New Zealand Breakers at Suns, 10-3-18 (preseason)

[1Sun]

This repeated assertion is the most nonsensical argument I've seen made on this forum.

Also, the guards, while terrible, are BETTER than they were last year because Elfrid is gone.

Elfrid is 10 times the player that Harrison is.

 

[Phrazbit]

Bender needs to start doing the opposite of what he thinks he should do. If he feels like he should shoot, he needs to drive. When he wants to drive, he should shoot. Pull a George Costanza, Dragan!

lol, I love it.

Carolina Panthers coach Ron Rivera basically did that like 5 years ago. He was one of these old school coaches who played super conservative and finally some metrics guy got in his ear while Rivera was on a super hot seat and decided "what have I got to lose?"

 

[Mainstreet]

Igor gave Bender every opportunity to do something less than lose the game.

 

[Mainstreet]

Final:

Suns 91 - Breakers 86

 

[Phrazbit]

Elfrid is 10 times the player that Harrison is.

No he isn't. Elfrid was the worst player who saw the court for us last year. The team was a nightmare with him on the court... and much of that was before we were tanking and Booker was sat.

 

[Yuma]

Like Eddie said, this is a teachable moment for the Suns.

 

[1Sun]

No he isn't. Elfrid was the worst player who saw the court for us last year. The team was a nightmare with him on the court... and much of that was before we were tanking and Booker was sat.

In case you aren't noticing, this team is a nightmare now...

 

[Phrazbit]

Bender with a -12 in 9 minutes. Looking terrified everytime he got involved in a play. Probably win by 20 if Bender hadn't set foot on the court.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

In case you aren't noticing, this team is a nightmare now...

We are playing scrubs big minutes and we don't have Booker out there. Doesn't seem too complicated to me, when Booker is back and we tighten up the rotation and minute dispersion the team will look better.

 

[Yuma]

The team has new players, a new system, new coaches, etc. Tons of moving parts. It WILL look ugly right now.

 

[SirStefan32]

So, what's this Webster dude's contract situation?

 

[Phrazbit]

In case you aren't noticing, this team is a nightmare now...

We don't have our best player, basically any vet is hardly playing because it's the preseason and if Bender hadn't played we'd have probably won by 20.

Look, I'm not saying our point guards are good, they're not, they're awful. But your assertion is just... dumb. It's flat out dumb.

We went 9-11 with Isaiah Canaan and Booker together last year... with obviously worse players around them and IMO a much worse coaching staff.

 

[Hoop Head]

Harrison's defense is overrated, IMO. He may have held some players to so so games but Webster lit him up, and Okobo and Melton. Webster looked like the only PG in the game on both teams. I wouldn't mind giving him a look if he we had more non guaranteed PG's.Canaan losing his job because a NZ PG had his way against the other 3 Suns PG's wouldn't be right. One of them losing their job for him? I could live with that. Melton is a year or two away and Okobo is also, but Okobo might be able to contribute some as a SG sooner than Melton could as a PG.

The rest of the talent is there on the team. I think minus a PG we could be a playoff team. Not a good playoff team but a 6,7, or 8 seed that gets crushed by the Warriors or Rockets in the 1st round. It needs to be a good PG though. Beverly won't move the needle enough to matter. Winning 5 more games isn't enough to make that move. I'm less worried about our PG situation hurting Ayton than I was. Booker will see a lot of time there if Igor wants to play competitive basketball.

 

[Yuma]

So Friday Cannan is back. Hopefully we see how he plays and can end a bit of conjecture here.

 

[elindholm]

SUNS WIN!

 

[Chaplin]

In case you aren't noticing, this team is a nightmare now...

Yeah and there was a presidential alert today so you should really get to building that bomb shelter you’ve always wanted.

 

[Hoop Head]

No he isn't. Elfrid was the worst player who saw the court for us last year. The team was a nightmare with him on the court... and much of that was before we were tanking and Booker was sat.

I agree Elfrid sucked for part of last season but his first 10 games were good. He averaged something like 14, 8, and 5 boards on 44% shooting. Not great but better than any other PG last year. Something happened and after that first 10 games he fell apart, completely, and was awful. I don't remember the numbers but they were terrible. We had 2 versions of Payton last year, which isn't uncommon of some of our other youngsters. The one that finished the year was enough that it wasn't worth seeing if the first version might return. The worst PG's last year though, Mike James and Bledsoe were worse. Giving Igor more players that are either on or off wouldn't have been fair though. We had enough of them with Chriss, Len, Bender, and Payton. We got rid of almost all and all that we had options to as far as their contracts and he only has one Jeckyl & Hyde player now, which should make his job easier, definitely less stressful.

