and most of the same players should remain.

And the concept of reaching is silly. It's a Mel Kiperism. Draft the players you want, where you are comfortable drafting them.

 

[Solar7]

Not against #1 receivers though. The Cardinals were mostly beat by TEs, RBs, and slot receivers.

It's all about needs. The Cardinals biggest issues over the years have been the OL and DL. CB was fine last year, and most of the same players should remain.

And the concept of reaching is silly. It's a Mel Kiperism. Draft the players you want, where you are comfortable drafting them.

I'm not about replacing holes that don't need to be replaced, but honestly, I don't see why Byron Murphy or Zach Allen want to play here unless we give them the best deal on the market for their services. Do they really want to come back to a team that won't have its starting QB until midseason or more? Just to endure another season where they're more likely to contend for the #1 overall pick than a playoff spot?

Also, no, reaching is very much a thing. Remember when we took Levi Brown over Adrian Peterson? That's all because we had a hole to fill that we didn't prepare for in Free Agency.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm not about replacing holes that don't need to be replaced, but honestly, I don't see why Byron Murphy or Zach Allen want to play here unless we give them the best deal on the market for their services. Do they really want to come back to a team that won't have its starting QB until midseason or more? Just to endure another season where they're more likely to contend for the #1 overall pick than a playoff spot?

Familiarity. Players do it all of the time.

Also, no, reaching is very much a thing. Remember when we took Levi Brown over Adrian Peterson? That's all because we had a hole to fill that we didn't prepare for in Free Agency.

You're talking about the fifth overall pick. And you're also talking about value.

At 34 it's not likely that you'll be passing on a HOF player for an OL.

 

[BritCard]

I'm not about replacing holes that don't need to be replaced, but honestly, I don't see why Byron Murphy or Zach Allen want to play here unless we give them the best deal on the market for their services. Do they really want to come back to a team that won't have its starting QB until midseason or more? Just to endure another season where they're more likely to contend for the #1 overall pick than a playoff spot?

Also, no, reaching is very much a thing. Remember when we took Levi Brown over Adrian Peterson? That's all because we had a hole to fill that we didn't prepare for in Free Agency.

Football is only a part of their life and their life is tied to where they are right now. Friends, family (in Murphy's case) and all the other stuff that makes us comfortable and happy.

 

[Solar7]

Football is only a part of their life and their life is tied to where they are right now. Friends, family (in Murphy's case) and all the other stuff that makes us comfortable and happy.

Fair, but at 25/26 years old, it's a lot easier to up and move for a great job opportunity than it is when you're in your later 20s or early 30s and maybe have kids. (I'm not sure off the top of my head if either of them do.) And in Allen's case, he's an East Coast kid.

I'm not trying to be intentionally negative when it comes to these guys, FYI, I'm just not holding my breath. I'm much more willing to sign Allen if it has to be one or the other, though.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Kyler Murray will be 'stressed out, mentally' in Cardinals' plan to get him up to speed

The Arizona Cardinals have a plan to help get Kyler Murray up to speed with the new offense, but it will leave him 'getting stressed out, mentally'.

news.yahoo.com

 

[oaken1]

I don't love him, but if we're in the game of having options at Center if we want to look to the draft for a potential starter, what else do you do?

I doubt a guy like Kelce would come here on the cheap to be a stopgap. He's way too old for that.

there are 3 to 5 guys who should be capable rookie starters at center in this draft. That has to be what pick 34 is for.
Pugh?? I like the guy. But he tried to retire last year. Then got hurt. IMHO dudes heart is no longer in it, he has already decided he is done... the talk now is just because he realized he can sign with a team...strain a back muscle...and make a few more million while watching football from the sidelines. Give him a Cardinals watch, shake his hand, and draft his replacement.

 

[oaken1]

You glossed over my point later in that post where we gave up the highest completion percentage in the league, and the 8th highest yards against. That's not really good enough.


Cost, and that the guy can't stay on the field. He only played 9 games last season. I'm all for bringing him back at a reasonable price, but would rather find someone with a higher ceiling in a perfect world. Again, not insisting we have to go CB at the top of the 2nd, just very worried about seeing us reach for a C/G at the top of the 2nd because we have to fill a hole.

if we get Will Anderson,...our corners just got better.
you like looking at rankings, so go look at our pass rush...because it directly affects our coverage rates.
There are several IOL guys who are worthy of 34... if I had my druthers, I would grab Anderson,... then get a OC OG combo with picks 34 and 66...and that can be done without reaching...and getting 2 guys who can start day 1...if we get just a little lucky. but everyone else knows the top guys of IOL are strong too, so they may fall fast in round 2

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Kyler Murray will be 'stressed out, mentally' in Cardinals' plan to get him up to speed

