Ok Kolb bashers

[AzStevenCal]

lmao. So you're saying he wasn't born with it?

Aah, you beat me to it.

Steve

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Look, the INT (well, all of them) was stupid. Real stupid. But he pulled a Favre and got us back in and got us the win. That's more than we ever thought we would see from him when John went down. I am perfectly happy keeping him in as the start (and I am an unabashed Skelton believer) until he stops making the big plays to correct errors and IF becomes a headcase again.

Agreed.

But, I don't think this is a case of "when". Kolb has the ability to learn, he showed that with his improved pocket presence.

His accuracy issues are fundemental, and his decision making is HOPEFULLY experience wise.

We will see. As Whiz says it is a good problem to have.....more than one QB that can win a game for you that is.

 

[52brandon]

Aah, you beat me to it.

Steve

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I don't even think there's any crow eating to be done here. It's not like you're saying he can't be the guy.

Steve

I would be lying if I didn't say I would be SHOCKED to see Kolb blow up a team for 330 and 3 TD's and win a game 35-28 when the defense is having an off day. He is not a QB that can carry a team yet.

We will see. I'd be happy to be wrong.

Edit: And no, yesterday the defense did not have a "off day" they were HUGE in crunch time, and made plays all over the field.

 

[Mulli]

I would be lying if I didn't say I would be SHOCKED to see Kolb blow up a team for 330 and 3 TD's and win a game 35-28 when the defense is having an off day. He is not a QB that can carry a team yet.

We will see. I'd be happy to be wrong.

Edit: And no, yesterday the defense did not have a "off day" they were HUGE in crunch time, and made plays all over the field.

Rookie QB lights you up for 400 yards is a bad day.

 

[English on tour]

Well he was my pick to start... What do I win?

Really though, he has made some daft plays and some great ones. I think he has played with a lot of heart and no little talent. Keep it up fella.

He will have a shocker somewhere along the line. Let's not hang him when he does though eh chaps.

 

[Totally_Red]

I would be lying if I didn't say I would be SHOCKED to see Kolb blow up a team for 330 and 3 TD's and win a game 35-28 when the defense is having an off day. He is not a QB that can carry a team yet.

We will see. I'd be happy to be wrong.

Edit: And no, yesterday the defense did not have a "off day" they were HUGE in crunch time, and made plays all over the field.

Have it your way! The Miami offense and their rookie quarterback had a fantastic day despite the awesome Cardinal defense.

Scott Bordow of the Arizona Republic says the Cardinals' defensive players knew they got away with a ragged performance.

“This game here we didn’t play our best. We know that,” safety Kerry Rhodes said.

All around the Cardinals locker room, Rhodes’ teammates were nodding in agreement. This wasn’t the same defense that held New England to 18 points and tormented Michael Vick. Miami had 480 total yards and averaged 6.5 yards per play. Tannehill did a dead-on impersonation of Dan Marino against a blitzing defense that had even Tom Brady thinking twice.

What happened, as Campbell might say?

For one thing, Arizona didn’t play with the same fanatical fervor it did the first three weeks. Part of that was due to the absence of defensive end Darnell Dockett (hamstring), who often sets the tone with his play up front. It’s clear, too, that the Cardinals weren’t as amped up to play Miami as they had been Seattle, New England and Philadelphia.
It was a trap game, and the defense nearly got caught.

“It was not up to our standards. We want to be a lot better than that,” Lenon said.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/car...ls-defense-not-up-to-standards.html#protected

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Bob Kemp of AM 1060 "Criticism of Kolb after yesterday's game is just more stupidity from the Cardinals fan base"

Wow...

He loves taking his shots at Cards fans.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Also from Kemp "The Cardinals ability to overcome being down to 2 healthy TEs, 2 healthy RBs including one who was on the practice squad a week ago, plus down Dockett speaks volumes for their long term success"

Let's just say Kemp is never exactly on the Cardinals bandwagon

Or Kolb's...

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I personally thought he played a B- game so I don't think that criticism is "stupidity"

Certainly warranted in some instances.

 

[kerouac9]

Also from Kemp "The Cardinals ability to overcome being down to 2 healthy TEs, 2 healthy RBs including one who was on the practice squad a week ago, plus down Dockett speaks volumes for their long term success"

Let's just say Kemp is never exactly on the Cardinals bandwagon

Or Kolb's...

Yup. I'm not going to bury Kolb, for the reasons that Kemp notes here. Reagan Mau'ia is a complete liability that I wouldn't be surprised to see off the roster Friday morning, and not having access to Heap or Dray was a REAL challenge (if Dray can practice Tuesday or Wednesday, Mau'ia maybe couldn't pack his bags for St. Louis). William Powell is not an NFL-quality football player, and Ryan Williams might not be more than an average NFL back.

I thought that the coaching staff showed REAL stones on that final drive keeping William Powell out there to force overtime. I thought Williams might have been injured.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Kolb is just starting to get into the range of games started to where you can get a true evaluation of him. I forget if it was Bill Polian or Gil Brandt that I heard on the radio saying that it's a waste of time to evaluate a QB until he has 32 starts under his belt.

