Off-season now over- happy with the moves?

[George O'Brien]

We will probably have to agree to disagree. On the strength issue, my observation that Hunter was routinely pushed too close to the basket, which is why rebounds would go over his head. As for the Duncan matchup, Duncan is not really a "power" player as much as a great finese player. He doesn't try to get physical very often.

In any case, if Grant is even close to healthy, I'd take him over Hunter in a heartbeat.

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm not overly happy with the events of summer. The Suns clearly did not read the situation with JJ well - I think the seeds of his discontent were sown last summer and there's probably nothing they could have done about it but it would have helped if they'd just been on top of it from the beginning - knowing he was going to bolt. In the end they got Atlanta to blink and came away with a reasonable S&T - its just that the timing is bad as the goodies are futures and the Suns window of opportunity is now. The timing was also bad in that the whole thing took so long that the summer signings were pretty much finished.

For the most part I agree with this. I mean we don't know exactly what JJ told the Phoenix Suns at the end of the season. He really might have given them every indication that his top choice was to re-sign with Phoenix. It just seems like someone should have made sure that he wanted to stay.

Had they known that JJ wanted to go somewhere else they might have been able to work a better sign and trade with Cleveland. I mean he is a much, much better fit with the LeBron James than Larry Hughes. I think Hughes will get slightly less per season, but you could rationalize the difference simply because Johnson will play 15-20% more games during the regular season. Of course it's possible that JJ wouldn't even want to go to Cleveland because he wouldn't beat the man there either.

Anyhow, that's all speculation. I think the team would be better this season with JJ, but I was a whole lot less than enthusiastic about the size of his contract. I also can live with what the Phoenix Suns got in return in the sign and trade deal.

It appears they frittered away the #21 draft pick by not handling the Q-KT trade right - they went public with it before settling the issue of Q's lack of insurance.

This isn't right. I was as absent as anyone about the way the Isaiah Thomas seemingly worked over Bryan Colangelo in that deal. This just isn't the way it happened though.

First of all it was New York's camp who leaked information of the trade. Secondly, the deal always included phoenix sending a first-round draft pick to New York. At first the deal was reported incorrectly, and there was some question for awhile about which way the draft pick was headed. It was always going from Phoenix to New York.

The Phoenix Suns could have kept this year's first-round draft pick and taken someone like Francisco Garcia or Robinson. That was their option. Supposedly there were at least two players they were hoping would slip down to #21, but once they were taken the Suns decided to give New York the draft pick this year.

Why would they give up a first-round draft pick in an extremely deep draft? The answer is simple. They did it for flexibility. If they owed New York a future first-round draft pick you would limit what they could do with their own draft picks and possible future trades.

It figured to be a deep draft and it seems to have been at this point but there seemed to be no effort on the part of the Suns to pick up ground in the second round. What irritated me the most that they still could have chosen a highly regarded defender in Eddie Basden with any of their picks - even the one they sold. It would have been a gamble but, at least, if it paid off he might help immediately. But no, the Suns went with an offensive oriented player as always, who's some years away at best.

I'm actually more upset by this than the fact that they traded the #21 this year. I rationalized the Thompson pick at the time based on what I was reading and hearing about him. However there are players on the Phoenix Suns summer league team I would have preferred them drafting and signing instead of Thompson. I would rather have Stephen Graham and even Katelynas not to mention a guy like Basden. That said, when the games actually count I doubt any of these guys will really do much for any team. We'll see.

I wanted the team to keep Hunter but I doubt if D'Antoni would play him as long as he has an alternative because he clearly disliked him. I was somewhat surprised that Hunter was willing to return.

I wanted to keep Hunter as well, but there's no way I would have given him the deal he got from Philadelphia. Like you, I wanted to see more Hunter earlier in the season. As the season wound down and into the playoffs I could see why coach Mike would get so frustrated. I still think he was too quick to yank him though.

