OT: Jonathan Martin leaves Dolphins

[Russ Smith]

the funny thing is that people say that Martin is soft, etc

however, he decided to stand up to the face of backlash and blow the entire lid off that lockerroom ........ he's going for incognitos career and has the power to go for his money if he wants

while this can harm Martins professional standing - his individual power against Incognito right now is massive

yep, I have to admit i hope he shows no mercy on Incognito.

But he probably will be the bigger man and let it go once the whole story is out.

 

[Southpaw]

Miami Dolphins have a Leadership Council in lieu of Captains.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/9/3/4690256/dolphins-name-new-leadership-council

The Miami Dolphins don’t have captains under head coach Joe Philbin. Instead, the team instituted a “leadership council” last season after the Chad Johnson release, led by Jake Long and Karlos Dansby. The team has reformed the council this year with six new members.

It may not actually be a position a player for the Miami Dolphins wants, but the team has formed the 2013 version of their "leadership council." Started last year after Karlos Dansby, Jake Long, and Reggie Bush approached head coach Joe Philbin with concerns following the release of wide receiver Chad Johnson, the council replaces the traditional "captain" selection, which Coach Philbin does not use.

The only issue with being on the council is, every player that was on it last year is no longer with the team. The Dolphins released Dansby in March and did not renew the contracts of either Long or Bush. Add in the fourth member of the council, wide receiver Davone Bess, who the team traded during the Draft, and it was a clean sweep.

This year, the Dolphins have named quarterback Ryan Tannehill, center Mike Pouncey, guard Richie Incognito, defensive end Cameron Wake, defensive tackle Paul Soliai, and linebacker Dannell Ellerbe on the council. Five of the six players are veterans with the team, while Ellerbe is a newcomer, joining the team in free agency this year after winning the Super Bowl last season with the Baltimore Ravens. Incognito and Soliai are both entering the final year of their contracts, but these six seem to have a more solid feeling than the previous council...

 

[JeffGollin]

I like the fact that so many people are talking about this. There are so many facets:

- I imagine we've all run into some form of bullying or towel-snapping at various points in our lives and dealt with it in different ways (& with varying degrees of success). I can think of three occasions where, in response to bullying, I fought back (won twice/lost once). There were other times when I simply refused to acknowledge attempts to intimidate in the hope it would go away (It worked most of the time - the bullying attempt typically turned out to be a dude's way of saying "howdy!").

- Antrel Rolle's comment (that Martin needed to "be a 'man'") failed to acknowledge that those participating in hazing activity on the Dolphs weren't exactly acting like grownups.

-I'm staying away from Incognito as an issue because we don't know all the facts yet. (But from the standpoint of being a dirty player, I think he's a punk whose penalties have cost his teams football games).

- Someone brought up the differences in culture that might have contributed to the conflict between Incognito (Jersey guy and son of a military vet) and Martin (son of two Harvard grads, attended a prestigious west coast prep school and the Stanford). Oil and water perhaps?

- Is the whole bit about "rite of passage" and earning trust a legitimate part of building a winning organization? Or can this be done without any or most hazing?

- Where do you draw the line? Personally, if I ran (a male-dominated) organization, I'd simply ban it - all of it. (True, boys will be boys, but in the pros, it's time to act like grownups).

- But if an organization absolutely felt hazing should be a colorful (& fun) part of its culture and that it helps "build character", how about this for starters. The line stops at: physical pain or injury, financial-profit at the expense of others and/or the demeaning of an individual's background or ethnic heritage.

- I agree with something a Cardinal coach or player said about our needing our young players to help us win games and that we don't want them to feel bad about being here.

Anyway - I'm glad the issue is being discussed - I think it's a universal problem.

 

[Southpaw]

There is a concept that baffles me concerning "hazing". If players who are hazed dislike the process ( which makes sense ) , then why is it perpetuated and rationalized by the same players who were victims? Seems very flawed and disturbing.

BTW, I thought hiring Philbin was a terrible choice when it happened. The Dolphins were rebuffed by more than a few candidates and settled for Philbin. His lack of institutional control ( borrowed that from the NCAA), would seem to indicate he is in way over his head and was a mistake choice. Now he will be the whipping boy for the Dolphins.

 

[CardsFan88]

The way Martin handled this has initiated the process where the biggest positive impact will be made.

In the future, we know how to handle this situation... walk away from the team because you know reporters are going to ask questions.

