Paul to Lakers

[Dback Jon]

Funny how much the Faker fans whine when the league doesn't bend over for them.

 

[slinslin]

To quote someone from a general NBA board

But the Hornets? They gave up the best player, don't even get back the best player of the other players in the trade, take on an additional $15-20 mil in salary, and everyone they get is mediocre or above average. They get 1 mediocre pick, get older...I mean, its inexplicable. I can't believe there are people trying to say this was a "good haul" for them. It was garbage. Talk about being saved from yourself Dell Demps.

 

[Mulli]

Funny how much the Faker fans whine when the league doesn't bend over for them.

Almost seem like Suns fans.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The only reason people on this forum and elsewhere are supporting Stern on this move is because of their personal animosity towards the Lakers. As usual with overzealous fans they fail to see the big picture. And the big picture is that allowing this simply allows a very bad precedent and opens up a Pandora's box that may cost the Suns one day.

You know once upon a time we had a great team here in Phoenix with great ownership and savvy front office people who consistently constructed great teams that top players in the league wanted to play for. One of those players was Charles Barkley and we were able to land him for a deal that quite frankly was less than the one that New Orleans received for Chris Paul. What would have been our reaction had David Stern and his minority tribe of idiot owners who can't turn profits off a $3 billion business had stopped that for their own selfish reasons? Would we be trumpeting the whole "good for the league" mantra? What is wrong with employees desiring to work in a place with stable ownership and smart bosses? Don't we all want that out of our jobs?

Someday down the road likely after Sarver sells the team we will be a great franchise again. When that day comes and we have the assets to hopefully swing a deal for an all-time elite player that may finally get us our long-awaited championship, I certainly don't want the league to be a place where other owners can collude to shut down that hypothetical trade. Not to compare the Holocaust with this but there's a quote by a Catholic priest that I put my own spin on...

First they came for the Lakers, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Laker.

Then they came for the Knicks, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Knick.

Then they came for the Celtics, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Celtic.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The only reason people on this forum and elsewhere are supporting Stern on this move is because of their personal animosity towards the Lakers. As usual with overzealous fans they fail to see the big picture. And the big picture is that allowing this simply allows a very bad precedent and opens up a Pandora's box that may cost the Suns one day.

You know once upon a time we had a great team here in Phoenix with great ownership and savvy front office people who consistently constructed great teams that top players in the league wanted to play for. One of those players was Charles Barkley and we were able to land him for a deal that quite frankly was less than the one that New Orleans received for Chris Paul. What would have been our reaction had David Stern and his minority tribe of idiot owners who can't turn profits off a $3 billion business had stopped that for their own selfish reasons? Would we be trumpeting the whole "good for the league" mantra? What is wrong with employees desiring to work in a place with stable ownership and smart bosses? Don't we all want that out of our jobs?

Someday down the road likely after Sarver sells the team we will be a great franchise again. When that day comes and we have the assets to hopefully swing a deal for an all-time elite player that may finally get us our long-awaited championship, I certainly don't want the league to be a place where other owners can collude to shut down that hypothetical trade. Not to compare the Holocaust with this but there's a quote by a Catholic priest that I put my own spin on...

First they came for the Lakers, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Laker.

Then they came for the Knicks, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Knick.

Then they came for the Celtics, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Celtic.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

The bad precedent is the league owning a team. If this team had real ownership, none of this would even be a discussion. As long as other owners have an ownership voice in the NO, this will be a problem.

NO needs to be sold or dismantled.

 

[Mainstreet]

This is becoming a Lakers thread.

 

[boisesuns]

I wonder how the hornets fans feel about this one? How do they feel about Paul? When a good player on your team demands to go somewhere else, it's kind of frustrating as a fan. Knowing the guy you want to watch on the team the most doesn't want to be there and would rather "Play for the man" This whole deal makes the NBA look bad, but PAUL is not innocent here.

Nash may not demand a trade ever and part of me respects that about him.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I hate all of this "Super Team" nonsense but even I think it was stupid for the league to stop this deal.

The only reason there are these super teams is because ownership and front offices put great players in terrible positions. You know who is a super team? That would be the Oklahoma City Thunder. At one point so were the San Antonio Spurs. LeBron would not have left Cleveland nor Bosh with Toronto if their front offices had put some players around them. It's not about small market vs big market. It's about talent wanting to be employed by people who actually know they are doing. That's the reality. These ******* owners have nobody to blame but themselves if their players want to leave.

 

[Mulli]

This is becoming a Lakers thread.

So much for Lakers Plan B. Mario Chalmers signed with the Heat. Is Soosh Parker available?

