OUT LOUD: Thomas Jones

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He didn't change his circumstances. The Cardinals where forced to trade him because he was such a huge dissapointment.

If TJ played to his abilities maybe the Cardinals would of won a few more games and could of changed the dynamic of a few seasons. Or maybe he could of become a building block for the Cardinals like Tomlinson became for the Chargers. Or maybe he could of left the Cardinals in FA and now be a lot more financialy secure. He didn't do any of that. He just felt sorry for himself.

He isn't the sole reason the Cardinals where in the cellar. I never said that. But he sure as heck contributed to it and did nothing to change the mentality of this team. He could of. He had the talent.

Just because he played on a bad team doesn't make him any less accountable for his play. Just because he is playing well for Chicago I don't have to forget that. Nor do I have to become a fan ether.

is he playing in az? no? i think his circumstances have changed.

and i don't think him playing any better (if that truly was possible behind our line with our offensive coordinator and the general putridity of the team) would have meant more wins for us. we were that bad.

and "become a building block" like LT? surely you jest. even as well as he's done for chicago no one is mistaking his talent for LT's. he couldn't become a cornerstone, he's just not that talented.

i'm not saying that you shouldn't hold him accountable. they should ALL be held accountable. what i am saying is that he shouldn't be crucified for being upset with having to play for the cards. if i wasn't a cards fan and i was getting drafted i would be bummed too. same if i was being drafted by the clippers. when one is about to enter into their chosen profession who wants to go to work for a loser? we're different than professional athletes, to a certain extent we can pick and choose between employers. generally we choose to go to the best employer who will hire us. pro athletes don't get that choice. now i'm not saying you should bear them any pity, they get paid a whole lot to play a game (albeit a game that generally causes them to degenerate into physical wrecks in their middle aged years), but that doesn't make them any less human. and i just think it's human to want to avoid working for a crappy employer. and the cards have been that for years. don't kill him for being human.

 

[dinesh15]

"But probably 20 minutes after the draft I realized where I was going -- to Arizona -- and that's a place I really wasn't excited about. As a matter of fact, before the draft, I met Brian Urlacher and some of the other guys who were top picks, and a lot of guys were saying, "I'm not going to Arizona; you are." We were going back and forth about who was going to Arizona, and nobody wanted to go there."

Guys like TJ just because they have found some success talk whatever they want..So, what kinda life did he have before he was drafted??? Probably if he was undrafted he would have begged for a chance to play for Arizona... I am pretty sure he is not going to be a pro- bowl RB or some RB who is going to have great 6 or 7 seasons. I think he is a one year wonder and lets see how he performs the next 2 years..These guys (including guys like Eli) should start understanding how they are fortunate to play for a NFL team and should stop talking crap like this just because they have found some success in some other team

 

[Redsz]

is he playing in az? no? i think his circumstances have changed.

But he didn't change them. The Cardinals changed them. If the Cardinals didn't trade him he would of kept playing like he did and acting like he did. That doesn't show me that he would of changed his situation i.e be pro active.

and i don't think him playing any better (if that truly was possible behind our line with our offensive coordinator and the general putridity of the team) would have meant more wins for us. we were that bad.

I think it would of. It's amazing what happens when a running back runs hard and doesn't go down on first contact. He could of changed the course of a few games just by doing that.

and "become a building block" like LT? surely you jest. even as well as he's done for chicago no one is mistaking his talent for LT's. he couldn't become a cornerstone, he's just not that talented.

He isn't an LT talent. But he is a talent and could of become a building block for the Cardinals. You don't have to the best in NFL to be such a player for a franchise.

i'm not saying that you shouldn't hold him accountable. they should ALL be held accountable. what i am saying is that he shouldn't be crucified for being upset with having to play for the cards. if i wasn't a cards fan and i was getting drafted i would be bummed too. same if i was being drafted by the clippers.when one is about to enter into their chosen profession who wants to go to work for a loser? we're different than professional athletes, to a certain extent we can pick and choose between employers. generally we choose to go to the best employer who will hire us. pro athletes don't get that choice. now i'm not saying you should bear them any pity, they get paid a whole lot to play a game (albeit a game that generally causes them to degenerate into physical wrecks in their middle aged years), but that doesn't make them any less human. and i just think it's human to want to avoid working for a crappy employer. and the cards have been that for years. don't kill him for being human.

