Ok Kolb bashers

Chopper0080

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Yamon. I think the Az QB job takes quite a minute to get used to. I don't know how much better Kolb will get, be if he improves and our line improves, we headed in the right direction. Grimm gotta go.

You know, I like what Grimm has done with Lyle Sendlein, D'Anthony Batiste and especially Bobbie Massie. It makes me re-evaluate my opinion of him, because IMO, Massie is the most athletic lineman he has been given to develop. There is only so much you can do with players like daryn Colledge, Lyle Sendlein, and Adam Snyder, and Sendlein was undrafted.

Maybe our poor line play is more due to a lack of talent than we previously thought?
 

AzStevenCal

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Am I the only person on this thread that does not think EITHER Kolb or Skelton are the long term answer at QB? Am I the only one that saw Kevin Kolb get outplayed by Ryan Tannahill yesterday?

All I have seen from both QBs is inconsistent play, stupid mistakes, and the ability to make the most of the opportunties provided by the defense. Unlike most good teams in the NFL, the Cardinals are winning as a team rather than soley due to their QB.

No, you're definitely not the only one. Also, if you widen that to "am I the only person that is not convinced that either Kolb or Skelton are the long term answer?", you'll be joined by most of us. There are a handful of Kolb supporters and one or two true Skelton fans but I think most of us remain skeptical. I like our QB situation far more than I did last year (or the year before) but it's still an area of concern.

Steve
 

D-Dogg

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You got to admit part of our success in the past 12 games has been partly luck. We won 4 overtime games last year and then one Sunday. NFL record. How long can you continue to do that? i hope for 12 more games but the odds cannot continue to go like this forever. How many times did Seattle get a shot at the end zone from inside the 5 yard line which could have won the game? Six or more? I cannot recall but how often does an NFL team fail to score inside the 5 and have 6 or more plays to do it? Philly last night sure did not look like the Philly we played.

It's not luck. Happens too many times to be luck.

Players make plays.
 

RugbyMuffin

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hmmmm you are severely skewing things to try and fit YOUR BOY!

Kolbs completion % is 62.6% Skelton 50% this year and 54.9% during his streak last year. Yea thats close to being the same! Lipstick or not! Oh and in no way shape or form in any NFL circle is a 63.6% completion rate considered as inaccurate!

TD to INT ratio for Kolb is slightly better than is 3-1 one for Kolb.. Im not a math Whiz but 11 TD to 14 INTs is nowhere close to to a 3 to 1 ratio??

Quarterback rating of 97.1 for Kolb to Skeltons 68.9 during his streak. Well thats a 30 point difference and clearly speaks for itself!

But you go on thinking they are exactly the same although you have nothing to base it off of. At least nothing accurate like picking out 3 or 4 bad throws a game. Yet with those throws still clearly is outplaying Skelton during his streak.


Edit: What am I skewing ? I fully admit Skelton is my guy! :D But, what did I skew ? Kolb throwing bad INT's making bad decisions, and getting bailed out by the defense ?

Thats the point. I am not trying to skew things for Double Deuce. I have been very realistic about Skelton and what he brings to the table.

But, I am accusing you and some posters here of doing what so many could not admit when Skelton was making the plays to win games.

Those stats you post are 100% right, and 100% accurate. And mean as much as they did a month ago when this was hashed out for the millionth time.

If you honestly think Kolb is playing that much better, and doing that much more than fine. Believe it. Throw all the numbers out there and then some.

If people are saying Kolb is carrying this team, then I don't know what to say. He is carrying the team no more or less then Skelton did in my opinion.

You want me to see it another way ? Fine. Don't throw an INT in the endzone, don't hold onto the ball for an eternity and give up HUGE losses on sacks, don't throw the ball behind players, don't throw the ball too low, don't throw the ball too high, don't make dumb decisions, stop trying to force the ball in dumb places.

THEN I will admit Kolb is the superstar described in this thread. You wanna re-hash the old debate (not really Shane that would be ridiculous for either of us) but go back and see all the bashing on Skelton. All the same crapola was said about Skelton when he was winning games. Skelton didn't dink and dunk like Kolb, he was all or nothing, and won just the same.

Why ?

Cause Kolb and Skelton play on a great team, with a great defense, that bails their butts out when they screw up. And if you don't believe that, then Kolb and Skelton are both a lot better than we give them credit for.

I am not bashing Kolb. Not by a long shot, the guy is winning and that is all that matters.

But, I am certainly not going to let people who found every single small, insignificant reason to bash one QB, not to keep that same eye of criticism on Kolb. Fair is fair is all I am asking for.

When it comes down to it. Any of us would have to be mad in the head if you didn't think Kolb doesn't deserve to start, even with a healthy John Skelton in the fold.

But, if Kolb were to go down, I would be very dissappointed if people thought the season would be over. <---- I guess that is the point after all this.

And yes, he is MY BOY! So, I am going to be defensive, but at least I am trying, IMHO to be defensive in a realistic way.

