Ok Kolb bashers

[TJ]

I can tell you when Kolb is double clutching in the pocket as we saw yesterday, he is locking onto one target and waitinf for the person to get open.

As far as protection, yes it limit his ability to do certain things, but "Franchise" QBs overcome their teams limitations. They make screen passes to slow the rush, they get through their progressions, and they adjust their protection to get the best out of their protection matchups. I loved how Kolb made the most of the opportunities the defense gave him yesterday, but he missed on many of these things.

Again, I'm not saying we can't win with Kolb because we are 4-0 with him this year. What I am saying is he struggles with some elementary things which I wonder if he can ever develop. The pick in the end zone was huge to me. It is a basic roll out, one read and then throw it away. They had the lead and needed to protect the ball, and Kolb screwed up royally. As much as people were bashing Ryan Williams for fumbling in New England, they should be as upset with Kolb yesterday on that play.

If he's "locking," it's a designed pitch and catch. Simply because of the protection. I beg to differ on the overcoming the line. When you're dealing with one substandard left tackle and a rookie right tackle, it makes it tough to overcome. The pocket is collapsing so fast, receivers don't have time to get separation. He's basically trying to throw passes in a crowded phone booth

Kolb more than made up for his mistake. That's why we're not as upset. Good quarterbacks do that. Quite frankly, I'm glad Kolb had this game. It demonstrated that he is capable of overcoming major adversity, even if it's self-manifested, and not needing to rely just on the defense.

I think you're amplifying things a bit too much and reading a 2011 scouting report. Kolb has made strides in almost every facet of his game. You can call his mistakes "elementary," but his numbers demonstrate he's becoming more than a game manager.

 

[Chopper0080]

Recency bias much? It's hilarious to me that you're trying to assert authority after admitting that your analysis of the Arizona QB position cannot be trusted.

Let's let Kevin Kolb put a full game together before we start crowning him a Franchise quarterback, huh? I for one am still pretty unconfident when we're forced to go spread offense, shotgun formation for full series.

First HALF, Kolb was 10 of 14 for 71 yards and an INT. 5.07 YPA. And a killer and unnecessary INT where he was watching Fitz the entire way and the D just followed his eyes.

Franchise QB? Mmm... if you're going to say that this is the best that he's going to be able to offer--that this is the production that we're going to see at his top form, then I'm going to say "no."

This performance was a lot like the Washington performance that we saw last year, only the luck was on our side instead of the opposition's at the end of the game.

If this is Kolb's "Good" game, then he's Matt Cassell-level. Not a "Franchise" quarterback.

Yeah, I don't see it either. As I have said in other threads, if anything, this game showed me that he isn't one. Honestly, our "franchise QB" was outplayed by a rookie in Ryan Tannahill on Sunday.

 

[crisper57]

Mr. Concussion Kolb got sacked 8 times in one game and he was still standing at the end. I never questioned his toughness, just his durability. After yesterday, I don't think I can even question that.

 

[52brandon]

Mr. Concussion Kolb got sacked 8 times in one game and he was still standing at the end. I never questioned his toughness, just his durability. After yesterday, I don't think I can even question that.

maybe all the $$$ put into the development of the new style helmet he wears paid off

 

[desertdawg]

4-0 and folks still bitch about the pricetag, unbelievable!!!

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah, I don't see it either. As I have said in other threads, if anything, this game showed me that he isn't one. Honestly, our "franchise QB" was outplayed by a rookie in Ryan Tannahill on Sunday.

Meh. I don't know about all that. I don't think it's a binary decision between "Worse than Ryan Tannehill" and "Franchise Quarterback." I think that Kevin Kolb illustrated that he can be a competent starting quarterback in the NFL, but that he's probably not a top-caliber quarterback. He's probably in the bottom of the second tier of starters in the NFL.

Now, that is a huge step up from where he was at the end of last season and this preseason. But I don't think that Kolb's apologists should be taking their sharpies out of their socks quite yet, either. Congratulations, Kolb's probably not being mentioned in the same breath as Blaine Gabbert anymore.