I don't know if Kolb will be the long term guy or not but I didn't write him based on last year and I'm not going to "crown his ass" because of his good stretch this year.

As for the money issue, that will work itself out. If he plays well they'll pick up his option. I don't worry about as much about the money because if the Cards can pay Stewart Bradley ANYTHING, much less 5 years 30 mill, to waste a roster spot then they can absorb a Kolb option.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Yup. I'm not going to bury Kolb, for the reasons that Kemp notes here. Reagan Mau'ia is a complete liability that I wouldn't be surprised to see off the roster Friday morning, and not having access to Heap or Dray was a REAL challenge (if Dray can practice Tuesday or Wednesday, Mau'ia maybe couldn't pack his bags for St. Louis). William Powell is not an NFL-quality football player, and Ryan Williams might not be more than an average NFL back.

I thought that the coaching staff showed REAL stones on that final drive keeping William Powell out there to force overtime. I thought Williams might have been injured.

I enjoy listening to Kemp because he doesn't mince words, even if it pisses me off from time to time.

Plus I hate Gambo "The wold stawts and ends in New Yowk"

and Jim "pause between every word" Rome

 

[kerouac9]

Kolb is just starting to get into the range of games started to where you can get a true evaluation of him. I forget if it was Bill Polian or Gil Brandt that I heard on the radio saying that it's a waste of time to evaluate a QB until he has 32 starts under his belt.

I don't know if Kolb will be the long term guy or not but I didn't write him based on last year and I'm not going to "crown his ass" because of his good stretch this year.

As for the money issue, that will work itself out. If he plays well they'll pick up his option. I don't worry about as much about the money because if the Cards can pay Stewart Bradley ANYTHING, much less 5 years 30 mill, to waste a roster spot then they can absorb a Kolb option.

I saw Stewart Bradley run on the field when Paris Lenon got shaken up and I was like, "Whoa, Stew Brad getting some defensive PT!" Then he ran off the field because Miami wasn't going to punt.

I just worry that we already spent money on D-Wash in the expectation that Kolb would be gone and we'd be spending less at the QB position in 2013. There aren't a lot of people left to take money out of.

The best case scenario is that Kolb takes a 50% salary reduction but stays on the roster for a cap charge of some $9 million, and we draft a real devlopmental QB in the late first or 2nd round. IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I saw Stewart Bradley run on the field when Paris Lenon got shaken up and I was like, "Whoa, Stew Brad getting some defensive PT!" Then he ran off the field because Miami wasn't going to punt.

I just worry that we already spent money on D-Wash in the expectation that Kolb would be gone and we'd be spending less at the QB position in 2013. There aren't a lot of people left to take money out of.

The best case scenario is that Kolb takes a 50% salary reduction but stays on the roster for a cap charge of some $9 million, and we draft a real devlopmental QB in the late first or 2nd round. IMO.

i can definitely see them doing it in the 2nd, but not the first. if this team makes the playoffs, Whiz is going to want to have his cake and eat it too, which means he'll want his first rounder to be able to make an impact immediately, while at the same time building for the future, IMO.

 

[kerouac9]

i can definitely see them doing it in the 2nd, but not the first. if this team makes the playoffs, Whiz is going to want to have his cake and eat it too, which means he'll want his first rounder to be able to make an impact immediately, while at the same time building for the future, IMO.

Eh. Maybe. Certainly quarterbacks draft 18-28 overall don't have a stellar record.

As I said earlier in this thread, if the Cards make the playoffs the Cards are going to pick up the entirety of Kolb's $9 million "option" (it's not a real option, except in the sense that every year of an NFL player's contract is an option). If you were Kolb's agent and Graves called you up in February following a second-round playoff exit and asked to take a salary reduction, are you going to say yes?

 

[TJ]

I personally thought he played a B- game so I don't think that criticism is "stupidity"

Certainly warranted in some instances.

Criticism is fine, considering his mishaps.

Perseverating over and augmenting his transgressions to make it look like he has zero concept of the position is unwarranted, IMO.

Just glad he had a game where he had to step up when the defense wasn't playing to its potential, even if he caused some of the problems.

 

[football karma]

The best case scenario is that Kolb takes a 50% salary reduction but stays on the roster for a cap charge of some $9 million, and we draft a real devlopmental QB in the late first or 2nd round. IMO.

while QB rating isnt everything

after 3.25 games, Kolb has a 97.6 passer rating with 7 tds to 2 ints

if he finishes the season with that rating and a td / int ratio of 3.5 to 1 --

i dont think the contract is touched and no way does the team take a qb round 1 or 2.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm only assuming that you're just talking about the Dallas game. If that's the case, he was terrible in the Dallas game. I know that you walk away from that thinking "Wow. 4-yard wheel route to LSH for a TD! Kolb's the guy we thought he was!" Recency bias. Kolb was Blaine Gabbert bad even in that game, until one play in overtime.

