Off Season Consideration

[SirStefan32]

This "He is not a point guard" crap is beyond ridiculous. Being taller than a traditional point guard is an advantage.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

A Big is a million times harder to replace than a Wing, especially to slow for PG and not atheletic enough at 3. This draft is touted as great because all of the available bigs and Doncic. I dont want to be the team that misses out on big for an over rates Euro Wing player. You guys always fall for the great white hype every year LOL. Probably wearing your Bender jersey as you type!

Again equating Bender to Doncic is absolutely ridiculous. Bender never did much of anything prior to the NBA. Doncic at 18 is already one of the best players in the Euroleague (a league that has much tougher competition than college).

 

[DevonCardsFan]

This "He is not a point guard" crap is beyond ridiculous. Being taller than a traditional point guard is an advantage.

You see him covering Westbrook, LOL with his knock being lack of speed and athleticism?or Curry, Just because you dribble the ball and can make passes doesnt make you an NBA 1, hes a point Forward

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Again equating Bender to Doncic is absolutely ridiculous. Bender never did much of anything prior to the NBA. Doncic at 18 is already one of the best players in the Euroleague (a league that has much tougher competition than college).

I am just saying you guys fall in love with the Euros every year!

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

You see him covering Westbrook, LOL with his knock being lack of speed and athleticism?or Curry, Just because you dribble the ball and can make passes doesnt make you an NBA 1, hes a point Forward

I can see Booker and Jackson guarding those guys (mainly Jackson, but Booker has shown a propensity to play some good D when he is engaged). Thus I can see a lineup with those 3 working quite well.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I am just saying you guys fall in love with the Euros every year!

I was never "enamored" with Bender prior to the draft (was all in on Ingram) and yet I am all in on Doncic. Believe it or not it is not because he is white or because he is European.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I was never "enamored" with Bender prior to the draft (was all in on Ingram) and yet I am all in on Doncic. Believe it or not it is not because he is white or because he is European.

You dont have any concerns with his:

A: Lack of Athleticism, Speed and Strength
B: Not having a true position? Too big at PG and not strong enough or athletic to be a Wing
C: His Knock of having a harder time against better defenders
D: The Suns already have guys at his position
E: The Suns are desperate for a bigman and this is there chance to grab one and they grab another wing?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

You dont have any concerns with his:

A: Lack of Athleticism, Speed and Strength
B: Not having a true position? Too big at PG and not strong enough or athletic to be a Wing
C: His Knock of having a harder time against better defenders
D: The Suns already have guys at his position
E: The Suns are desperate for a bigman and this is there chance to grab one and they grab another wing?

The only thing I agree with here is that he isn't an explosive athlete. He has plenty of strength for his age at 6'8' and 230lbs (at 18).

They grab the best player on the board. If that happens to be a big (Ayton being the only one that I personally think is worthy of being picked over Doncic) than okay, but they shouldn't reach for position.

The Suns are a really bad team and they need top tier talent in the worst way. That means you draft for best player available. The Suns also don't have a long term answer for their lead ball handler/facilitator role. Doncic would fill that hole very nicely while also being (unless Ayton is on the board) the best player available.

 

[SirStefan32]

You dont have any concerns with his:

A: Lack of Athleticism, Speed and Strength
B: Not having a true position? Too big at PG and not strong enough or athletic to be a Wing
C: His Knock of having a harder time against better defenders
D: The Suns already have guys at his position
E: The Suns are desperate for a bigman and this is there chance to grab one and they grab another wing?

E is valid, but A, B, C, and D are rubbish. He is plenty strong, and he is not Zach Randolph when it comes to athleticism. He lacks the explosiveness, but he doesn't look any less athletic, balanced, or quick as Booker. There is no "knock" on him for struggling against better defenders. There is no "Doncic stopper" out there. Naturally, everyone is going to have a harder time with a good defender guarding them, so that argument is nonsensical. They have players on every position. While I agree that I'd rather have a big man from this class, it's not like the Suns are loaded at PG. Versatility is important. Furthermore, what about the flip-side of mismatches? Who's gonna guard who if Doncic, Booker, and Jackson are on the floor together? Someone's gonna be getting posted up every time down the court.

It's fine to be higher on Ayton, Bagley, JJJ, Porter, etc. I would take Ayton if I had the first pick, and probably Bagley at 2, That's a valid opinion. making crap up about Doncic is not fine. It's rubbish.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

E is valid, but A, B, C, and D are rubbish. He is plenty strong, and he is not Zach Randolph when it comes to athleticism. He lacks the explosiveness, but he doesn't look any less athletic, balanced, or quick as Booker. There is no "knock" on him for struggling against better defenders. There is no "Doncic stopper" out there. Naturally, everyone is going to have a harder time with a good defender guarding them, so that argument is nonsensical. They have players on every position. While I agree that I'd rather have a big man from this class, it's not like the Suns are loaded at PG. Versatility is important. Furthermore, what about the flip-side of mismatches? Who's gonna guard who if Doncic, Booker, and Jackson are on the floor together? Someone's gonna be getting posted up every time down the court.