 

[Mulli]

Surprised no one has mentioned that Pao and Odom might not be talking to each other anymore since Mrs. Odom told Pao's girlfriend Pao was cheating on her.

Paging the Donald

 

[Covert Rain]

The only reason people on this forum and elsewhere are supporting Stern on this move is because of their personal animosity towards the Lakers. As usual with overzealous fans they fail to see the big picture. And the big picture is that allowing this simply allows a very bad precedent and opens up a Pandora's box that may cost the Suns one day.

Many people don't want to see anymore Super teams. That is the big picture. Super teams don't help the league. The bigger issue in my mind is that a team that is owned by the league makes a trade that upsets the competative balance which clearly is a case of conflicting interests. Everyone konws the NBA wants the big markets to win titles. It's always been that way.

Also, don't see how that hurts the Suns. The Suns are never going to try and field a Super team. In fact this helps the league. If this ensures that most teams have a shot if they trade for an All-star or sign one but never get a shot at creating another Miami. That helps the Suns and every other franchise not named LA or NY or any other big market. It creates a league where if you make one big signing you have the opportunity at a title some day.

That is the big picture.

You know once upon a time we had a great team here in Phoenix with great ownership and savvy front office people who consistently constructed great teams that top players in the league wanted to play for. One of those players was Charles Barkley and we were able to land him for a deal that quite frankly was less than the one that New Orleans received for Chris Paul. What would have been our reaction had David Stern and his minority tribe of idiot owners who can't turn profits off a $3 billion business had stopped that for their own selfish reasons? Would we be trumpeting the whole "good for the league" mantra? What is wrong with employees desiring to work in a place with stable ownership and smart bosses? Don't we all want that out of our jobs?

Huge difference. CB was not dicatating a trade to one franchise. He just wanted out. The Suns put together the best offer out of the division. The market dictated what his worth was. In this case if there are better offers on the table and yet the league allows a trade to go through that upsets the competative blance of the entire league, they are not doing their job. In this case it's not the market dictating his worth because the Player refuses to go to any other team or because the league wants a certain player to end up in a certain market. Also, if your going to compare the real workplace...companies make decisions all the time on best fits for their employees. If any corporation in America had all their best employees in a single division of the company, it wouldn't be good for that business either.

 

[D-Dogg]

Surprised no one has mentioned that Pao and Odom might not be talking to each other anymore since Mrs. Odom told Pao's girlfriend Pao was cheating on her.

Paging the Donald

Didn't hear that one.

 

[Mulli]

Didn't hear that one.

What?!? You need to ask Abomb.

 

[Proteus]

I know this is off topic but are the Lakers gonna still run the triangle this season?

 

[Mulli]

I know this is off topic but are the Lakers gonna still run the triangle this season?

Not running it. Will run the Lebron dominating the ball offense Mike Brown runs with Kobe dominating the ball.

 

[D-Dogg]

The Lakers signing CP3 and shipping Odom and Pau does not make them a "Super Team." Sorry.

If they then got D12, yes, you could say that. However it is not a guarantee they get him. CP3 for Odom/Pau actually makes them weaker.

Basing your support for nixing a trade because of future actions they MIGHT take (a la Dan Gilbert's email) is ridiculous. It's like thought crime in Minority Report.

There are no legitimate basketball reasons this trade was nixed. Each party won and lost some. IF the Lakers were able to get D12 after the trade, then they would be huge winners, but that would have no bearing on THIS trade, where they actually come out a bit worse off.

Basketball people are being handcuffed by Stern in this one, in many ways. That is definitely bad for the league.

 

[D-Dogg]

I know this is off topic but are the Lakers gonna still run the triangle this season?

No. Which is why having a PG is necessary. Fish isn't a PG. He's a triangle point, which doesn't exist outside of the triangle offense.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Lakers signing CP3 and shipping Odom and Pau does not make them a "Super Team." Sorry.

If they then got D12, yes, you could say that. However it is not a guarantee they get him. CP3 for Odom/Pau actually makes them weaker.

If the Lakers had gotten their hands on CP3, you know as well as I do how much more attractive the team becomes for Howard. You know as well as I do the Lakers were not doing this trade with the idea of stopping here.

Your kidding yourself if you think the Lakers were not determined to form another Super team. In fact, all the insider information says that is EXACTLY what they were trying to do.

Basing your support for nixing a trade because of future actions they MIGHT take (a la Dan Gilbert's email) is ridiculous. It's like thought crime in Minority Report.

There are no legitimate basketball reasons this trade was nixed. Each party won and lost some. IF the Lakers were able to get D12 after the trade, then they would be huge winners, but that would have no bearing on THIS trade, where they actually come out a bit worse off.