 

[desertdawg]

Meh. I don't know about all that. I don't think it's a binary decision between "Worse than Ryan Tannehill" and "Franchise Quarterback." I think that Kevin Kolb illustrated that he can be a competent starting quarterback in the NFL, but that he's probably not a top-caliber quarterback. He's probably in the bottom of the second tier of starters in the NFL.

Now, that is a huge step up from where he was at the end of last season and this preseason. But I don't think that Kolb's apologists should be taking their sharpies out of their socks quite yet, either. Congratulations, Kolb's probably not being mentioned in the same breath as Blaine Gabbert anymore.

Well like the Jeffersons he is movin on up. Had a rough 8 sack game yesterday that I think will boost this club. I don't see the Lambs bringing it like that so hopefully Kev-bo can have a good game this week...stat wise.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Recency bias much? It's hilarious to me that you're trying to assert authority after admitting that your analysis of the Arizona QB position cannot be trusted.

Let's let Kevin Kolb put a full game together before we start crowning him a Franchise quarterback, huh? I for one am still pretty unconfident when we're forced to go spread offense, shotgun formation for full series.

First HALF, Kolb was 10 of 14 for 71 yards and an INT. 5.07 YPA. And a killer and unnecessary INT where he was watching Fitz the entire way and the D just followed his eyes.

Franchise QB? Mmm... if you're going to say that this is the best that he's going to be able to offer--that this is the production that we're going to see at his top form, then I'm going to say "no."

This performance was a lot like the Washington performance that we saw last year, only the luck was on our side instead of the opposition's at the end of the game.

If this is Kolb's "Good" game, then he's Matt Cassell-level. Not a "Franchise" quarterback.

Exactly. Am I happy that we're 4-0 and Kolb hasn't screwed it up? Hell yeah, happier than a pig in you know what. That being said, I'm certainly not going to come on here and talk about how he's a pro bowler and a franchise qb.

He's a long way from proving any of that. (Anxiously awaiting apoplectic responses from the kool aid crew, where nothing is ever wrong)

 

[kerouac9]

Well like the Jeffersons he is movin on up. Had a rough 8 sack game yesterday that I think will boost this club. I don't see the Lambs bringing it like that so hopefully Kev-bo can have a good game this week...stat wise.

I don't know. St. Louis has two pretty good defensive ends in Chris Long and Robert Quinn. That's twice the number of quality pass rushers than Miami had.

My perspective from field level was that Kolb often had enough time to throw the ball, he just wasn't seeing open players. I didn't walk out of that game feeling like Kevin Kolb had made a quantum leap; I walked out feeling like he was still a guy that you want to protect yourself from and make sure that you've got a firm leash on.

That's why he's not a franchise quarterback.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's what I don't get Russ. We've all seen numerous posts in here begging our QBs to just throw it to Fitz more times a game. Force it if necessary because Fitz even when not open Is open and can make a catch/play etc... Then when he does it and ends up picked the same people moan that he threw to a covered WR. It's quite funny really.

To be fair people usually mean throw it UP to him where if he doesn't get it nobody does.

Both those picks if thrown high and to the sideline aren't picks.

The point is he's too good not to throw to when he's covered at times but by the very nature of doing that you're going to throw some picks.

 

[Russ Smith]

I can tell you when Kolb is double clutching in the pocket as we saw yesterday, he is locking onto one target and waitinf for the person to get open.

As far as protection, yes it limit his ability to do certain things, but "Franchise" QBs overcome their teams limitations. They make screen passes to slow the rush, they get through their progressions, and they adjust their protection to get the best out of their protection matchups. I loved how Kolb made the most of the opportunities the defense gave him yesterday, but he missed on many of these things.

Again, I'm not saying we can't win with Kolb because we are 4-0 with him this year. What I am saying is he struggles with some elementary things which I wonder if he can ever develop. The pick in the end zone was huge to me. It is a basic roll out, one read and then throw it away. They had the lead and needed to protect the ball, and Kolb screwed up royally. As much as people were bashing Ryan Williams for fumbling in New England, they should be as upset with Kolb yesterday on that play.

