OT: Jonathan Martin leaves Dolphins

[Bert]

anyone who reads this article and finds Martin even possibly at fault here is probably either a bully themselves...or can't read.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...-dates-back-early-college-224648711--nfl.html

this guy is and apparently has been a nightmare forever.

Exactly, anyone who says; "Why didn't he just tell on them" obviously has never seen or dealt with bullying before, unless they were on the giving end.

Last time I checked, tattling on people who are abusing you is not always the most effective strategy, especially in an environment like a football locker room. Ya no way that coulda ended badly for Martin... Especially when dealing with a psychopath like Incognito (reference what 90% of what anyone who's ever known the guy has said about him) Sometimes the ONLY way to get yourself out of a bad situation is to remove yourself from the situation.

Fact is nobody knows eactly the position Martin was put in and so, given the evidence that has been put forth, those saying this is Martin's fault are either fake macho men or like Cheese said, bully's themselves.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Exactly, anyone who says; "Why didn't he just tell on them" obviously has never seen or dealt with bullying before, unless they were on the giving end.

Last time I checked, tattling on people who are abusing you is not always the most effective strategy, especially in an environment like a football locker room. Ya no way that coulda ended badly for Martin... Especially when dealing with a psychopath like Incognito (reference what 90% of what anyone who's ever known the guy has said about him) Sometimes the ONLY way to get yourself out of a bad situation is to remove yourself from the situation.

Fact is nobody knows eactly the position Martin was put in and so, given the evidence that has been put forth, those saying this is Martin's fault are either fake macho men or like Cheese said, bully's themselves.

my bully comment was more of a joke then anything else, but seriously...in a league where you have Hernandez, Aldon Smiths and a thug/gun culture that's probably bigger then any of us realizing, a known psychopath acting like a psychopath toward you might be someone you don't want to confront with violence.

 

[Azlen]

Exactly, anyone who says; "Why didn't he just tell on them" obviously has never seen or dealt with bullying before, unless they were on the giving end.

Last time I checked, tattling on people who are abusing you is not always the most effective strategy, especially in an environment like a football locker room. Ya no way that coulda ended badly for Martin... Especially when dealing with a psychopath like Incognito (reference what 90% of what anyone who's ever known the guy has said about him) Sometimes the ONLY way to get yourself out of a bad situation is to remove yourself from the situation.

Fact is nobody knows eactly the position Martin was put in and so, given the evidence that has been put forth, those saying this is Martin's fault are either fake macho men or like Cheese said, bully's themselves.

Difficult to tell anyone within the organization if the coaches were the ones asking Incognito to toughen him up.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...oaches-wanted-incognito-to-toughen-up-martin/

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Martin did stick up for himself; he just didn't do so in the conventional way that many here think he should have.

The Steelers linebacker you referenced is the first I ever heard of that particular situation, but being that I've been in the locker room, I've seen that far too often. Martin has now shed light on how significant hazing or abusing teammates can be, especially when it comes to using them as human ATMs for the purposes of spending endless amounts of money on South Beach activities (use your imagination).

Since this story is gaining a load of media attention, this is now going to be a talking point for the NFL headquarters, just like concussions have been. Martin did not use his brawn, he used his brain. And because of it, Incognito, one of most hated people in professional sports, is most likely going to be blackballed from the league and coaches and front office people are now going to have to ensure the locker room is not being conducted in such a way that it promotes the use of hazing or abusing other players.

I'm not defending Incognito at all. He deserves what he gets. I'm not saying Martin was wrong either. I'm just saying for that particular environment, an NFL locker room, Martin did himself no favors by handling it the way he did. That's why I used the prison reference. I'm not saying it's right, but players, as has been stated by many, are going to question Martin's actions as well.

Plus, in my opinion, people are re-directing the traditional bullying nomenclature of school yard bullying and transferring it to an NFL locker room that is filled with grown adult men and that is not nearly an equivalent sitaution.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I don't think we are in a position to judge Martin's actions in this case. We really have very few details and no reason to assume that he handled this incorrectly.

