New Zealand Breakers at Suns, 10-3-18 (preseason)

[1Sun]

For what it's worth, Bickley and Marotta just echoed my points, concerns and sense of urgency to add a competent point guard as soon as possible.

 

[1Sun]

Yeah, that's crap. System is not magically going to work or not work because an average PG is there vs. a slightly bellow average PG. An average PG is not going to magically make JJ, Booker, Ayton, etc better, not is Isaiah Canaan going to make them worse. As for Bender and Chriss, THEY ruined themselves, not Beldoe, or Knight, or Canaan, or Oayton, ir anyone else.

But the difference is not average versus slightly below average. It's average versus barely G League level.

 

[SirStefan32]

Either way, system works or it doesn't work. Beverly over Canaan is not going to make any difference.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Either way, system works or it doesn't work. Beverly over Canaan is not going to make any difference.

I don’t agree with this. I’m not the sky is falling 1Sun, but there’s a distinct difference between skill levels with Beverly and Canaan. There’s a reason one has had larger contracts and been traded verses wandering around league. And both are coming back from big injuries only Beverly is already playing (clippers commentators were raving about his energy last night).

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t agree with this. I’m not the sky is falling 1Sun, but there’s a distinct difference between skill levels with Beverly and Canaan. There’s a reason one has had larger contracts and been traded verses wandering around league. And both are coming back from big injuries only Beverly is already playing (clippers commentators were raving about his energy last night).

Yeah, Beverley isn't going to solve all our PG problems but he's a clear upgrade to our foursome.

 

[Chaplin]

Yeah, Beverley isn't going to solve all our PG problems but he's a clear upgrade to our foursome.

Talentwise, absolutely. But he's not going to improve our ability to a) make the playoffs, or b) develop the youth movement. The only thing I think he'd be good for, though, is mentoring whatever PGs are left on the roster.

But he's playing for a contract to stick with the Clippers, so he might not even be available anymore.

 

[1Sun]

FYI, for anyone who is interested and is local, Bickley and Marotta are right now discussing last night's game and the Suns' point guard situation in greater depth...

 

[1Sun]

Summary of Bickley and Marotta's discussion:

Gushed over Ayton, and rightfully so. Only knock was that he didn't make his presence felt in the fourth quarter, or all that much in the second half. According to them, a lot of that was teammates not getting him the ball, and he ended up disappearing somewhat as a result.

Bender was bad on both sides of the ball and continues to get worse. Per Eddie Johnson, Bender's confidence is shot, and at this point Bender himself doesn't even think he belongs on the same court as NBA players. Contract option needs to be picked up by later in the month, but that notwithstanding they believe Kokoskov should just drop Bender from the rotation entirely and that he is a lost cause unless he suddenly shows something different out of nowhere. Theoretically, Bender should be able to play the 3, 4 and 5, but right now there is no spot on the roster for him.

They asked the following question: Is the poor point guard play due to a lack of basic abilities or due to the fact that the point guards on the roster are defensively minded and therefore less attentive to the offensive side of the ball? As part of the answer, they noted that there are clearly some deficiencies in basic skills, such as feeding Ayton in the post. They think Booker theoretically should be able to help the team overcome some of those deficiencies, but not necessarily enough to get the team where it needs to be. Accordingly to them, a lot will depend on whether and to what extent Kokoskov can adjust his system, which is a work in progress due to the lack of a point guard who is able to run his system as he is used to running it. There is some hope that Booker might be ready to play in the regular season opener, but the question remains as to how Kokoskov's offense will be adjusted and how Booker will be fit into it with no true lead time for Booker heading into the regular season.

Please don't shoot the messenger here. I'm just conveying their observations for those who weren't able to listen to them live.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Summary of Bickley and Marotta's discussion:

Gushed over Ayton, and rightfully so. Only knock was that he didn't make his presence felt in the fourth quarter, or all that much in the second half. According to them, a lot of that was teammates not getting him the ball, and he ended up disappearing somewhat as a result.

Bender was bad on both sides of the ball and continues to get worse. Per Eddie Johnson, Bender's confidence is shot, and at this point Bender himself doesn't even think he belongs on the same court as NBA players. Contract option needs to be picked up by later in the month, but that notwithstanding they believe Kokoskov should just drop Bender from the rotation entirely and that he is a lost cause unless he suddenly shows something different out of nowhere. Theoretically, Bender should be able to play the 3, 4 and 5, but right now there is no spot on the roster for him.