It's fine to be higher on Ayton, Bagley, JJJ, Porter, etc. I would take Ayton if I had the first pick, and probably Bagley at 2, That's a valid opinion. making crap up about Doncic is not fine. It's rubbish.

How is lacking strength speed and athleticism rubbish? If every scouting report list that as his #1 weakness?

You just say saying rubbish, doesnt exactly explain that away?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There wrong all the time, I wasn't in love with Fultz either, or Bender etc. I think people tend to romanticize Euro players. First off he is more polished, which means he is less raw and closer to his ceiling. I loved Dragic when they took him, he had a nasty streak as a Euro. Look at Darko Milicic in a stacked draft as well got over hyped and went 2. We have our own soft sensation in Bender. First off you cant make up for lack of Athletecism, Strength and speed in the NBA, it won't work. 2nd it really won't work as a Tweener, were does he fit on the Suns. He is a major liability at defense, Suns have Booker Warren and Jackson, I dont see how he fits in the Suns. Hes not going to run point. Suns need a 4/5 and a PG.

Jackson/ Bagley can be stretch 4s something the suns need

Ayton at one at a 5, I would even prefer Porter over Doncic.


Jackson needs to be the pick, he is exactly what the Suns need

Bagley is not a stretch.

JJJ is maybe the rawest least proven prospect at the top of the draft.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/6/16976438/jaren-jackson-jr-best-big-man-draft



JJJ game is easily transferable to the NBA, He can knock the 3 down as a stretch big, he can block shots and has solid D. Here is an article JJJ is the truth fits what the Suns need, has a skillset for for translating to the NBA. Is will be way more effective than weak as slow soft Doncic with no position

I believe you read but don’t watch. JJJ was a favorite of mine until I looked closer. Couldn’t grab big minutes. Disappeared down the stretch. He’s a total gamble.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

When does what a guy does as a 18 year old translate to his NBA potential. It's about ceiling and how they translate to the NBA, you will see a real gem after with me come draft time. While you guys are salivating for Doncic lol

So said people about chriss. You have to be careful not to salivate too much over just potential.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

How is lacking strength speed and athleticism rubbish? If every scouting report list that as his #1 weakness?

You just say saying rubbish, doesnt exactly explain that away?

Literally the first one I looked at

https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/luka-doncic-scouting-report

Pros:

Very good scorer off the dribble

Good shooter from all over the floor

Can post up smaller players

Excels at scoring on the move

Very good free throw shooter

Terrific playmaker that has great court vision

Moves well off the ball on offense

Good rebounder

Adequate defensive player

Good athlete

Smart player that has great intangibles

Plays in some of the toughest professional leagues

Cons:

Can struggle to score in traffic

Can be streaky with his jump shot

Can be too passive on offense

May struggle to guard quicker players

May not be overly explosive


He is a good athelete. He is strong, can jump, has great body control. He doesn't have an explosive first step

 

[elindholm]

Can be streaky with his jump shot

And here is a great example of why not to trust "experts." "Can be streaky" means absolutely nothing. Everyone will miss a handful of shots in a row from time to time. If you wanted to establish a player as "streaky," you'd have to do a careful analysis of whether he's more likely to follow makes with makes, or misses with misses, on similar-to-identical shots, at a higher rate than his peers. I guarantee that whoever wrote that throw-away piece of "analysis" did not do that.

I'd put more faith in experts if they didn't continually demonstrate that they don't know what they're doing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You see him covering Westbrook, LOL with his knock being lack of speed and athleticism?or Curry, Just because you dribble the ball and can make passes doesnt make you an NBA 1, hes a point Forward

That you slin?

Magic Johnson

And tell me who DOES shut down the dominant PGs?

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Literally the first one I looked at

https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/luka-doncic-scouting-report

Pros:

Very good scorer off the dribble

Good shooter from all over the floor

Can post up smaller players

Excels at scoring on the move

Very good free throw shooter

Terrific playmaker that has great court vision

Moves well off the ball on offense

Good rebounder

Adequate defensive player

Good athlete

Smart player that has great intangibles

Plays in some of the toughest professional leagues

Cons:

Can struggle to score in traffic

Can be streaky with his jump shot

Can be too passive on offense

May struggle to guard quicker players

May not be overly explosive


He is a good athelete. He is strong, can jump, has great body control. He doesn't have an explosive first step

That you slin?

Magic Johnson

And tell me who DOES shut down the dominant PGs?

Hahahahahaha literally every one I click besides that one says he lacks strength and speed and athleticism.

Even your link:

Cons cant guard quicker players and you want him to guard.


HERES NEXT LINK I CLICKED

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2016/12/luka-doncic.html?m=1


Weaknesses
Doncic has below average athleticism and will have a big adjustment to make playing against NBA size and speed. There are a lot of questions about who he'll guard at the next level. He projects as an average defender at best, and possibly a liability on D.

Doncic doesn't have great foot speed and could struggle to get to the rim against NBA defenders, and his lack of jumping ability will make it hard to score in traffic. He's got a solid frame but one that is compact, heavy and lacks length.

Can be a little bit sloppy with the ball and needs to tighten up his handles and make better decisions with the ball to avoid careless turnovers.