Look, if I had to choose who I would rather have on the court alongside Amare Stoudemire I would take Kurt Thomas over Hunter almost every time. Thomas might not be a shot blocker, but he is a better defender than Hunter. He is also a significant upgrade on the boards.

Offense away there's no comparison. Kurt Thomas is a huge upgrade here.

With Thomas in the fold there would only be about 10 minutes per game left for Hunter. For those 10 minutes I would rather have Brian Grant for the LLE.

I still like Steven Hunter. I thought he defended Kevin Garnett in particular very well. People keep pointing out his defensive mistakes as the reasons for him frequently getting pulled so quickly last season. I think it had more to do with him consistently being out of position on the offensive end of the floor. I would have been happy if Phoenix could have found a way to keep Hunter, but I can definitely live without him.

Joe

 

[Dr. Dumas]

Several posters made that kind of general complaint about Hunter - looking lost, slow learner, failing to rotate etc. but one thing no one did was point out actual instances of his defensive failings. I did it a few times when he was summarily yanked right afterward - mainly to point out that it wasn't that big of a deal. Heck there were games when Amare's D was incredibly bad and I don't recall anyone but Joe Mama and I ever commenting on it. With no one presenting real evidence of Hunter's defensive failings I'm inclined to think that people just repeated what others said and it became accepted as 'common knowledge'.

The difference is that Amare is not one dimensional like Hunter. Hunter was brought in soley for his defensive/blocking presence(because that's all he could do).

If Hunter was not playing up to par on the defensive end, then why would you leave him in?

 

[Treesquid PhD]

The difference is that Amare is not one dimensional like Hunter. Hunter was brought in soley for his defensive/blocking presence(because that's all he could do).

If Hunter was not playing up to par on the defensive end, then why would you leave him in?

Exactly, I mean it's kind of hard to bag on a guy who rolls in 26 a game and is pretty much the only reason we Suns fans can absorb the losses we have this season without freaking out.

Hunter was what he was an below average offensive bench player who could only block shots. His defense was nothing spectacular, and I think shot blocking especially the way most of Hunter's blocks came (weakside help) are overatted.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

"shot blocking especially the way most of Hunter's blocks came (weakside help) are overatted."

while its nice to have a face up guy who blocks shots, a block is a block bud. Keeping the ball away from the hoop is a good thing no matter how it happens.....

 

[Chaplin]

"shot blocking especially the way most of Hunter's blocks came (weakside help) are overatted."

while its nice to have a face up guy who blocks shots, a block is a block bud. Keeping the ball away from the hoop is a good thing no matter how it happens.....

2 blocks a game and that's it is NOT going to help us win ball games.

 

[Neo]

2 blocks a game and that's it is NOT going to help us win ball games.

Still, I'd "take 2 blocks a game and that's it" over "ran (barely) up and down the court many times and that's it." The latter more accurately describes most of the centers we have had.

Phoenix has been known as a doughnut team (no center) for a long time. In the long list of crappy centers, Hunter is nowhere near the worst.

Remember Llamas, Santiago, Kleine, or Longley? I want to throw my shoe through my TV screen and scream "Learn to play basketball, you moron!!!" just thinking about those wastes of human flesh.

 

[coloradosun]

The trading of the 21st pick this summer does not bother me since we got two 1st rounders back from Atlanta.

The other thing to remember is that we will have Jim Jackson for an entire season, the trade to get him last year looks like even a better move now that Joe Johnson got his wish to play for the Squawks.

 

[Chaplin]

Still, I'd "take 2 blocks a game and that's it" over "ran (barely) up and down the court many times and that's it." The latter more accurately describes most of the centers we have had.

Phoenix has been known as a doughnut team (no center) for a long time. In the long list of crappy centers, Hunter is nowhere near the worst.

Remember Llamas, Santiago, Kleine, or Longley? I want to throw my shoe through my TV screen and scream "Learn to play basketball, you moron!!!" just thinking about those wastes of human flesh.