I agree with much of what you said but how do you adjust protections when the protection problem is your tackles? If we're in 4 or 5 WR sets, you can't just tell the RB to chip or the TE even. We moved Housler around several times I saw him in blocking too.

But if you want to throw the ball against a team that's had trouble defending the pass, you have to have people out in the patterns. It will be very interesting to see the numbers on how well we did in max protect it seemed to work quite well at times.

So I don't think he got rushed because he misread protection schemes as much as the personnel in the game dictated what protection he could get.

 

[Russ Smith]

Recency bias much? It's hilarious to me that you're trying to assert authority after admitting that your analysis of the Arizona QB position cannot be trusted.

Let's let Kevin Kolb put a full game together before we start crowning him a Franchise quarterback, huh? I for one am still pretty unconfident when we're forced to go spread offense, shotgun formation for full series.

First HALF, Kolb was 10 of 14 for 71 yards and an INT. 5.07 YPA. And a killer and unnecessary INT where he was watching Fitz the entire way and the D just followed his eyes.

Franchise QB? Mmm... if you're going to say that this is the best that he's going to be able to offer--that this is the production that we're going to see at his top form, then I'm going to say "no."

This performance was a lot like the Washington performance that we saw last year, only the luck was on our side instead of the opposition's at the end of the game.

If this is Kolb's "Good" game, then he's Matt Cassell-level. Not a "Franchise" quarterback.

how many sacks were there in the first half though 6?

Kolb had low yardage because massie couldn't give him time to throw downfield so he was constantly throwing underneath.

Yeah that's the nature of the game with 2 new tackles but it wasn't all on Kolb.

We changed to different formations not because Kolb couldn't do it, but because our Tackles couldn't.

He made 2 very bad decisions but he made a lot of very good ones.

He's not there yet but he's much better than he was last year.

 

[Totally_Red]

I agree with much of what you said but how do you adjust protections when the protection problem is your tackles? If we're in 4 or 5 WR sets, you can't just tell the RB to chip or the TE even. We moved Housler around several times I saw him in blocking too.

But if you want to throw the ball against a team that's had trouble defending the pass, you have to have people out in the patterns. It will be very interesting to see the numbers on how well we did in max protect it seemed to work quite well at times.

So I don't think he got rushed because he misread protection schemes as much as the personnel in the game dictated what protection he could get.

On one of the successful pass plays, Rob Housler was lined up as an H-back and blasted the Dolphin defensive end before he ran his route. He literally knocked the guy back [not sure if it was Wake or Misi] and Massie given that help was able to go on the attack and hold him at bay. It's amazing what a solid chip can do to slow down a pass rusher.

 

[Russ Smith]

Meh. I don't know about all that. I don't think it's a binary decision between "Worse than Ryan Tannehill" and "Franchise Quarterback." I think that Kevin Kolb illustrated that he can be a competent starting quarterback in the NFL, but that he's probably not a top-caliber quarterback. He's probably in the bottom of the second tier of starters in the NFL.

Now, that is a huge step up from where he was at the end of last season and this preseason. But I don't think that Kolb's apologists should be taking their sharpies out of their socks quite yet, either. Congratulations, Kolb's probably not being mentioned in the same breath as Blaine Gabbert anymore.

I think most of us would agree with that, huge step up from last season.

I don't think anybody is saying he's going to be superstar just that he looks totally different than he did last year and even this preseason.

 

[desertdawg]

I don't know. St. Louis has two pretty good defensive ends in Chris Long and Robert Quinn. That's twice the number of quality pass rushers than Miami had.

My perspective from field level was that Kolb often had enough time to throw the ball, he just wasn't seeing open players. I didn't walk out of that game feeling like Kevin Kolb had made a quantum leap; I walked out feeling like he was still a guy that you want to protect yourself from and make sure that you've got a firm leash on.