Also since this was a relatively structured situation ordered from up high, had he reacted, it might easily have escalated because while a bully gets off on scaring someone and might get swayed by some reaction, a bully who thinks he is also 'trying to do his job' and backed up by all the others involved could have created quite a dangerous situation for Martin. Not all the same tricks work when the bully is sanctioned and backed up.

Hitting back only takes a swing, exposing the whole process takes brains, guts, and determination.

I don't see how the Dolphins aren't majorly sanctioned, and because it comes on the heels of the Saints bounty issues, I expect the penalties to be bigger.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

-I'm staying away from Incognito as an issue because we don't know all the facts yet. (But from the standpoint of being a dirty player, I think he's a punk whose penalties have cost his teams football games).

Really?

You need more facts that the clip of Richie Incognito threatening Martin's family?

Real easy question for you: What if he was saying that about your family ? You think you would have enough facts then ?

For me? There are more than enough facts.

 

[Russ Smith]

Really?

You need more facts that the clip of Richie Incognito threatening Martin's family?

Real easy question for you: What if he was saying that about your family ? You think you would have enough facts then ?

For me? There are more than enough facts.

100% agree, there's just no context where that would be ok in my book so the taken out of context argument doesn't hold water here for me.

Incognito is what he has always been, lots of people recognized it over the years, for whatever reason Miami not only tolerated it, they promoted it and now it's going to bite them in the rear end hard.

The world isn't perfect but I still like to believe in Karma and in my karmic world people like Richie Incognito eventually get what they deserve.

 

[BACH]

Miami Dolphins have a Leadership Council in lieu of Captains.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/9/3/4690256/dolphins-name-new-leadership-council

Then the organisation has failed big time. The Leadership council should have been on top of this and if not - then the coaches should have stepped in.

Being on top of the hierarchy on a football team comes has privileges, but certainly also comes with responsibilities. I speak from experience, being the captain of a team for 3 years, I had an extra responsibility of making sure that we were a team. For me that included helping out two players coming out of the closet and trying re-include a starting guard back into training after having a depression.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Martin is not the wuss some seem to the think.

If a player gets to the NFL level I doubt there's ANY wuss in him.

 

[Southpaw]

Check out the video of Richie Incognito going berserk at Dirty Blondes sleaze bar on Ft Lauderdale beach. It is a TMZ video, not You Tube.

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2013/11/richie_incognito_dropped_the_n.php

 

[Southpaw]

I have heard via ESPN and NFL Network varying takes from NFL players on this event. It seems that the major objection and sometimes only objection to Richie's behavior is that he used a racial epithet. The other stuff doesn't bother them. Wow. Murder threats, extortion, etc. don't bother them. That is one messed up culture.

The one commentary, I heard, that surprised me to no end, was Warren Sapp's. Heard it this morning on NFL Network. Very positive and laughed at the extreme reaction to the racial aspect. Referred to Tony Dungy's no hazing policy. Anyone else catch it?

 

[wa52lz]

Its looking like Incognito isnt the racist, it's the other black players, who didnt accept Martin's upbringing, he wasnt "street" enough for them. It comes down to the majority of the locker room thought he was soft and a punk, for whatever reason, and Incognito gets to be the fall guy. This sure dosnt look like a Incognito/Martin issue, or a racial issue.......

"One of the most curious aspects of the Richie Incognito-Jonathan Martin story is how race has become very much a part of it outside the Dolphins locker room -- in the media and among fans and observers -- but not at all so far within the Dolphins locker room.
Think of this:
Richie Incognito left Jonathan Martin a voice mail that, among other things, called Martin a "half-n----r." And Dolphins players of color, knowing of the voicemail, have expressed no problems with Incognito.
"I don't have a problem with Richie," Mike Wallace said. "I love Richie."
"I don't think Richie is a racist," cornerback Brent Grimes said.
"Richie Incognito isn't a racist," tight end Michael Egnew said.
ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.
"They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.
“They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”
How is this possible?
Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.
And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.
"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."
Another former Dolphins employee told me Martin is considered "soft" by his teammates and that's a reason he's not readily accepted by some of the players, particularly the black players. His background -- Stanford educated and the son of highly educated people -- was not necessarily seen as a strength or a positive by some players and it perpetuated in the way Martin carried himself.
And so -- agree with it or not, comprehend it or not -- this is a reason the Dolphins haven't turned on Incognito as a racist."
Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...ck-in-dolphins-locker-room.html#storylink=cpy

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Its looking like Incognito isnt the racist, it's the other black players, who didnt accept Martin's upbringing, he wasnt "street" enough for them. It comes down to the majority of the locker room thought he was soft and a punk, for whatever reason, and Incognito gets to be the fall guy. This sure dosnt look like a Incognito/Martin issue, or a racial issue.......