The good news is that he hasn't regressed from that spot, but Kolb just didn't look good to me yesterday. Throwing flat-footed. Losing the strike zone for a quarter at a time.

Again Dallas 16-25 247 1 TD, no picks a Passer rating of 109 and change. Yeah it was a catch and run and Kolb had to move in the pocket and pump fake the guy covering LSH to get him open for that play. 80 yard bomb no but Kolb made a play there by buying time and moving the defender with a fake. He should get some credit.

He missed some throws yesterday for sure, like I said the one Floyd dropped was underthrown, I started a thread about the bad screen pass. Couple of others he missed but he was 29-48 so it wasn't like he was wildly inaccurate, especially given how often he got hit.

He's not a great QB all I'm saying is he's not the same guy that we saw at this point last season, he's MUCH better.

Is it good enough for the longer term, no idea. But I for one didn't expect him to do this. The way he looked in the preseason I thought he was too far gone, I am impressed with his ability to fix some things. And that gives me some hope he can fix even more things.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yup. I'm not going to bury Kolb, for the reasons that Kemp notes here. Reagan Mau'ia is a complete liability that I wouldn't be surprised to see off the roster Friday morning, and not having access to Heap or Dray was a REAL challenge (if Dray can practice Tuesday or Wednesday, Mau'ia maybe couldn't pack his bags for St. Louis). William Powell is not an NFL-quality football player, and Ryan Williams might not be more than an average NFL back.

I thought that the coaching staff showed REAL stones on that final drive keeping William Powell out there to force overtime. I thought Williams might have been injured.

Powell played 2 drives in a row entirely. On the game thread I asked if Williams was hurt. he came in later though. The only thing I could think is maybe Powell is a better blitz pickup guy than Williams?

 

[Russ Smith]

Eh. Maybe. Certainly quarterbacks draft 18-28 overall don't have a stellar record.

As I said earlier in this thread, if the Cards make the playoffs the Cards are going to pick up the entirety of Kolb's $9 million "option" (it's not a real option, except in the sense that every year of an NFL player's contract is an option). If you were Kolb's agent and Graves called you up in February following a second-round playoff exit and asked to take a salary reduction, are you going to say yes?

Can't we do the same thing with Bradley though or his contract less cap friendly?

Seems pretty unlikely he's back next year he's not Lenon's backup Walker is.

Not as much as Kolb but certainly one option to free up some money.

 

[crisper57]

So if Kolb keeps a good thing going, he'll be here next year as the starter. So the real question is:

What can we get for Skelton?

 

[kerouac9]

Powell played 2 drives in a row entirely. On the game thread I asked if Williams was hurt. he came in later though. The only thing I could think is maybe Powell is a better blitz pickup guy than Williams?

I thought Williams was hurt, too. As Whis would say, I'm guessing that it was just WiPo's "turn to work."

Can't we do the same thing with Bradley though or his contract less cap friendly?

Seems pretty unlikely he's back next year he's not Lenon's backup Walker is.

Not as much as Kolb but certainly one option to free up some money.

We did the same thing with Bradley this season. I think we reduced his base salary from $5 million to $1 million. Maybe he accepts that pay cut again next offseason, maybe he decides that he wants a "make-good" chance with the Giants or something and takes off. I can't hammer on Bradley (or Heap for the same reason) as much these days because he took a massive pay cut and is merely overpaid instead of obscenely overpaid.

 

[kerouac9]

Again Dallas 16-25 247 1 TD, no picks a Passer rating of 109 and change. Yeah it was a catch and run and Kolb had to move in the pocket and pump fake the guy covering LSH to get him open for that play. 80 yard bomb no but Kolb made a play there by buying time and moving the defender with a fake. He should get some credit.

He missed some throws yesterday for sure, like I said the one Floyd dropped was underthrown, I started a thread about the bad screen pass. Couple of others he missed but he was 29-48 so it wasn't like he was wildly inaccurate, especially given how often he got hit.

He's not a great QB all I'm saying is he's not the same guy that we saw at this point last season, he's MUCH better.

Is it good enough for the longer term, no idea. But I for one didn't expect him to do this. The way he looked in the preseason I thought he was too far gone, I am impressed with his ability to fix some things. And that gives me some hope he can fix even more things.

You have to look beyond the stat sheet for that game and actually read through the play-by-play. Just whole quarters of three-and-outs, being completely non-productive except for one play. He didn't look like a legitimate NFL quarterback.

I think this time last year we were either getting pasted by the Vikings or losing to Washington close. I don't remember which. He looked like the guy in Washington last week, IMO.

 

[PJ1]

You have to look beyond the stat sheet for that game and actually read through the play-by-play. Just whole quarters of three-and-outs, being completely non-productive except for one play. He didn't look like a legitimate NFL quarterback.

I think this time last year we were either getting pasted by the Vikings or losing to Washington close. I don't remember which. He looked like the guy in Washington last week, IMO.

Kolb was horrible in the first half of the Dallas game. I rewatched this game as I remembered it as one of his best. Wasn't that good at all.