And yes, Shane I have the most important thing to base this off of, they both win.
 
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RugbyMuffin

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No, you're definitely not the only one. Also, if you widen that to "am I the only person that is not convinced that either Kolb or Skelton are the long term answer?", you'll be joined by most of us. There are a handful of Kolb supporters and one or two true Skelton fans but I think most of us remain skeptical. I like our QB situation far more than I did last year (or the year before) but it's still an area of concern.

Steve

To be honest, after Kolb has learned to step up in the pocket and not run around like a chicken with his head cut, I have some faith he might learn to keep his feet in a better position to throw the ball (accuracy), and he might learn to make better decisions.

When it comes to Kolb it is accuracy, and decision making. His pocket presence is much improved, but for him to be THE MAN. He has to make better decisions. The two picks to Fitz were horrific, and he had a few more than were INT's if not for our WR's.

All four horrible throws ? Bad decisions. At one point Kolb threw into triple coverage with a WIDE open Larry Fitzgerald over the top.

Decisions, and accuracy. Kolb could be the guy.

Skelton? Jeez....... How about we just talk about one guy ? I have thrown out the reasons why I think Skelton could be the guy as well.

If the Cardinals don't think Kolb is the answer then they will have to get rid of him at some point.
 

Russ Smith

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I think at least 3 sacks were on Kolb completely. He held onto the ball WAY too long.

Also, for all the Bobby Massie bashing, the Atlanta Falcons had the SAME EXACT PROBLEMS (5 sacks by Charles Johnson) as the Cardinals did. Both won.

Hard to say watching on tv but I think the idea that because a QB double clutches he's locked on to one guy or he's holding the ball too long is a bad assumption. It might mean just as he was going to pull the trigger he saw a defender that was in a bad spot and pulled the ball back.

I'd have to watch the whole game again, which I have no plan to do, to really see how many sacks were on Kolb. Watching it live my perception was in the first half the pressure was coming from Massie's side on virtually every pass play. I don't recall hearing a single comment from the tv guys that Kolb was holding the ball too long and it certainly didn't seem like it to me.

I will admit I kept yelling let it go, but not because he was holding it so long but because you could see Wake beating Massie again and with Skelton inactive I really didn't want to see Kolb get hurt and us have to use Lindley.

I'm not saying Massie is terrible it was his first bad game. I'm just saying my perception is the reason we changed formations and schemes in the 2nd half was to help Massie so that Kolb had time to throw, not because Kolb was doing something wrong.

He's not a great QB I readily admit that but I thought he held up well yesterday.
 

AzStevenCal

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To be honest, after Kolb has learned to step up in the pocket and not run around like a chicken with his head cut, I have some faith he might learn to keep his feet in a better position to throw the ball (accuracy), and he might learn to make better decisions.

When it comes to Kolb it is accuracy, and decision making. His pocket presence is much improved, but for him to be THE MAN. He has to make better decisions. The two picks to Fitz were horrific, and he had a few more than were INT's if not for our WR's.

All four horrible throws ? Bad decisions. At one point Kolb threw into triple coverage with a WIDE open Larry Fitzgerald over the top.

Decisions.

Yeah, as I said, I feel a lot better about our QB situation than I did a year ago. IMO, we have 2 QB's that have both shown flashes of being solid and perhaps even better but neither one has arrived IMO. I love the way Kolb led us on that final drive but he still leaves a lot of plays on the field in addition to some horrific decisions.

Steve
 

Russ Smith

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No, you're definitely not the only one. Also, if you widen that to "am I the only person that is not convinced that either Kolb or Skelton are the long term answer?", you'll be joined by most of us. There are a handful of Kolb supporters and one or two true Skelton fans but I think most of us remain skeptical. I like our QB situation far more than I did last year (or the year before) but it's still an area of concern.

Steve

Exxactly Kevin hadn't thrown for 200 yards until yesterday so no way I'm saying he's the QBOF yet. For me I'm just saying it really looks like he's not the Kolb of the past, he finished up last year fairly well and despite preseason, he's picked up where he left off.

I'm quite surprised, i was openly saying start Skelton, Kolb can't hold up he'll get hurt. I'm amazed at how well he's played given how much he struggled in the preseason.
 

splitsecond

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Look, the INT (well, all of them) was stupid. Real stupid. But he pulled a Favre and got us back in and got us the win. That's more than we ever thought we would see from him when John went down. I am perfectly happy keeping him in as the start (and I am an unabashed Skelton believer) until he stops making the big plays to correct errors and becomes a headcase again.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Umm you are the one that came in here bringing up Skelton not me. You were the one bringing his name up and calling him an equal. Nowhere in here did I trash skelton till you came in her claiming they are = on the field. Which clearly is false.


Then why are you trying to say I want to skew things to prop up Skelton ?

Thus my confusion.

Skelton is what he is. Kolb is what he is.

Neither is going to carry this team, but both, stats be damned, do enough to win games.

