New Zealand Breakers at Suns, 10-3-18 (preseason)

[JustWinBaby]

Canaan shot 38% overall and 33% from 3 last season. I do not think he's the answer.

Maybe not, but he is the best choice of the 4 point guards McDonough has given Igor to choose from.

Why is he still our GM?

 

[Hoop Head]

Josh Jackson cant have these high turnover nights

If he does coupled with his shooting he will still be one of the worst players in the league.

He is far from one of the worst players in the league. Sure, cutting down his turnovers would be great but if you watched the game, it didn't appear he had as many as credited for and its clear he's not one of the worst players on the team, let alone the league. You really need to start watching games, its comments like these that show you only study boxscores and don't see how plays turn out. Especially when players get credited with a turnover even though they really shouldn't since they bumble a bad pass but actually fight for it a bit longer than most players and get credited with the possession rather than who threw the pass or if they throw a pass that someone else can't handle or doesn't try for. He plays too quick sometimes but he still manages to get involved in a ton of plays and makes good plays that don't show up in a box score.

 

[1Sun]

How can you have an indication without Devin Booker playing?

Because they look worse without Booker now than they did without Booker last year.

 

[Phrazbit]

Because they look worse without Booker now than they did without Booker last year.

No, they don't. If you think that is true then you were not paying attention.

On top of that, other vets are not playing either... because the preseason isn't about winning.

 

[Chaplin]

Because they look worse without Booker now than they did without Booker last year.

No they don’t. Geez.

 

[95pro]

Because they look worse without Booker now than they did without Booker last year.

its not even the same team, look at the roster turnover and coaching changes.

 

[AZCrazy]

How's Doncic doing so far?

 

[Hoop Head]

Because they look worse without Booker now than they did without Booker last year.

Congratulations for uniting this board in an opinion. Its not entirely united since you are part of the board and feel this way but I feel fairly certain everyone here disagrees with this take.

 

[1Sun]

That's fine. I still stand by my original statement: Igor Kokoskov's system needs a decent facilitating point guard in order to work. Without one, it will inevitably fail.

 

[Chaplin]

That's fine. I still stand by my original statement: Igor Kokoskov's system needs a decent facilitating point guard in order to work. Without one, it will inevitably fail.

You can't just pull this kind of opinion out of your behind and expect others to fall in line with it. You provide no supporting evidence that such an opinion is nothing more than the equivalent of, "Bacon tastes like cotton candy."

 

[1Sun]

You can't just pull this kind of opinion out of your behind and expect others to fall in line with it. You provide no supporting evidence that such an opinion is nothing more than the equivalent of, "Bacon tastes like cotton candy."

At this point, I will let the team's continued struggles illustrate that point until hopefully some more of you see what I see.

 

[Chaplin]

At this point, I will let the team's continued struggles illustrate that point until hopefully some more of you see what I see.

What team struggles? Oh, I get it, the struggles of a Summer League team and 2 preseason games, even without our #1 player.

 

[1Sun]

What team struggles? Oh, I get it, the struggles of a Summer League team and 2 preseason games, even without our #1 player.

I guess we'll just wait and see. In the meantime, I advise you to go back and observe Kokoskov's system in action with other teams. Precise and smart passing is at a premium.

 

[AzStevenCal]

At this point, I will let the team's continued struggles illustrate that point until hopefully some more of you see what I see.

I think we all see what you see, we just don't blow it out of proportion. If you simply said "these guards suck and it will cost us games", almost to a person we'd agree with you. But we aren't the first team to have horrible guards and there are a lot of workarounds (bandaids) for the problem.

 

[1Sun]

I think we all see what you see, we just don't blow it out of proportion. If you simply said "these guards suck and it will cost us games", almost to a person we'd agree with you. But we aren't the first team to have horrible guards and there are a lot of workarounds (bandaids) for the problem.

We are the first Kokoskov team to do so. (Not to mention that there has never been a decent team with point guards this bad.)

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

We are the first Kokoskov team to do so. (Not to mention that there has never been a decent team with point guards this bad.)