The Arizona Cardinals have a plan to help get Kyler Murray up to speed with the new offense, but it will leave him 'getting stressed out, mentally'.

news.yahoo.com

Good read and I hope they keep the pressure on KM to learn

Sounds like they will giving him the tools to improve

It's all up to KM to put in the work

 

[PACardsFan]

if we get Will Anderson,...our corners just got better.
you like looking at rankings, so go look at our pass rush...because it directly affects our coverage rates.
There are several IOL guys who are worthy of 34... if I had my druthers, I would grab Anderson,... then get a OC OG combo with picks 34 and 66...and that can be done without reaching...and getting 2 guys who can start day 1...if we get just a little lucky. but everyone else knows the top guys of IOL are strong too, so they may fall fast in round 2

I’m beginning to think the Cardinals will definitely be trading out of 3. We’ll probably end up around where Carolina is. I see us stockpiling picks in the draft & gutting our current roster. I really see the Cardinals starting at ground zero & not caring either.

 

[bankybruce]

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[Solar7]

there are 3 to 5 guys who should be capable rookie starters at center in this draft. That has to be what pick 34 is for.
Pugh?? I like the guy. But he tried to retire last year. Then got hurt. IMHO dudes heart is no longer in it, he has already decided he is done... the talk now is just because he realized he can sign with a team...strain a back muscle...and make a few more million while watching football from the sidelines. Give him a Cardinals watch, shake his hand, and draft his replacement.

I'm just the kind of person who tries to think ahead and mitigate risk. Let's say we've got Michael Schmitz and Avila off the board by the time we get to our pick. Wypler's there, Tippman's interesting too. (I'm not an expert on C prospects, so give me a bit of a break here. I'm mostly naming names.)

But like, if Kelee Ringo or Joey Porter Jr. are there at the same time, that's a tough argument.

There's a lot of fluidity in the draft, so I reserve the right to disagree with my own take later on, haha.

A Carter/Anderson R1 and JMS R2 would be a great draft to me.

 

[oaken1]

I'm just the kind of person who tries to think ahead and mitigate risk. Let's say we've got Michael Schmitz and Avila off the board by the time we get to our pick. Wypler's there, Tippman's interesting too. (I'm not an expert on C prospects, so give me a bit of a break here. I'm mostly naming names.)

But like, if Kelee Ringo or Joey Porter Jr. are there at the same time, that's a tough argument.

There's a lot of fluidity in the draft, so I reserve the right to disagree with my own take later on, haha.

A Carter/Anderson R1 and JMS R2 would be a great draft to me.

I feel ya... But IMO we have ignored the trenches way too long,...and we have a QB who gets sketchy as hell when the front of the pocket starts moving back. we have to address that now, and in a fashion that makes it a non factor for the rest of kylers career.
Corners? The league has been starved for star calibre corners since the rules changes disallowed them to fully body check a wr at the line...as such, DC's have been designing and running defenses specifically designed to protect corners and make them less a factor... having guys like Ramsey...thats awesome,... but you rarely keep them, and you dont use them to their potential very often in modern defensive schemes.
a pass rusher is way more valuable.... they are less scheme dependent and have way more opportunities to help the team.

I really like steve avila,.. but I would pick JMS over him... JMS will be 24 when the season starts, he will hit his ceiling much sooner because he is more physically mature...and we need a guy to be fully capable really fast. But in the long run IMO Avila should be better... more versatile and a higher ceiling....would love to get both, lol.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Good read and I hope they keep the pressure on KM to learn

Sounds like they will giving him the tools to improve

It's all up to KM to put in the work

They're gonna either make him learn how to play conventional NFL football & how to read a defense or make him wanna quit lol.

 

[BritCard]

I'm just the kind of person who tries to think ahead and mitigate risk. Let's say we've got Michael Schmitz and Avila off the board by the time we get to our pick. Wypler's there, Tippman's interesting too. (I'm not an expert on C prospects, so give me a bit of a break here. I'm mostly naming names.)

But like, if Kelee Ringo or Joey Porter Jr. are there at the same time, that's a tough argument.

There's a lot of fluidity in the draft, so I reserve the right to disagree with my own take later on, haha.

A Carter/Anderson R1 and JMS R2 would be a great draft to me.

I think that we fix C in FA, or at least have a backup plan. You can't go into the draft needing a C.

Looking at the data it's very unusual for a Center drafted after round 2 to start as a rookie. The usual path for them is to get them playing time at Guard before replacing a vet C after a year or 2.

Of all the Centers drafted recently the only ones to start as a rookie were Linderbaum, Humphrey, Bradbury (but he sucked), Erik McCoy, Billy Price (he sucked), Mason Cole (he sucked) and Ryan Kelly.