Can be a streaky shooter, especially from downtown.





How can you guys be so in love with a guy, with major athletic issues and instead of answering, you cherry pick a scouting report and just use denial, when I bring up his biggest knock. Literally everything I watch or read states above. Even your own link says he lacks foot speed, this will be a major factor come NBA time and things become much tougher!

 

[DevonCardsFan]

That you slin?

Magic Johnson

And tell me who DOES shut down the dominant PGs?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Hahahahaja Doncic isn't even comparable to Magic hashanah This is just crazy talk now. Hes a version of Walt Williams, but William's could defend and was more athletic and could match up on the floor on D. Crazy talk

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

That commentator, good grief. It's like watching a bad sitcom with an exaggerated laugh track.

Sounds exactly like the Jazz color and play by play guys. And the guys on the radio may be even worse. It is nauseating. It is like they ramped it up to eleven, but now that the Jazz are good and can generate their own excitement, they forgot to turn it back down to reasonable.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hahahahahaha literally every one I click besides that one says he lacks strength and speed and athleticism.

Even your link:

Cons cant guard quicker players and you want him to guard.


HERES NEXT LINK I CLICKED

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2016/12/luka-doncic.html?m=1


Weaknesses
Doncic has below average athleticism and will have a big adjustment to make playing against NBA size and speed. There are a lot of questions about who he'll guard at the next level. He projects as an average defender at best, and possibly a liability on D.

Doncic doesn't have great foot speed and could struggle to get to the rim against NBA defenders, and his lack of jumping ability will make it hard to score in traffic. He's got a solid frame but one that is compact, heavy and lacks length.

Can be a little bit sloppy with the ball and needs to tighten up his handles and make better decisions with the ball to avoid careless turnovers.

Can be a streaky shooter, especially from downtown.





How can you guys be so in love with a guy, with major athletic issues and instead of answering, you cherry pick a scouting report and just use denial, when I bring up his biggest knock. Literally everything I watch or read states above. Even your own link says he lacks foot speed, this will be a major factor come NBA time and things become much tougher!

I don’t love doncic. I’m on record as saying 1. Ayton 2. Bagley and then unsure. But so many of the experts, who have purportedly actually seen him play, seem to be convinced that he’ll be a star. I say you ignore them at your at your own peril. I am working off the assumption that you’ve probably watched as little of him as I have and are largely basing your opinion on what you’ve read and the fact that he’s white ans euro.

What I don’t get is your infatuation with the argument that he can’t be a pg bc he’s tall. Do you think Young has a snowballs prayer in hell stopping a Westbrook? He’ll get trucked. Doncic might not have the foot speed to stay in front of Westbrook but at least he’s got some strength to limit his physicality some. You’re conveniently ignoring the size advantage he has.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Hahahahaja Doncic isn't even comparable to Magic hashanah This is just crazy talk now. Hes a version of Walt Williams, but William's could defend and was more athletic and could match up on the floor on D. Crazy talk

I’m not saying he’s magic I’m just debunking your argument that a tall guy can’t be a pg. by the way, Magic was toasted by quick pg’s in defense too. Didn’t mean he wasn’t a pg.

 

[Praxis]

Alexey Shved is leading the EuroLeague in scoring. The talent/level of competition is incomparable to the NBA. Doncic might not be a bust but people pointing to his stat line need to realize Europe is where careers go to die.

 

[Raindog]

Another problem with these Euro "unicorns" (Euro-corns?) like Darko, Rubio, and now Doncic, is that much of the hype comes from self-appointed "draft experts"... bloggers, really... watching edited YouTube footage of these guys playing against other players of dubious athletic prowess in the various Euro tourneys and leagues. Until the draft camps and pro days roll around, there is very little in person NBA scouting done on these guys, and almost no evaluation of them playing against potential NBA level athletes. It's really not too far from watching YouTube videos of junior high kids at summer hoops camps and deciding "hey this 12 year old is the next Lebron" just because he's schooling some other less skilled 12 year old.

That used to be good enough if you wanted to take a second round flyer on some of these guys as stash picks for a few years... low risk, maybe some reward. But as lotto picks, there really is much more of an element of risk. Again, not saying Doncic can't turn out to be a competent player in the NBA. But edited European League highlights aren't convincing me that he is the unquestionable next big thing. If you watch more extended warts-and-all game footage of him, his can't miss status starts to look a little more dubious.

 

[SirStefan32]

Alexey Shved is leading the EuroLeague in scoring. The talent/level of competition is incomparable to the NBA. Doncic might not be a bust but people pointing to his stat line need to realize Europe is where careers go to die.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Of course Euro League is not the NBA. For the purposes of the draft, it should be compared to the college basketball.

 

[Errntknght]

Obviously this not a good full game to judge Doncic on. He was tentative and on one drive Udoh took the ball away from him. Blocked on his other drive. Threw up 2 or 3 three pointers that missed. Made 2 good passes on fast breaks, ordinary passes but the right ones. He was more active in the hectic finish but I still don't think he scored. Basically, nothing to make you imagine he could play in the NBA anytime soon - from a year ago, I guess.