They asked the following question: Is the poor point guard play due to a lack of basic abilities or due to the fact that the point guards on the roster are defensively minded and therefore less attentive to the offensive side of the ball? As part of the answer, they noted that there are clearly some deficiencies in basic skills, such as feeding Ayton in the post. They think Booker theoretically should be able to help the team overcome some of those deficiencies, but not necessarily enough to get the team where it needs to be. Accordingly to them, a lot will depend on whether and to what extent Kokoskov can adjust his system, which is a work in progress due to the lack of a point guard who is able to run his system as he is used to running it. There is some hope that Booker might be ready to play in the regular season opener, but the question remains as to how Kokoskov's offense will be adjusted and how Booker will be fit into it with no true lead time for Booker heading into the regular season.

Please don't shoot the messenger here. I'm just conveying their observations for those who weren't able to listen to them live.

Thanks for the summary. I wouldn't take issue with anything here, we do have a problem. Booker might alleviate it somewhat but we'll likely still have a problem when he returns.

 

[Hoop Head]

A better PG might help our players put up better numbers but it won't help add to their talent. They can either play or they can't. Its not that complex. A better PG will help win a few more games but not enough to part with value to rent a stop gap.

I wouldn't be opposed to trying Bender at PG, as bad as that may sound. He was given play making duties last summer league with Ulis injured for that years games. If he works, that could give us a huge mismatch to exploit. If it doesn't, we're back where we are now. He does have decent court vision but his ball handling might not be good enough to bring the ball up every possession or when the game is close. When its close I suspect Booker will handle the ball the most often anyways. Give him a shot, maybe that will help make the decision if he's worth anything. Be a Diaw like big.

 

[BC867]

A better PG might help our players put up better numbers but it won't help add to their talent. They can either play or they can't. Its not that complex. A better PG will help win a few more games but not enough to part with value to rent a stop gap.

I wouldn't be opposed to trying Bender at PG, as bad as that may sound. He was given play making duties last summer league with Ulis injured for that years games. If he works, that could give us a huge mismatch to exploit. If it doesn't, we're back where we are now. He does have decent court vision but his ball handling might not be good enough to bring the ball up every possession or when the game is close. When its close I suspect Booker will handle the ball the most often anyways. Give him a shot, maybe that will help make the decision if he's worth anything. Be a Diaw like big.

And on defense? Keeping up with and neutralizing the opposition's Point Guard is half of the job. It doesn't show in individual stats.

And I still disagree that a talented, distributing Point Guard won't add to the talent of the rest of the team as they build chemistry with him, especially this young team.

And, I remain concerned that overworking Booker will lead to his history of too much time lost to injuries. Keeping him at Shooting Guard, with his passing skills, is the best hope for maximizing his skills and keeping him from missing time.

 

[Mainstreet]

An adequate point guard could do wonder for the Suns this season as I view it. They need a steadying hand. Inadequacies at the point guard position has a multiplier effect on the rest of the roster at every position. It's kind of like not having a solid quarterback in the NFL. It effects the whole team.

 

[95pro]

A better PG might help our players put up better numbers but it won't help add to their talent. They can either play or they can't. Its not that complex. A better PG will help win a few more games but not enough to part with value to rent a stop gap.

I wouldn't be opposed to trying Bender at PG, as bad as that may sound. He was given play making duties last summer league with Ulis injured for that years games. If he works, that could give us a huge mismatch to exploit. If it doesn't, we're back where we are now. He does have decent court vision but his ball handling might not be good enough to bring the ball up every possession or when the game is close. When its close I suspect Booker will handle the ball the most often anyways. Give him a shot, maybe that will help make the decision if he's worth anything. Be a Diaw like big.

We might as well try that with JJ first.

 

[BC867]

We might as well try that with JJ first.

Man, are we desperate!

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Suns want to keep Bender, he should be considered a project player. No more gifting him playing time.

 

[1Sun]

No more gifting him playing time.

At this point, that should be the mandate for each and every player on this roster.

 

[Proximo]

Did you guys miss when they briefly tried bender in summer league. It made the normal disaster that is Bender look very good.

He is a horrific ball handler.

I am in favor of sending him to the G league all season. If he can't improve there than it is just time to cut him.

 

[WildBB]

Anyone want to offer a contract to the Breakers guard, Webster?! Maybe we can assign them Bender for the year, in return.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Summary of Bickley and Marotta's discussion:

Gushed over Ayton, and rightfully so. Only knock was that he didn't make his presence felt in the fourth quarter, or all that much in the second half. According to them, a lot of that was teammates not getting him the ball, and he ended up disappearing somewhat as a result.