That's 7 in the last 7 drafts that started as a rookie (the pattern continues if you go back further). 5 of them were 1st round picks. Humphrey is the only 2nd round pick (he was always a 1st rounder that draft was dumb) and I think Mason Cole (3rd round) should be disqualified because starting for that 2018 team shouldn't count.

There are no 1st round C's in this draft. I don't think there are any worth the 34th pick.

It would be silly for the Cards to rely on the draft for a starting C. Their best case scenario is that Hudson stays and we draft a C in the 3rd round to backup the interior for now.

I think Hudson might. It's odd that he hasn't retired yet. I don't think he liked the 95% shotgun scheme and he will be happier with the coaching change.

 

[Stout]

I think that we fix C in FA, or at least have a backup plan. You can't go into the draft needing a C.

Looking at the data it's very unusual for a Center drafted after round 2 to start as a rookie. The usual path for them is to get them playing time at Guard before replacing a vet C after a year or 2.

Of all the Centers drafted recently the only ones to start as a rookie were Linderbaum, Humphrey, Bradbury (but he sucked), Erik McCoy, Billy Price (he sucked), Mason Cole (he sucked) and Ryan Kelly.

That's 7 in the last 7 drafts that started as a rookie (the pattern continues if you go back further). 5 of them were 1st round picks. Humphrey is the only 2nd round pick (he was always a 1st rounder that draft was dumb) and I think Mason Cole (3rd round) should be disqualified because starting for that 2018 team shouldn't count.

There are no 1st round C's in this draft. I don't think there are any worth the 34th pick.

It would be silly for the Cards to rely on the draft for a starting C. Their best case scenario is that Hudson stays and we draft a C in the 3rd round to backup the interior for now.

I think Hudson might. It's odd that he hasn't retired yet. I don't think he liked the 95% shotgun scheme and he will be happier with the coaching change.

I was with you, or at least understanding your logic, all the way until this. You want to talk about a pathway to failure at starting C, well, this is it. Someone else made this comment about Pugh, and it really applies here too. If he realizes he can sign a contract, "strain his knee," and get another paycheck, he just might. Maybe he'll air mail the ball a few times before then, even. This dude has been mentally retired a while now and would not be a good keep.

 

[BritCard]

I was with you, or at least understanding your logic, all the way until this. You want to talk about a pathway to failure at starting C, well, this is it. Someone else made this comment about Pugh, and it really applies here too. If he realizes he can sign a contract, "strain his knee," and get another paycheck, he just might. Maybe he'll air mail the ball a few times before then, even. This dude has been mentally retired a while now and would not be a good keep.

It costs us nothing for him to stay. If him not being here saved us $5m on the cap I would agree with you, but him not being here saves us $1.4m if cut or retires before his March 21st roster bonus date.

For $1.4m I'd rather have him here. Even if it's only for half a season until a rookie can get up to speed.

If Hudson stays it will be because he doesn't want to go out on a crappy injury wrecked season.

The only cash due to Hudson this year is $3m. I don't see Hudson putting his body through the rigors of the offseason just to pick up a $3m check.

 

[Stout]

It costs us nothing for him to stay. If him not being here saved us $5m on the cap I would agree with you, but him not being here saves us $1.4m if cut or retires before his March 21st roster bonus date.

For $1.4m I'd rather have him here. Even if it's only for half a season until a rookie can get up to speed.

If Hudson stays it will be because he doesn't want to go out on a crappy injury wrecked season.

The only cash due to Hudson this year is $3m. I don't see Hudson putting his body through the rigors of the offseason just to pick up a $3m check.

...or because he wants an easy paycheck. Because what rigors? The offseason is a cakewalk with very little mandatory activity, and one calf strain in the opening days of training camp could land him on IR. I'm not saying he'd be that dastardly, necessarily, but he's got nothing left in the tank and being cheap doesn't make him good. No thank you.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I was with you, or at least understanding your logic, all the way until this. You want to talk about a pathway to failure at starting C, well, this is it. Someone else made this comment about Pugh, and it really applies here too. If he realizes he can sign a contract, "strain his knee," and get another paycheck, he just might. Maybe he'll air mail the ball a few times before then, even. This dude has been mentally retired a while now and would not be a good keep.

I don't think Hudson and Pugh have the same mindset at all. Hudson seemed to be looking for a reason to retire last off-season, but Pugh may have been content with retirement, but looking for a reason to come back. He was even trying out Center, to prolong his career. If I interpreted your comment wrong, my apologies.

 

[BritCard]

I don't think Hudson and Pugh have the same mindset at all. Hudson seemed to be looking for a reason to retire last off-season, but Pugh may have been content with retirement, but looking for a reason to come back. He was even trying out Center, to prolong his career. If I interpreted your comment wrong, my apologies.

Pugh said on Twitter last night that if they are looking for a LG they can give him a call