Being upset and playing for a 'loser' aren't excuses, nor is it a legit reason to behave and act like he did. Not in my opinion atleast.

For us normal working joe's, if you are lucky enough and or have worked hard enough, you get the chance to choose which company you work for. But for the vast majority, I would say that isn't the case. Because for the vast majority, they have to work out of necessity (sp?).

I'm working for a company right now that I am not a fan of. But it doesn't mean I come into work and half ass it. And that seems to be the case for many others on ASFN. Maybe if you work hard enough you can change the culture of the company for the better. Or maybe if you work hard enough, you can get recognized for it and you get the oppurtunity to move onto something better.

So hypothetically, if I was a professional athlete, I can't see myself ducking my obligations like that. Even if I had to play for the Browns or 9er's or Texans or any other 'loser'. Playing for such a team or company (in our case) isn't an excuse. It's just a lack work ethic and alot of self pity on TJ's part. At any time he had the chnace to change his situation. He didn't.

 

[Pariah]

If I were a pro football player and not a cardinals fan, I'd HATE going to the Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals. for the most part they've been a joke and their attendance reflects it.

TJ may be less of a "lunch-pail" player because he seems to have dragged ass playing for a team where he clearly didn't want to be, but there's nothing wrong with reporting he was unhappy about having to begin his career in a football wasteland (my words, not his).

Should he have sacked up and played his heart out anyway? Yeah, but he didn't.

 

[Mulli]

If I lived in Phoenix still, I would probably care about what Thomas Jones said. But now that I am in Chicago, all I can say is "Go Bears!"

 

[duckfallas]

His play reflected his lack of desire to be in Arizona. He didn't seem to be complaining about Arizona when the Bidwills handed him that big fat signing bonus check.

How different would this team be right now if they had taken Alexander or Urlacher? One of the biggest bonehead drafts in Arizona Cardinals history. Damn Ferguson and Tobin.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

His play reflected his lack of desire to be in Arizona. He didn't seem to be complaining about Arizona when the Bidwills handed him that big fat signing bonus check.

How different would this team be right now if they had taken Alexander or Urlacher? One of the biggest bonehead drafts in Arizona Cardinals history. Damn Ferguson and Tobin.

I was at the draft party that day and everybody was ecstatic we took Jones. The Wadsworth pick was liked at the time......Bryant was 50/50.

We just have an incredibly bad curse. I still to this day say that if we would have picked J Lewis and the Ravens got Jones, that they still would have won the Super Bowl and we still would have had a flame out.

I guess the Training Facility must be built on an old Indian burial ground or something.

 

[duckfallas]

I remember Jones was being billed as the next Emmitt Smith. I wanted them to draft Alexander over Jones if they were going to draft a RB. But I really wanted them to draft Urlacher because players like him come around maybe once every 10 years. Oh well, none of them are Cardinals now.

 

[phillycard]

What throws a monkey wrench into the whole discussion is guys like Q and Fitz. Here they are both languishing on a bad team, yet they perform at a level not comprehensible by the average player. I'm never trying to hear what anyone has to say bad about playing for the Cardinals, or any bad team for that matter. These guys elevate their own play, and pull the team up with them. That's what GOOD players do. TJ is soft and a bum, plain and simple. I was happy for his newfound success at first, but not now.

 

[Duckjake]

What throws a monkey wrench into the whole discussion is guys like Q and Fitz. Here they are both languishing on a bad team, yet they perform at a level not comprehensible by the average player. I'm never trying to hear what anyone has to say bad about playing for the Cardinals, or any bad team for that matter. These guys elevate their own play, and pull the team up with them. That's what GOOD players do. TJ is soft and a bum, plain and simple. I was happy for his newfound success at first, but not now.