The Fall Guy, really?

Lets just take the racist element out of the equation and leave everything else in play.

It most certainly is a Martin/Incognito issue, as Incognito left the barrage of threatening texts and voicemails. There may be others complicit in this, but it appear Incognito is the ring leader.

BTW, it is Incognito throwing out the N word and it is certainly not meant to impart that he is an "honory brother." (totally ridiculous, BTW).

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

As for the "soft" allegations, IMO it takes a lot more stregnth to be a pacificst and/or turn the other cheek than to punch an ******* in the face.

This isnt the freaking street, it is a work environment regardless of the venure of the work environment.

There is a total lack of institutional control at Dolphins HQ and I hope Martin sues the crap out of them.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

The Fall Guy, really?

Lets just take the racist element out of the equation and leave everything else in play.

It most certainly is a Martin/Incognito issue, as Incognito left the barrage of threatening texts and voicemails. There may be others complicit in this, but it appear Incognito is the ring leader.

BTW, it is Incognito throwing out the N word and it is certainly not meant to impart that he is an "honory brother." (totally ridiculous, BTW).

You don't get it. You're not an honorary black man. You'll never understand.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

You don't get it. You're not an honorary black man. You'll never understand.

LOL.

 

[wa52lz]

The Fall Guy, really?

Lets just take the racist element out of the equation and leave everything else in play.

It most certainly is a Martin/Incognito issue, as Incognito left the barrage of threatening texts and voicemails. There may be others complicit in this, but it appear Incognito is the ring leader.

BTW, it is Incognito throwing out the N word and it is certainly not meant to impart that he is an "honory brother." (totally ridiculous, BTW).

Of course we take the racist element out, becuase there isnt one. Where is this barrage of texts and VMs??, all that has been documented is one voicemail sent in April, allegedly at the request of the coaching staff becuase Martin missed OTA's. In no way am I defending Incognito, he is a POS, but this goes way beyond him. He was elected to the leadership council by the players, he is being supported by his teammates in this whole thing, so it seems like he has the respect of the locker room and some pull amongst the players, which makes sense that he would be approached by a coach(es) (if true) to make the call to Martin. Martin being singled out becuase he didnt fit in, goes way beyond Incognito, but he is the one on tape (dumb enough to do it), so he is the fall guy right now. More and more will come out and we'll see it goes way beyond Incognito/Martin.

BTW I wasnt the one that named Incognito an "honorary brother"

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Bringing family into it is over the line.

Period.

The rest ? Go ahead and debate, I personally don't have a comment on it.

 

[wa52lz]

As for the "soft" allegations, IMO it takes a lot more stregnth to be a pacificst and/or turn the other cheek than to punch an ******* in the face.

This isnt the freaking street, it is a work environment regardless of the venure of the work environment.

There is a total lack of institutional control at Dolphins HQ and I hope Martin sues the crap out of them.

IMO an NFL locker room is much more like the "street", then it is a "regular work environment", totally different set of values and what is considered strong or weak. Unfortunately for Martin, turning the other cheek is seen as a weakness not a strength in that environment. IMO this goes way beyond the Dolphins locker room and is probably the norm in most.

 

[Dback Jon]

Yeah, Mike Pouncey is a great role model himself

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Dolphins had both HIM and Incognito on their "Leadership" Council

 

[Dan H]

Local sports radio in Indy had a former Rams coach who's now with the Colts on as Colts are playing them this week. Host asked about Incognito, former coach said flat out, Richie is a psycopath and any coach who trusted him to be a positive motivating force is a moron. No words were minced. Talked about how coaches would use guys like Gary Brackett and Jeff Saturday in a similar role, IE, "Gary, Jeff, player Y has a problem with booze, help him get cleaned up." But said that they knew that those guys were more of the build a guy up type rather than nuts like Incognito.

 

[JeffGollin]

Really?

You need more facts that the clip of Richie Incognito threatening Martin's family?

Real easy question for you: What if he was saying that about your family ? You think you would have enough facts then ?

For me? There are more than enough facts.

Good point. But your real easy question will remain a hypothetical one until I actually hear Incognito's comments and the context in which they were made.

My hypothetical answer would be: "If I felt it was a legitimate threat to my family, I'd do whatever was necessary to neutralize the threat." But as ugly as Incognito's comments may be, we supposedly live in a civilized society where the rule of law trumps a lynch-mob (ready...fire...aim) approach to settling disputes. This isn't a matter of "doing unto others before they do unto you." It won't hurt to wait a day or two to gather more info before rushing to judgment.