That is all that matters.

Hmm..... maybe if I put it this way.

I don't give a DAMN that Kolb threw two INT's yesterday, because he won.

I don't give a DAMN that Double Deuce can't hit the side of a barn for 3 quarters cause he won.

BOTH do just enough to win.

And yes, that means Kolb. Yeah, GREAT stats, still needed the help of the defense and to make a clutch throw in the end to win the game. So while his stats are "so much better" he is still winning tight games by slim margins, so much like Double Deuce the year before.

Right now ? Kolb is the starter, no doubt.

Has ANYTHING either of these guys have shown us since they started playing here convince us that either of them is "the guy". That Kolb being the starter now, means he will be able to keep this up ?

I don't, and that goes for either of them.

Let Kolb have a few 35-14 games where he is not having tipped balls fall in the hands of Michael Floyd, or the defense is not getting the ball back for him (just like John Skelton was the beneficiary of last year) and get back to me. I will be sure to have my crow plate, fork ,and knife happily ready.

Just keep in mind I am nitpicking about the nitpicking. I would love for Kolb to be the guy. I like whomever wins football games.
 

AzStevenCal

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Then why are you trying to say I want to skew things to prop up Skelton ?

Thus my confusion.

Skelton is what he is. Kolb is what he is.

Neither is going to carry this team, but both, stats be damned, do enough to win games.

That is all that matters.

Hmm..... maybe if I put it this way.

I don't give a DAMN that Kolb threw two INT's yesterday, because he won.

I don't give a DAMN that Double Deuce can't hit the side of a barn for 3 quarters cause he won.

BOTH do just enough to win.

And yes, that means Kolb. Yeah, GREAT stats, still needed the help of the defense and to make a clutch throw in the end to win the game. So while his stats are "so much better" he is still winning tight games by slim margins, so much like Double Deuce the year before.

Right now ? Kolb is the starter, no doubt.

Has ANYTHING either of these guys have shown us since they started playing here convince us that either of them is "the guy". That Kolb being the starter now, means he will be able to keep this up ?

I don't, and that goes for either of them.

Let Kolb have a few 35-14 games where he is not having tipped balls fall in the hands of Michael Floyd, or the defense is not getting the ball back for him (just like John Skelton was the beneficiary of last year) and get back to me. I will be sure to have my crow plate, fork ,and knife happily ready.

Just keep in mind I am nitpicking about the nitpicking. I would love for Kolb to be the guy. I like whomever wins football games.

I don't even think there's any crow eating to be done here. It's not like you're saying he can't be the guy.

Steve
 

Cheesebeef

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No, you're definitely not the only one. Also, if you widen that to "am I the only person that is not convinced that either Kolb or Skelton are the long term answer?", you'll be joined by most of us. There are a handful of Kolb supporters and one or two true Skelton fans but I think most of us remain skeptical. I like our QB situation far more than I did last year (or the year before) but it's still an area of concern.

Steve

agreed.
 

kerouac9

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Exxactly Kevin hadn't thrown for 200 yards until yesterday so no way I'm saying he's the QBOF yet. For me I'm just saying it really looks like he's not the Kolb of the past, he finished up last year fairly well and despite preseason, he's picked up where he left off.

I'm quite surprised, i was openly saying start Skelton, Kolb can't hold up he'll get hurt. I'm amazed at how well he's played given how much he struggled in the preseason.

I'm only assuming that you're just talking about the Dallas game. If that's the case, he was terrible in the Dallas game. I know that you walk away from that thinking "Wow. 4-yard wheel route to LSH for a TD! Kolb's the guy we thought he was!" Recency bias. Kolb was Blaine Gabbert bad even in that game, until one play in overtime.

The good news is that he hasn't regressed from that spot, but Kolb just didn't look good to me yesterday. Throwing flat-footed. Losing the strike zone for a quarter at a time.
 

52brandon

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I would love for Kolb to be the guy. I like whomever wins football games.
lol, damn near word for word what I said about Skelton going into week one. It seems this team can win with either. Fairly regularly now. Hell of a problem to have :D
 

52brandon

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...Kolb just didn't look good to me yesterday. Throwing flat-footed. Losing the strike zone for a quarter at a time.
no. He didn't look good yesterday. But he put his big boy pants on and dug out a W. THAT is what I liked about his performance yesterday. And it was the ONLY thing I liked about it. He got his ass handed to him. His "pocket" was smaller than the pockets on my jeans. We never got a running game going. He never hung his head, never gave up, ground it out 'til the very end and came away with a W
 

AzStevenCal

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no. He didn't look good yesterday. But he put his big boy pants on and dug out a W. THAT is what I liked about his performance yesterday. And it was the ONLY thing I liked about it. He got his ass handed to him. His "pocket" was smaller than the pockets on my jeans. We never got a running game going. He never hung his head, never gave up, ground it out 'til the very end and came away with a W

Agreed. He showed us more about his makeup than his physical skills.

Steve
 
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