The PGs won't be handling the ball/ orchestrating the offense nearly as much when Booker returns. Also Canaan is an upgrade (especially offensively) to the PGs that have been playing in preseason thus far. It won't hurt us quite as bad as you are making it out to.

 

[Hoop Head]

We are the first Kokoskov team to do so. (Not to mention that there has never been a decent team with point guards this bad.)

Yes there has. I believe it was the 05-06 Lakers with Smush Parker as their starting PG and Jordan Farmar as his backup. It may have been 06-07, either way that team made the playoffs and took the Suns to 7 games in the first round. I think a playoff team, even an underdog, can be considered "decent". I've mentioned this before when countering these claims of yours. It didn't take long to find that example either since I recall the Suns playing them in the postseason and Smush Parker being talked about as a long run punchline used to mock Maker fans since they talked him up, briefly, until Kobe publicly bashed him. That's just from memory though and didn't take long to find. I'm sure someone who cares could look up a playoff team from virtually every season over the last 2 decades that had an equally bad PG rotation. I'm not sure the good it would do since you would claim whoever is presented is better than what we have. Everyone knows our PG situation sucks, no one denies that. You act like we've been blown out of every summer league and preseason game they have played in when that's not even close to true. In fact we haven't even seen the full PG rotation in a game yet. Not just because Booker has been injured but Melton played for Houston's summer league team, playing quite well as their PG, and Canaan not playing this preseason or summer league yet, plus Okobo being injured for some of our own Summer League. Its too early to call this rotation out like you have, and for the things you have, since they haven't even played a game together yet and they aren't getting blown out, as incomplete as they've been.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We are the first Kokoskov team to do so. (Not to mention that there has never been a decent team with point guards this bad.)

I don't know about that but where is it written we should be a decent team this season? For 3 seasons now we've averaged fewer than 23 wins per, you don't usually jump from those depths to "decent team" in one season. I expect us to win 30 some games, that's only decent in comparison to where we're coming from.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The PGs won't be handling the ball/ orchestrating the offense nearly as much when Booker returns. Also Canaan is an upgrade (especially offensively) to the PGs that have been playing in preseason thus far. It won't hurt us quite as bad as you are making it out to.

I sure hope so but I'm not fully convinced it will be significant enough to really matter. I liked Canaan from what I saw last season but it's not like our opponents ever really worried about us. We'll be better this year and, in part because of Ayton, we will be scouted more seriously. So I expect Canaan will see more defensive attention that he did last season. Hopefully he'll still be somewhat effective when that happens but I just don't know.

 

[SirStefan32]

I sure hope so but I'm not fully convinced it will be significant enough to really matter. I liked Canaan from what I saw last season but it's not like our opponents ever really worried about us. We'll be better this year and, in part because of Ayton, we will be scouted more seriously. So I expect Canaan will see more defensive attention that he did last season. Hopefully he'll still be somewhat effective when that happens but I just don't know.

You are right, but the Suns really only need limited stuff from him. Bring the ball up the court, hand it to Booker, run to the corner, knock down an open three, and don't be a liability on defense. now Canaan is not particularly good at anything, but he is competent at all these things. In my opinion, competent is all the Suns need from their PG. Now, don't get me wrong, I'd rather have an all-star PG, but Canaan is at least an actual NBA player.

 

[1Sun]

Yes there has. I believe it was the 05-06 Lakers with Smush Parker as their starting PG and Jordan Farmar as his backup. It may have been 06-07, either way that team made the playoffs and took the Suns to 7 games in the first round. I think a playoff team, even an underdog, can be considered "decent". I've mentioned this before when countering these claims of yours. It didn't take long to find that example either since I recall the Suns playing them in the postseason and Smush Parker being talked about as a long run punchline used to mock Maker fans since they talked him up, briefly, until Kobe publicly bashed him. That's just from memory though and didn't take long to find. I'm sure someone who cares could look up a playoff team from virtually every season over the last 2 decades that had an equally bad PG rotation. I'm not sure the good it would do since you would claim whoever is presented is better than what we have. Everyone knows our PG situation sucks, no one denies that. You act like we've been blown out of every summer league and preseason game they have played in when that's not even close to true. In fact we haven't even seen the full PG rotation in a game yet. Not just because Booker has been injured but Melton played for Houston's summer league team, playing quite well as their PG, and Canaan not playing this preseason or summer league yet, plus Okobo being injured for some of our own Summer League. Its too early to call this rotation out like you have, and for the things you have, since they haven't even played a game together yet and they aren't getting blown out, as incomplete as they've been.