Ok, I agree with you, but that's not the issue, is it? The issue is whether we are better now than we were 3 months ago--or at least, happy with the moves we've made over the past 3 months...

 

[George O'Brien]

"shot blocking especially the way most of Hunter's blocks came (weakside help) are overatted."

while its nice to have a face up guy who blocks shots, a block is a block bud. Keeping the ball away from the hoop is a good thing no matter how it happens.....

Sort of... Too often Blocks are like steals in that they often are a result of gambling. If it works it's great, if not then the other team gets an easy score.

The straight up versus weak side shot blocking is a big deal. Weak side blockers are typically athletic types who can go after the ball while going past the opposing player.

Straight up shot blockers are between the offensive player and the basket. Generally they can't jump because if they do, the offensive player simply runs into him and gets an easy foul. This means the player has to be able to block the ball flat footed, which generally requires being very tall and very long.

In theory Hunter should have been a able to be a straight up shot blocker, but that wasn't how he got most of his blocks. Usually, they came from leaving his own man independent of whether he should.

Like everyone else, I'd love to get a mobile straight up shot blocker with some offensive skills. Unfortunately, it takes tanking the season right before one of these comes out like the Spurs do to get one.

 

[Errntknght]

Joe, "This isn't right. I was as absent as anyone about the way the Isaiah Thomas seemingly worked over Bryan Colangelo in that deal. This just isn't the way it happened though."

I never read a definitive account of the trade by an independent source and I certainly didn't fabricate the tale that the NY threatened to back out when they belatedly learned about the insurance problem with Q. Of course, I don't know that the version I wrote is right, which is why I started by saying, "It appears... " We did hear from Phoenix sources that Q lacked some typical form of insurance, which gives some credence to that version. If you read an account of the trade that was free of Phoenix "spin" then I will have to concede the point.

"Why would they give up a first-round draft pick in an extremely deep draft? The answer is simple. They did it for flexibility. If they owed New York a future first-round draft pick you would limit what they could do with their own draft picks and possible future trades."

I didn't hear that Phoenix had a choice of when to give up the pick. If giving NY their own pick in 2006, which figures to be a very shallow draft, was one of the options I'd have to say they bobbled it a second time.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

IIRC the suns had the option of giving up the 2005 draft pick or a future pick with reverse restrictions.

In other words it was 22-30 protected in 2006, (made up the numbers).

The idea being that NY would get a decent pick out of it. It also would have been unlikely that they would have conveyed it in 2006.

 

[George O'Brien]

If the Suns really loved someone at 21, they'd have pushed back harder. As much as the Suns wanted KT, it was clear Isaah needed to move him. The Knicks want to start Sweeney and and couldn't play at the same time as KT.

The upside is that the Suns have their future picks to be used in trade. If they need to make a deal using their TE, that could prove very useful.

 

[Errntknght]

George, "On the strength issue, my observation that Hunter was routinely pushed too close to the basket, which is why rebounds would go over his head. "

If you'd said it was a rebounding issue I wouldn't have disagreed so strongly with you - your first post made it sound like they just waltzed to the hoop and brushed Steven aside.

"In any case, if Grant is even close to healthy, I'd take him over Hunter in a heartbeat."

Playing the 'what if' game, if Hunter's dislocated finger kept him from developing a better low post shot, I'd take him in a heartbeat over Grant.

I can easily imagine scenarios both ways where I'd rather have the one over the other. Overall, I'd rather have Hunter because he runs the floor, blocks shots, has some low post offense and possibilities for improving it. I don't see Grant bringing much that KT doesn't - and if Burke proves useful, his game is closer to Grants than it is to Hunters.


Dr. Dumas, "The difference is that Amare is not one dimensional like Hunter."

I wasn't remotely comparing the two players - in fact my comment was about now little posters notice on the defensive end.