 

[wa52lz]

Bringing family into it is over the line.

Period.

The rest ? Go ahead and debate, I personally don't have a comment on it.

Has anything other then the VM, when he said i'll slap your mother, been confirmed? When you read the transcript of that VM it says he laughed after saying that, i'd sure like to listen to it and hear the tone of that call. Was it diabolic laughter or messing with a teammate laughter. IMO there has been a way to fast rush to judgement here, based on the transcript of one leaked VM and a lot of "unnamed sources" and conjuncture. I don't understand why this part of the story is quickly dismissed as Incognito trying to cover up....
"NFL Network reporter Jeff Darlington says Martin on Friday sent text messages back to Incognito, who reached out to find out how his fellow lineman was doing.
Despite Incognito being accused of tormenting Martin, Martin called Incognito “buddy” in a text.
“How u doing buddy?” Martin replied to Incognito, according to Darlington.
Martin also told Incognito he was doing good and explained some of what bothered him.
“Yeah, I’m good man. It’s insane bro but just know I don’t blame you guys at all it’s just the culture around football and the locker room got to me a little.”

rather then him being actually concerned for his team mate. He sure dosnt seem like the sharpest tool and to him the "bullying" may have been part of being on the team. Martin's high school coach had an interesting point when he said that Martin wasnt used to being around "Nebraska and LSU" kind of guys. Im sure Incognito isnt used to being around Stanford, Rice and Duke, guys. I am also willing to bet that his "bullying" has been accepted in the other locker rooms he's been a part of and he's never been told it's not acceptable. Does not make it right, but is something society has allowed to go on in athletics at many levels.

 

[Russ Smith]

Has anything other then the VM, when he said i'll slap your mother, been confirmed? When you read the transcript of that VM it says he laughed after saying that, i'd sure like to listen to it and hear the tone of that call. Was it diabolic laughter or messing with a teammate laughter. IMO there has been a way to fast rush to judgement here, based on the transcript of one leaked VM and a lot of "unnamed sources" and conjuncture. I don't understand why this part of the story is quickly dismissed as Incognito trying to cover up....
"NFL Network reporter Jeff Darlington says Martin on Friday sent text messages back to Incognito, who reached out to find out how his fellow lineman was doing.
Despite Incognito being accused of tormenting Martin, Martin called Incognito “buddy” in a text.
“How u doing buddy?” Martin replied to Incognito, according to Darlington.
Martin also told Incognito he was doing good and explained some of what bothered him.
“Yeah, I’m good man. It’s insane bro but just know I don’t blame you guys at all it’s just the culture around football and the locker room got to me a little.”

rather then him being actually concerned for his team mate. He sure dosnt seem like the sharpest tool and to him the "bullying" may have been part of being on the team. Martin's high school coach had an interesting point when he said that Martin wasnt used to being around "Nebraska and LSU" kind of guys. Im sure Incognito isnt used to being around Stanford, Rice and Duke, guys. I am also willing to bet that his "bullying" has been accepted in the other locker rooms he's been a part of and he's never been told it's not acceptable. Does not make it right, but is something society has allowed to go on in athletics at many levels.

huh? He was suspended at Nebraska for doing exactly this, bullying a teammate until the teammate walked out on practice and complained to the coaches. He was eventually kicked off the team at Nebraska. he enrolled at Oregon and was kicked off the team within weeks, never even got close to a game there before they decided what a moron he was.

He's even gone on record saying the reason he is this way is that he was bullied himself as a kid. He knows 100% that bullying is not acceptable.

 

[wa52lz]

huh? He was suspended at Nebraska for doing exactly this, bullying a teammate until the teammate walked out on practice and complained to the coaches. He was eventually kicked off the team at Nebraska. he enrolled at Oregon and was kicked off the team within weeks, never even got close to a game there before they decided what a moron he was.

He's even gone on record saying the reason he is this way is that he was bullied himself as a kid. He knows 100% that bullying is not acceptable.

Does he?? What was his reward for that behavior at Nebraska and Oregon? A multi-million dollar NFL career, why becuase of his mean streak and nasty attitude. He learned to talk the talk and say the right things in an interview, but his reality is that actions speak much louder when it comes to the NFL. Who has the better chance on being on an NFL roster next season, him or Martin? Who is more respected by players in the NFL?? It's a shame that the answer to those questions is most likely, Richie Incognito.