That's why he's not a franchise quarterback.

I saw the same exact thing, but I am happy the happy feet have dissipated so to speak. I'm not sure if they were open or not (probably a mixed bag when it comes to that), but he appears to be headstrong on not turning it over or chucking it up just because our pocket is collapsing. I think he is honestly just now getting used to the pocket collapsing all the time instead of just waiting for the pocket to hold. If that makes any sense.

 

[kerouac9]

how many sacks were there in the first half though 6?

Kolb had low yardage because massie couldn't give him time to throw downfield so he was constantly throwing underneath.

Yeah that's the nature of the game with 2 new tackles but it wasn't all on Kolb.

We changed to different formations not because Kolb couldn't do it, but because our Tackles couldn't.

He made 2 very bad decisions but he made a lot of very good ones.

He's not there yet but he's much better than he was last year.

Okay, and let's say that half of those sacks were just Massie beaten off the line and Kolb didn't even have time to set up. Fine. That's three more plays where Kolb held the ball too long.

I'm fine with saying that Kolb is among the top 15-25 starting quarterbacks in the NFL. But I'm not going to anoint him a Franchise quarterback and greenlight his $14 million cap charge in 2013 because he was able to dig himself out of the holes that he created for himself.

Again, he's gone from being mentioned in the same breath as Blaine Gabbert to probably being better than Matt Cassell. Great job. But this thread is calling out people like me and Phrazbit and Bodha to do a victory dance because Kolb isn't complete garbage.

He hasn't shown that much yet. This game was roughly equivalent to Kolb's Dallas or Washington game last year.

 

[Shane]

I don't know. St. Louis has two pretty good defensive ends in Chris Long and Robert Quinn. That's twice the number of quality pass rushers than Miami had.

My perspective from field level was

So did the eagles. Over last three seasons they have most sacks in NFL according to stat. On game last night. Yet they didn't rough up our T's nearly as bad.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If this is Kolb's "Good" game, then he's Matt Cassell-level. Not a "Franchise" quarterback.

is anyone actually saying this was Kolb's "Good" game? I think most people are saying him being able to come back after such a terrible play was a good sign that he could be who we want him to be. But I could be wrong.

I don't think this game really swings Kolb solidly toward "franchise QB", but it definitely showed me a ton of mental toughness that I wasn't sure the kid had.

 

[kerouac9]

I think most of us would agree with that, huge step up from last season.

I don't think anybody is saying he's going to be superstar just that he looks totally different than he did last year and even this preseason.

I would beg to differ:

I guess I just don't get what people expect. Should he not throw an INT all season? Again he is 7-2 TD/ INT for the season. I don't care if both INTs were the dumbest ever thrown and al 7 TDs were absolute luck. that's impressive.

I think Shane is the only one else saying this but the "ceiling" for Kolb that K9 and others have bestowed on him based on last year and meaningless ass preseason needs to be rechecked. He hasn't missed a throw in 2 games now. He's essentially the 2nd most accurate QB we have had since moving to Az at this point and all that bitching about his "pocket presence" is unfounded. He got beat like a rag doll yesterday and still stepped up big time.

Kolb can be a Pro Bowler. I'm seeing now what I saw in him last offseason. This is EXACTLY he player I thought we were getting. He has made big throw after big throw and we stil have posters coming on the board picking things apart when the overall evidence is you have NO argument.

Again 7-2 and 4-0. One of the highest QB ratings and QBrs in the league. Nuff said.

The problem isn't Kolb anymore. it's the prism you viewed him in PRIOR to the last drive in Game 1. If this was last year and the EXACT same circumstances had taken place the first 4 games, we would be hailing our new franchise QB and some of us even might be crazy enough to compare him to Aaron Rodgers

I'm still concerned if he can stay healthy but I don't think I'm going out On a limb saying Kolb is our QB the rest of the season even WITH a couple bad games. which will happen.

But now we know he's capable of the good games too.