And remember that Boldin delivered a pro bowl rookie of the year performance before Dennis Green arrived.

 

[phillycard]

And remember that Boldin delivered a pro bowl rookie of the year performance before Dennis Green arrived.

Exactly!! And we were even worse then! If that's possible.

 

[football karma]

TJ didnt exactly light it up in Tampa after he was traded. I guess that was the Cardinals fault as well.

Maybe the light went on for him after 4 years, maybe he realized that he was running out of opportunities. Who knows.

Beleive it or not, I have more respect for Simeon Rice. At least he produced while he was here.

I guess I find it a bit bothersome to hear some player bag on a team that isnt a good place to be because it doesnt win when he was an active and well compensated participant in the underachievement.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

To me, the funny thing in the interview is how Walter Payton was his idol and he grew up trying to emulate him. I wonder if he forgot how Payton played on consistently bad teams yet put up huge numbers through all the years. Finally, all his hard work was rewarded with the Super Bowl win and he was a major part of turning the franchise around.

 

[kerouac9]

TJ didnt exactly light it up in Tampa after he was traded. I guess that was the Cardinals fault as well.

Maybe the light went on for him after 4 years, maybe he realized that he was running out of opportunities. Who knows.

Beleive it or not, I have more respect for Simeon Rice. At least he produced while he was here.

I guess I find it a bit bothersome to hear some player bag on a team that isnt a good place to be because it doesnt win when he was an active and well compensated participant in the underachievement.

Umm... have you read the whole thread? TJ set career highs in all categories except TDs when he was a part-time player in Tampa Bay. His YPC average was like a yard and a half more that season. It's not like he was the designated savior in Chicago for no reason when he was brought there as a free agent, and the Bucs were sad to see him go.

But I guess just making stuff up is a powerful rhetorical device.

 

[Duckjake]

Umm... have you read the whole thread? TJ set career highs in all categories except TDs when he was a part-time player in Tampa Bay. His YPC average was like a yard and a half more that season. It's not like he was the designated savior in Chicago for no reason when he was brought there as a free agent, and the Bucs were sad to see him go.

But I guess just making stuff up is a powerful rhetorical device.

So what? If I ran for one yard for Arizona next year that would be a career high.

Chicago has a 50 year culture of running the football. Any idiot can run for them. James Allen and Raymont Harris ran for over a 1000 in Chicago.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What throws a monkey wrench into the whole discussion is guys like Q and Fitz. . . These guys elevate their own play, and pull the team up with them. .

last i saw the team's record this year was 5-11. how much pulling up did they really do?

 

[Pariah]

last i saw the team's record this year was 5-11. how much pulling up did they really do?

Maybe to the tune of 5 games? We'll never know. But, I'd suspect it's quite a bit. What do you think the record would have been with BJ and Charles Lee as starters?

Our passing offense got us the wins we did get, and I think as much as we all think Warner's doing a decent job, we also all know that he's not winning these games on his own--it's the WRs that are getting it done.

 

[football karma]

Umm... have you read the whole thread? TJ set career highs in all categories except TDs when he was a part-time player in Tampa Bay. His YPC average was like a yard and a half more that season. It's not like he was the designated savior in Chicago for no reason when he was brought there as a free agent, and the Bucs were sad to see him go.

But I guess just making stuff up is a powerful rhetorical device.

The guy ran for all of 600 yards or so, and could'nt take the full time job. Tampa made all of a cursory attempt to keep him - and preferred Michael "run over the my-ex" Pittman both during that season and in the offseason.

I stand by my statement that he didnt "light things up" in Tampa.

 

[kerouac9]

The guy ran for all of 600 yards or so, and could'nt take the full time job. Tampa made all of a cursory attempt to keep him - and preferred Michael "run over the my-ex" Pittman both during that season and in the offseason.

I stand by my statement that he didnt "light things up" in Tampa.