We don't know what would have happened had Martin responded in kind. For all we know, this thing could have turned into something much worse had he resorted to violence to try to put an end to it.

 

[Hollywood]

I don't think we are in a position to judge Martin's actions in this case. We really have very few details and no reason to assume that he handled this incorrectly.

We don't know what would have happened had Martin responded in kind. For all we know, this thing could have turned into something much worse had he resorted to violence to try to put an end to it.

Dansby was doing an interview on 620 today and was asked if Martin handled it wrong. Dansby said absolutely not. Incognito threatened to kill him and you don't go picking fights with people that are threatening to kill you because you never know when they might act on that.

Remember that Los played with Incognito last year.

 

[D-Dogg]

incognito is one of my most hated players ever. seriously. major effing doucheface.

I am so happy to see this assface gone. Can't talk about the integrity of the shield and have players like him representing it.

 

[ajcardfan]

I don't think we are in a position to judge Martin's actions in this case. We really have very few details and no reason to assume that he handled this incorrectly.

We don't know what would have happened had Martin responded in kind. For all we know, this thing could have turned into something much worse had he resorted to violence to try to put an end to it.

Only a ******* would resort to a felony to resolve a situation. The only way he should've done that was if he was physically attacked.


Martin went to Stanford, he's no *******.

 

[D-Dogg]

Dansby was doing an interview on 620 today and was asked if Martin handled it wrong. Dansby said absolutely not. Incognito threatened to kill him and you don't go picking fights with people that are threatening to kill you because you never know when they might act on that.

Remember that Los played with Incognito last year.

Especially in a league where you have the Aaron Hernandez, Rae Carruth, Aldon Smith types (no, Aldon didn't kill anyone...yet).

 

[cardpa]

I'm not defending Incognito at all. He deserves what he gets. I'm not saying Martin was wrong either. I'm just saying for that particular environment, an NFL locker room, Martin did himself no favors by handling it the way he did. That's why I used the prison reference. I'm not saying it's right, but players, as has been stated by many, are going to question Martin's actions as well.

Plus, in my opinion, people are re-directing the traditional bullying nomenclature of school yard bullying and transferring it to an NFL locker room that is filled with grown adult men and that is not nearly an equivalent sitaution.

Not sure who he could have gone to as Incognito was their player rep and it's now reported that the coaches told Incognito to toughen Martin up so they apparently were part of it or at least knew about it so he couldn't go to the coaching staff either. It's also apparent that other players were in on it so where do you go?

I also think Martin's upbringing had something to do with how he handled it. Having lawyers for parents probably set the tone of you don't fight fire with fire you let the legal system take care of it. In this case since there is no real legal system (in the NFL) he simply decided to walk away from it and put distance between him and the situation.

 

[BigRedRage]

As others have noted, Patton nearly lost his command over this situation.

Patton went and slapped a man going through severe PTSD. He is no better than Richie Incognito. I mean, is a man going through severe PTSD even combat effective? I wouldn't want someone with severe PTSD watching my six. It's irresponsible and poor leadership to not remove people from your formations that can't serve in combat.

PTSD is a real and debilitating condition. Patton was a punk for treating that man that way.

I dont think in Pattons days we realized the severity of shell shock among other things. With the research and knowledge we have now he may not have acted that way.

PAtton was a bonified bad ass and fighting in a war is much different than being an NFL player.

 

[Southpaw]

?

The Sun Sentinel, citing at least two sources, reported Tuesday that Dolphins coaches asked Incognito to toughen Martin up this past spring, after Martin missed a voluntary team workout. The sources told the Sun Sentinel that Incognito took the request too far.

 

[Totally_Red]

?

Who would have thought that Greg Schiano and TB would be the more stable team coming into the TB-Miami game this weekend?