 

[Shane]

is anyone actually saying this was Kolb's "Good" game? I think most people are saying him being able to come back after such a terrible play was a good sign that he could be who we want him to be. But I could be wrong.

I don't think this game really swings Kolb solidly toward "franchise QB", but it definitely showed me a ton of mental toughness that I wasn't sure the kid had.

This.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

In response to the original post:

Funny when Skelton went 6-2 he didn't get that respect, why should Kolb ? Asking for respect from people when said people don't give that respect back is ridiculous. If Kolb plays poorly you are going to hear it.

That being said, I fully support Kolb. I could care less what the numbers say, funny I say that in a thread full of people who bashed John Skelton because of his poor stats, a win is a win.

Kolb is leading this team to wins, and getting the job done when he needs to. Guy has my full support.

 

[PJ1]

I saw the same exact thing, but I am happy the happy feet have dissipated so to speak. I'm not sure if they were open or not (probably a mixed bag when it comes to that), but he appears to be headstrong on not turning it over or chucking it up just because our pocket is collapsing. I think he is honestly just now getting used to the pocket collapsing all the time instead of just waiting for the pocket to hold. If that makes any sense.

Kolb had some completions that he just did get off. He was hanging in better than I have ever seen from him. This was after getting sacked numerous times. Sorry there Tommy Kelly but this guy is not afraid.

 

[desertdawg]

Okay, and let's say that half of those sacks were just Massie beaten off the line and Kolb didn't even have time to set up. Fine. That's three more plays where Kolb held the ball too long.

I'm fine with saying that Kolb is among the top 15-25 starting quarterbacks in the NFL. But I'm not going to anoint him a Franchise quarterback and greenlight his $14 million cap charge in 2013 because he was able to dig himself out of the holes that he created for himself.

Again, he's gone from being mentioned in the same breath as Blaine Gabbert to probably being better than Matt Cassell. Great job. But this thread is calling out people like me and Phrazbit and Bodha to do a victory dance because Kolb isn't complete garbage.

He hasn't shown that much yet. This game was roughly equivalent to Kolb's Dallas or Washington game last year.

If someone said Kolb was complete garbage then they should own the fact that he aint. And I wouldn't lump you in with that category, you aint the biggest Kolb fan, you diss his paycheck, but you've never said he doesn't deserve to be in the NFL or that he is useless and the Org should be fired for bringing Kolb in...none of that stuff. I don't care if folks don't care for Kolb, but some of the stuff that comes out of their keyboard is like watching FOX NEWS, it's just BS that I get tired of.

 

[Shane]

Funny when Skelton went 6-2 he didn't get that respect, why should Kolb ?

That being said I am fully supporting Kolb. But, people asking for respect they don't give others is just crazy.

Because Skelton in no way shape or form during streak looked eve half as competant as Kolb. Just check the #s clear as day. Just a fact.

 

[Russ Smith]

Okay, and let's say that half of those sacks were just Massie beaten off the line and Kolb didn't even have time to set up. Fine. That's three more plays where Kolb held the ball too long.

I'm fine with saying that Kolb is among the top 15-25 starting quarterbacks in the NFL. But I'm not going to anoint him a Franchise quarterback and greenlight his $14 million cap charge in 2013 because he was able to dig himself out of the holes that he created for himself.

Again, he's gone from being mentioned in the same breath as Blaine Gabbert to probably being better than Matt Cassell. Great job. But this thread is calling out people like me and Phrazbit and Bodha to do a victory dance because Kolb isn't complete garbage.

He hasn't shown that much yet. This game was roughly equivalent to Kolb's Dallas or Washington game last year.

Who said half were on massie I think every sack he gave up in the game was on him. I think he gave up 4 to Wake and one to Misa IIRC.

In the first half massie got beat repeatedly, for every sack they got on him there was another play that his man got pressure it seemed.

I get why you think you're being called out and I'm not one doing that. I'm just saying I don't think the sacks were on Kolb I think they were on the tackles and that's why we went spread and other formations that you mentioned. It wasn't just to help Kevin it was to help Massie and Batiste.