I would almost rather gamble that Payton could get his confidence back than the mess we have but Igor was an assistant for a year in Orlando and probably passed on Payton also so I don't blame the Suns for passing on him but he's a better PG than Okobo, Melton, and Harrison.

 

[1tinsoldier]

ayton and ariza very high shooting percentage (69, 64)
warren, 40%, the rest 36-25%
low assist numbers

obviously, without a true point and others assisting this team will have another bad year on offense

but with a healthy booker, ayton, and ariza i do have significantly higher expectations on offense
and with all the subtractions, i have higher expectations on defense as well

i expect Josh to continue to be a low percentage scorer this season. he needs to shoot less and find other ways to contribute

 

[Phrazbit]

I agree Elfrid sucked for part of last season but his first 10 games were good. He averaged something like 14, 8, and 5 boards on 44% shooting. Not great but better than any other PG last year. Something happened and after that first 10 games he fell apart, completely, and was awful. I don't remember the numbers but they were terrible. We had 2 versions of Payton last year, which isn't uncommon of some of our other youngsters. The one that finished the year was enough that it wasn't worth seeing if the first version might return. The worst PG's last year though, Mike James and Bledsoe were worse. Giving Igor more players that are either on or off wouldn't have been fair though. We had enough of them with Chriss, Len, Bender, and Payton. We got rid of almost all and all that we had options to as far as their contracts and he only has one Jeckyl & Hyde player now, which should make his job easier, definitely less stressful.

I would almost rather gamble that Payton could get his confidence back than the mess we have but Igor was an assistant for a year in Orlando and probably passed on Payton also so I don't blame the Suns for passing on him but he's a better PG than Okobo, Melton, and Harrison.

Elfrid's problems go beyond the stat sheet. Even in games where he put up decent numbers we'd go something like -20 with him on the court. He doesn't defend and there most be something truly strange about the way he runs an offense because, while he has some okay looking stats, everything the team does goes into the drink.

If you look at his on-court off-court stats it is mind blowing how detrimental he was. Offensively we get significantly worse across the board, our opponents numbers go wild. The shooting stats in particular are insane. We shot 2% worse with Elfrid in and our opponents shot 3 percent better with him on the court. We assisted on 2% less baskets, our foes assited on 4% more...

All told, over a typical 100 possessions we get smoked by 20 points with Elfrid on the court, it drops to 7 without him. Getting outscored by 7 is already a big margin, to nearly TRIPLE that is beyond belief. Even as putrid as Bender was, we only got 3 points worse with him in the game.

 

[BC867]

If the first two games of preseason are any indication, my projection of 21 wins might have been overly optimistic...

How can you have an indication without Devin Booker playing?

 

[JCSunsfan]

In all three of his blocks he also came out with the possession of the ball.

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[slinslin]

Josh Jackson cant have these high turnover nights

If he does coupled with his shooting he will still be one of the worst players in the league.

 

[sunsfan88]

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This really sums up Shaq's game tonight.

 

[JustWinBaby]

We don't have our best player, basically any vet is hardly playing because it's the preseason and if Bender hadn't played we'd have probably won by 20.

Look, I'm not saying our point guards are good, they're not, they're awful. But your assertion is just... dumb. It's flat out dumb.

We went 9-11 with Isaiah Canaan and Booker together last year... with obviously worse players around them and IMO a much worse coaching staff.

If healthy Canaan is by far our best choice at PG.

We don't have our best player, basically any vet is hardly playing because it's the preseason and if Bender hadn't played we'd have probably won by 20.

Look, I'm not saying our point guards are good, they're not, they're awful. But your assertion is just... dumb. It's flat out dumb.

We went 9-11 with Isaiah Canaan and Booker together last year... with obviously worse players around them and IMO a much worse coaching staff.

Canaan is the best PG on the current roster, if healthy, and it's not close.

Chriss had a nice 1st game for the Rockets. No threes and probably all dunks +20 for the night. He could be a very good fit for them as a small ball center when Capela sits. I have no idea why people were happy that we kept Bender over him. I expect Chriss is very happy to be in Houston where players understand how to pass the ball.

 

[sunsfan88]

Canaan shot 38% overall and 33% from 3 last season. I do not think he's the answer.