As I mentioned before in response to your example, I believe Smush Parker is the current best case scenario for our point guards (though, again, I have hope that Okobo or Melton could eventually transcend that, but only if they are brought along slowly and not rushed into NBA action for which they are clearly not ready), while I believe Farmar was better than anyone else we have at the point in terms of current ability. Plus Devin Booker, for all of his promise, is no Kobe Bryant.

 

[1Sun]

You are right, but the Suns really only need limited stuff from him. Bring the ball up the court, hand it to Booker, run to the corner, knock down an open three, and don't be a liability on defense. now Canaan is not particularly good at anything, but he is competent at all these things. In my opinion, competent is all the Suns need from their PG. Now, don't get me wrong, I'd rather have an all-star PG, but Canaan is at least an actual NBA player.

Where we differ is in my belief that based on present ability, we don't even have competent. I am not necessarily looking for an all-star PG, and with this group we might be better off not having one, but we do need a steady veteran presence at the position that is a good passer and facilitator, can see the court well, can shoot well enough from outside to keep defenses honest, can avoid forcing things on offense that aren't there and can play at least average defense. From my perspective, as of right now, this roster doesn't have a point guard who can do one of those things, let alone all of them.

 

[Hoop Head]

Where we differ is in my belief that based on present ability, we don't even have competent. I am not necessarily looking for an all-star PG, and with this group we might be better off not having one, but we do need a steady veteran presence at the position that is a good passer and facilitator, can see the court well, can shoot well enough from outside to keep defenses honest, can avoid forcing things on offense that aren't there and can play at least average defense. From my perspective, as of right now, this roster doesn't have a point guard who can do one of those things, let alone all of them.

Why do we "need" a PG like you describe? How much of a difference will that really make? The Suns aren't a playoff team this year and that shouldn't be the goal. Steady improvement is what needs to be shown and something in the 30 win realm will do that, which this roster is capable of already. We tanked last year for a good portion, didn't have a Center like Ayton, and Booker missed 20+ games. Booker will have lots of help this year also and that alone should improve the team. Why do we need that PG you pine for so badly?

 

[1Sun]

Why do we "need" a PG like you describe? How much of a difference will that really make? The Suns aren't a playoff team this year and that shouldn't be the goal. Steady improvement is what needs to be shown and something in the 30 win realm will do that, which this roster is capable of already. We tanked last year for a good portion, didn't have a Center like Ayton, and Booker missed 20+ games. Booker will have lots of help this year also and that alone should improve the team. Why do we need that PG you pine for so badly?

In my opinion, we need it in order for Kokoskov's system to work, in order to not stunt the development of Booker, Ayton, Bridges and Jackson, and in order to not ruin Okobo and Melton by pushing them along too fast the way they did with Bender and Chriss.

 

[SirStefan32]

In my opinion, we need it in order for Kokoskov's system to work, in order to not stunt the development of Booker, Ayton, Bridges and Jackson, and in order to not ruin Okobo and Melton by pushing them along too fast the way they did with Bender and Chriss.

Yeah, that's crap. System is not magically going to work or not work because an average PG is there vs. a slightly bellow average PG. An average PG is not going to magically make JJ, Booker, Ayton, etc better, not is Isaiah Canaan going to make them worse. As for Bender and Chriss, THEY ruined themselves, not Beldoe, or Knight, or Canaan, or Oayton, ir anyone else.