Mike Bidwill was on KTAR talking about the Miami situation and basically said 'you have to be careful about who you bring into your locker room.'

Miami brought Richie Incognito into their locker room and it blew up in their face.

 

[Mulli]

I dont think in Pattons days we realized the severity of shell shock among other things. With the research and knowledge we have now he may not have acted that way.

PAtton was a bonified bad ass and fighting in a war is much different than being an NFL player.

Ya, Gen. Patton apologized to all present for that incident. He also was the mos successful General in the European theatre in WWII, so I fail to see any connection whatsoever.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Incognito is the biggest douchebag this league has ever seen, I don't even have to hear Martin's story, to know who is 100% at fault.

You built your fine name/rep Richie, now friggen enjoy it.
Hope you saved some $$ for a rainy day...... idiot.

 

[PDXChris]

Incognito is the biggest douchebag this league has ever seen, I don't even have to hear Martin's story, to know who is 100% at fault.

You built your fine name/rep Richie, now friggen enjoy it.
Hope you saved some $$ for a rainy day...... idiot.

Sorry, as bad as Incongnito it, he will never be Rae Carruth.

 

[Zeno]

Sorry, as bad as Incongnito it, he will never be Rae Carruth.

Yeah, but Carruths problems weren't on the field or in the locker room, they were completely non-team related. He was a piece of trash in a completely different order.

 

[Mulli]

Aaron Hernandez for the win. Threatened to kill opposing players an their families.

 

[cardncubfan]

As others have noted, Patton nearly lost his command over this situation.

Patton went and slapped a man going through severe PTSD. He is no better than Richie Incognito. I mean, is a man going through severe PTSD even combat effective? I wouldn't want someone with severe PTSD watching my six. It's irresponsible and poor leadership to not remove people from your formations that can't serve in combat.

PTSD is a real and debilitating condition. Patton was a punk for treating that man that way.

Thanks for the insight Krang & thanks for your service.

 

[Russ Smith]

I agree with what Rolle said. Why Martin didn't stick up for himself is another question? Obvioulsy, we don't know the whole story but just giving up and hoping it goes away isn't really a solution in that type of environment.

Merril Hoge was telling a story about a LB on the Steelers that constantly rode a rookie TE hard. He said the LB was a known intimidating force but the rookie TE was also a big dude. It kept going on and then one day after practice, the LB was riding the TE again and finally the TE finally grabbed him by the throat and threw the LB to the ground and said, "this ends now". And...... it ended then.

That's the culture in the NFL. It's not a bunch of business people sitting around drinking coffee. It's kind of like the story you hear about when someone goes to prison. They look for the biggest guy and fight him just to show they're not a person to be messed with and try to earn the others respect.

I'm not saying that's necessarily right, but that's the way it is.

Apparently not in his nature to do that and why should it have to be? the claim they were discussing on ESPN today is that there's apparently rumor that the Dolphins coaches thought Martin wasn't tough enough and told Incognito to "toughen him up." At least that is expected to be Incognito's defense on this he did what he was asked to do as a member of the teams "leadership council."

the other thing is Incognito was the ringleader but this was the entire offensive line, we're not talking one 300 pound dirty guy in Incognito we're talking at least 3 others and who knows if the backups were involved, if Martin actually felt physically threatened, it was by more than one guy.

It's easy to say why didn't Martin fight back but frankly I think he DID, he just did it using non violent measures, players that don't like that are mad he broke some unwritten code but unwritten codes are usually put in place by the bullies enforcing them in my experience.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Apparently not in his nature to do that and why should it have to be? the claim they were discussing on ESPN today is that there's apparently rumor that the Dolphins coaches thought Martin wasn't tough enough and told Incognito to "toughen him up." At least that is expected to be Incognito's defense on this he did what he was asked to do as a member of the teams "leadership council."

the other thing is Incognito was the ringleader but this was the entire offensive line, we're not talking one 300 pound dirty guy in Incognito we're talking at least 3 others and who knows if the backups were involved, if Martin actually felt physically threatened, it was by more than one guy.