Bender was bad on both sides of the ball and continues to get worse. Per Eddie Johnson, Bender's confidence is shot, and at this point Bender himself doesn't even think he belongs on the same court as NBA players. Contract option needs to be picked up by later in the month, but that notwithstanding they believe Kokoskov should just drop Bender from the rotation entirely and that he is a lost cause unless he suddenly shows something different out of nowhere. Theoretically, Bender should be able to play the 3, 4 and 5, but right now there is no spot on the roster for him.

They asked the following question: Is the poor point guard play due to a lack of basic abilities or due to the fact that the point guards on the roster are defensively minded and therefore less attentive to the offensive side of the ball? As part of the answer, they noted that there are clearly some deficiencies in basic skills, such as feeding Ayton in the post. They think Booker theoretically should be able to help the team overcome some of those deficiencies, but not necessarily enough to get the team where it needs to be. Accordingly to them, a lot will depend on whether and to what extent Kokoskov can adjust his system, which is a work in progress due to the lack of a point guard who is able to run his system as he is used to running it. There is some hope that Booker might be ready to play in the regular season opener, but the question remains as to how Kokoskov's offense will be adjusted and how Booker will be fit into it with no true lead time for Booker heading into the regular season.

Please don't shoot the messenger here. I'm just conveying their observations for those who weren't able to listen to them live.

Nothing that surprises me there. Appreciate the summary.

 

[Yuma]

That's fine. I still stand by my original statement: Igor Kokoskov's system needs a decent facilitating point guard in order to work. Without one, it will inevitably fail.

It was noted that PG was not a position of strength in Utah, and Igor used this system to make Rubio actually look good. In fact the two guard was the big star. I wonder if we have a two guard to plug into this system?

 

[Yuma]

We are the first Kokoskov team to do so. (Not to mention that there has never been a decent team with point guards this bad.)

Not like the Bulls always had a great PG on their team during their dynasty.

 

[1Sun]

It was noted that PG was not a position of strength in Utah, and Igor used this system to make Rubio actually look good. In fact the two guard was the big star. I wonder if we have a two guard to plug into this system?

Rubio was always competent enough to make Kokoskov's system work. He is a ton better than any point guard we have on the roster. He has always been a good passer with good court vision and okay defense. His only weakness was his outside shot. Kokoskov could work with that, not with Shaq Harrison or the equivalent.

 

[Errntknght]

Even though I predicted that starting Harrison would diminish his defense, I'm stunned at the degree this has proven to be true and it's just taken 5 SL games and 2 preseason games. He did defend well in SL, at least during the games I was able watch - the first three. But the half a game I was able to watch in preseason he hasn't applied any ball pressure (Fox easily outplayed him when i watched) - and comments from others didn't suggest he did so in parts I didn't see. The only positive thing I picked up from the boxscores was that he got five blocks in two games - but that is not a great indication because he usually gets his blocks from behind when his man gets by him on the dribble - so he iis making up for a prior mistake.

The question becomes: is he already ruined? Hopefully not, but it's going to take getting pushed down in the PG rotation. Personally, I'd start someone else over him and even bench him to make the point that he must defend at his best if he wants to play. I rather doubt that Kokoskov willl take such drastic measures. He didn't get to observe how Bledsoe's D fell off once he was a starter.

It's hard to argue that Harrison should meekly accept a lesser role for the good of the team when he knows that starting PGs make 3 to 10 times as much money as backups. By a fluke he got his chance to show what he could do as a starter before he was ready for it - and he is blowing it. In his case I think his choices will come down to: play demon defense off the bench or go to an easier league.

Last year I remember him saying that defense was his calling card. He'd best remember that soon.

 

[1Sun]

Not like the Bulls always had a great PG on their team during their dynasty.

We already discussed this as well. At least Armstrong, Paxson, Kerr and Harper were competent, NBA caliber players.

 

[Yuma]

For what it's worth, Bickley and Marotta just echoed my points, concerns and sense of urgency to add a competent point guard as soon as possible.

Wow. I can't even count the number of times those two have been wrong on takes. Marotta is a chicken little on almost all Phoenix sports takes. It is entertaining because everything is the end of the world to him. I seriously wonder why he doesn't have an ulcer, LOL! I am just saying I would not use them to back up my takes. Every once in a while Gambo tells us some news we didn't know.