Um... he got 364 yards in just the month of December, and had two games over 130 yards rushing. He also scored 3 TDs. Wanna know how many TDs Marcel Shipp scored in 2003? I don't even have to look it up: 0. Wanna know how many rushing TDs Michael Pittman had that season? 0. Wanna know how many TDs Thomas Jones has scored since everybody decided that Marcel Shipp was the long-term answer at the position? 19.

You don't even know what you're talking about here.

 

[Pariah]

. Wanna know how many TDs Marcel Shipp scored in 2003?

What the hell does that have to do with Jones' numbers in TB? Seriously, I'd like to know.

 

[DCCardsFan]

What throws a monkey wrench into the whole discussion is guys like Q and Fitz. Here they are both languishing on a bad team, yet they perform at a level not comprehensible by the average player. I'm never trying to hear what anyone has to say bad about playing for the Cardinals, or any bad team for that matter. These guys elevate their own play, and pull the team up with them. That's what GOOD players do. TJ is soft and a bum, plain and simple. I was happy for his newfound success at first, but not now.

Wide receivers always thrive on bad teams.

I remember when David Boston was putting up big numbers, and there would be numerous threads about how he would get 2000 yards if we didn't have such a terrible QB. Somehow those people overlooked his poor hands and inability to run after the catch. I'm not saying Fitz and Q are anything like DB, but if they played on a better team, their numbers wouldn't be so high.

TJ played hard here, despite apparently not wanting to be here. He gave his body up for the blitz, and played hurt when he could. I honestly think most of what he is saying is hindsight. I don't think he was that unhappy while he was here.

The problem was our interior line was awful (until we got Kendall and Grut, who then couldn't stay healthy), and our defense was even worse. Not exactly a formula for a successful running game.

In the first 5 games of 2002, TJ showed glimpses of what he was capable of. Of course, then he sprained his ankle, 3 offensive linemen got hurt, our top four receivers got hurt, and it all went downhill. Without injuries that year, I honestly believe we would've made the playoffs.

Oh well.

 

[Duckjake]

What I always remember about Jones was how he always saved his best performance for the NY Giants. The guy just reached down and pulled out all the stops whenever he lined up against the G-Men.

In 6 games against the Giants he gutted out 116 yards on 54 carries.

What a player.

 

[kerouac9]

What I always remember about Jones was how he always saved his best performance for the NY Giants. The guy just reached down and pulled out all the stops whenever he lined up against the G-Men.

In 6 games against the Giants he gutted out 116 yards on 54 carries.

What a player.

Well, it's sure easy for a guy to get into a rhythm when he's getting all of 9 carries a game. Thomas Jones has always needed the rock to be successful. His most productive carries in 2005 were on rushes 11-20 (5.6 YPC and 5 TDs). 7 of his 9 rushing TDs came in the second halves of games. That was usually when Arizona fan was booing him and begging Marcel Shipp to come in and rush against some prevent defenses.

Thomas Jones averaged only 9.28 carries per game as an Arizona Cardinal. Maybe that might be part of the reason that he wasn't successful here. In Chicago the last two years, he's averaged over 19 carries a game.

 

[BigRedArk]

Actually, TJ set career highs yards (627), yards per carry average (4.6), and first downs (34) when he went to Tampa, including beating Michael Pittman out of the starting job in the last month of the season. This was after only starting like four or five games. The Bucs were sad to see him go. He didn't get that big contract in Chicago for showing nothing.

Maybe the problem in Arizona wasn't TJ after all. It seems that Thomas got exactly what he wanted. He got out of Arizona a year ahead of his contract, to a competing team, and now is on a winner. Hard to argue with results.

So did Corey Dillon. Dillon too played for one of the perrenial losers in the NFL just like Thomas Jones did...the Cincinatti Bengals. Except Dillon earned his money in Cincinatti unlike Jones in Arizona. He made the best of a bad situation and was a team player there unlike Jones.

 

[CaptTurbo]

TJ set career highs in all categories except TDs when he was a part-time player in Tampa .

ohhhh careeer highs. Well seeing as he took huge paychecks from the cards and refused to play it would seem like career highs were topped after one or two positive runs.