It's easy to say why didn't Martin fight back but frankly I think he DID, he just did it using non violent measures, players that don't like that are mad he broke some unwritten code but unwritten codes are usually put in place by the bullies enforcing them in my experience.

Pretty much.

This whole thing is a mess and it's only going to get worse.

It's a situation that Martin has thought long and hard about and obviously put him under some sort of duress. He's smart enough to know that there would be some backlash against him and it is easy to forsee this type of commentary.

However, if he just turned around and smacked Richie then he would either have a situation that could physically spiral out of hand with him initiating a violent circumstance or it would validate Richie and show that his "methods worked" and now Martin was "tougher" - which would only lead to more people dealing with this nonsense.

I have never been shy about considering Ron Wolfley to be a complete and utter blowhard and even trying to put that bias aside his recent commentary has been completely over the top ......... yesterday he said something to the extent that if players are able to go to an HR type of position where these issues could be settled in a professional way then "we all lose" - I'm not quite sure what I lose though or what a guy like Martin would lose

Hiding behind a culture can only get you so far

 

[Russ Smith]

Pretty much.

This whole thing is a mess and it's only going to get worse.

It's a situation that Martin has thought long and hard about and obviously put him under some sort of duress. He's smart enough to know that there would be some backlash against him and it is easy to forsee this type of commentary.

However, if he just turned around and smacked Richie then he would either have a situation that could physically spiral out of hand with him initiating a violent circumstance or it would validate Richie and show that his "methods worked" and now Martin was "tougher" - which would only lead to more people dealing with this nonsense.

I have never been shy about considering Ron Wolfley to be a complete and utter blowhard and even trying to put that bias aside his recent commentary has been completely over the top ......... yesterday he said something to the extent that if players are able to go to an HR type of position where these issues could be settled in a professional way then "we all lose" - I'm not quite sure what I lose though or what a guy like Martin would lose

Hiding behind a culture can only get you so far

Yeah I wasn't aware of Wolfley's comments but they don't surprise me at all that sounds like something he would say.

This is the kind of stuff that happens in junior high and everyone knows but is afraid to say something.

When you get to the NFL there's so many people involved it's impossible to not believe people knew, they were just looking the other way because somewhere along the way they learned to not say anything.

The Dolphins are going to get picked apart by this, it's could tear that organization apart depending on how many levels up this goes.

And as others have pointed out, his parents are lawyers, this kid is smart, he's been collecting evidence for awhile here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Pretty much.

This whole thing is a mess and it's only going to get worse.

It's a situation that Martin has thought long and hard about and obviously put him under some sort of duress. He's smart enough to know that there would be some backlash against him and it is easy to forsee this type of commentary.

However, if he just turned around and smacked Richie then he would either have a situation that could physically spiral out of hand with him initiating a violent circumstance or it would validate Richie and show that his "methods worked" and now Martin was "tougher" - which would only lead to more people dealing with this nonsense.

I have never been shy about considering Ron Wolfley to be a complete and utter blowhard and even trying to put that bias aside his recent commentary has been completely over the top ......... yesterday he said something to the extent that if players are able to go to an HR type of position where these issues could be settled in a professional way then "we all lose" - I'm not quite sure what I lose though or what a guy like Martin would lose

Hiding behind a culture can only get you so far

wolfley continues to show what an ignoramus he is.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

the funny thing is that people say that Martin is soft, etc

however, he decided to stand up to the face of backlash and blow the entire lid off that lockerroom ........ he's going for incognitos career and has the power to go for his money if he wants

while this can harm Martins professional standing - his individual power against Incognito right now is massive

 

[GuernseyCard]

Two things:


Media reports from Miami that Incognito was given the job of toughening up Martin and the call in question came after Martin missed a few OTA's.

Martin is not the wuss some seem to the think. He instigated a wild brawl with Randy Starks in training camp.