Basketball people are being handcuffed by Stern in this one, in many ways. That is definitely bad for the league.

Legitmate basketballs reasons include maintaing competative balance in the league and sending a message to teams that super teams are a thing of the past.

Don't get me wrong...I get your point about "might" but again the Lakers were going to form a Super team. You know it even if your not willing to admit it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Many people don't want to see anymore Super teams. That is the big picture. Super teams don't help the league. The bigger issue in my mind is that a team that is owned by the league makes a trade that upsets the competative balance which clearly is a case of conflicting interests. Everyone konws the NBA wants the big markets to win titles. It's always been that way.

Also, don't see how that hurts the Suns. The Suns are never going to try and field a Super team. In fact this helps the league. If this ensures that most teams have a shot if they trade for an All-star or sign one but never get a shot at creating another Miami. That helps the Suns and every other franchise not named LA or NY or any other big market. It creates a league where if you make one big signing you have the opportunity at a title some day.

That is the big picture.

Yeah, I'm sure the Suns would no interest in fielding a super team. That's ridiculous. We have tried to do such in the past and actually had a shot to do it when we had quality ownership. We tried to land Kobe in 2007 when he wanted out of LA and he was willing to play here. We made a run at Olajuwon in the early 90's. We successfully landed Barkley and did not give up KJ or Majerle. Problem is that building a super team requires great players to want to play here and that stopped around the time Sarver bought the team and alienated pretty much everybody with the organization.

Huge difference. CB was not dicatating a trade to one franchise. He just wanted out. The Suns put together the best offer out of the division. The market dictated what his worth was. In this case if there are better offers on the table and yet the league allows a trade to go through that upsets the competative blance of the entire league, they are not doing their job. In this case it's not the market dictating his worth because the Player refuses to go to any other team or because the league wants a certain player to end up in a certain market. Also, if your going to compare the real workplace...companies make decisions all the time on best fits for their employees. If any corporation in America had all their best employees in a single division of the company, it wouldn't be good for that business either.

CP3 wasn't dictating where he went either. I'm sure there are ten teams he'd accept a trade to assuming they would extend him and they had the parts around him that allow him to be successful. It's the exact same situation as Barkley. And the NBA is 30 different competing corporations that are tied together in a weird way nut with a common goal, it is a much different than the scenario you suggest.

 

[D-Dogg]

If the Lakers had gotten their hands on CP3, you know as well as I do how much more attractive the team becomes for Howard. You know as well as I do the Lakers were not doing this trade with the idea of stopping here.

Your kidding yourself if you think the Lakers were not determined to form another Super team. In fact, all the insider information says that is EXACTLY what they were trying to do.



Legitmate basketballs reasons include maintaing competative balance in the league and sending a message to teams that super teams are a thing of the past.

Don't get me wrong...I get your point about "might" but again the Lakers were going to form a Super team. You know it even if your not willing to admit it.

Of course they would want to do that. They'd be stupid NOT to. But they also severely handcuffed themselves in the attempt to do so by moving both Odom and Pau for CP3. DH is the harder deal to make.

If the league had problems with a Super Team, then they could put their foot down on a DH trade if and when it took place. Putting their foot down "in case" it would happen is just terrible management.

 

[crisper57]

So that summer of 2012 is looking like a bust. Those who sit back and wait in this business will be passed-up by more proactive teams.

 

[Mulli]

So that summer of 2012 is looking like a bust. Those who sit back and wait in this business will be passed-up by more proactive teams.

Unless Stern holds back the pro-active teams...

 

[D-Dogg]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7334835/the-sixth-day-nba-christmas

Notorious Laker Hater Bill Simmons also thinks this is silly. Entire article is fantastic - this is only a small chunk. Simmons is going off.

Stern reached that point last night. I think he caved because of the whining owners, but also out of exasperation: because yet another superstar was trying to push his way to another big city, because he's in charge, because THIS IS DAVID STERN'S LEAGUE. It's like the old Will Ferrell/Dodge Stratus SNL sketch:

You don't talk to me like that! I'm David Stern! I make the rules here! You don't get to pick your team, I do! I'm the commissioner of the NBA! I DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!!!!!

Fact: That trade was totally, undeniably, 100 percent defensible.

Fact: Of the three teams involved, New Orleans made out the best. Repeat: the best. By my calculations, it landed one of the better offensive big men in basketball (Luis Scola), one of the better scoring 2-guards in basketball (Kevin Martin), a playoff-proven forward who can play either spot (Lamar Odom), a scoring point guard with upside (Goran Dragic), and a 2012 no. 1 pick (via the New York Knicks). Can you do better for someone who was leaving in seven months anyway? I hate trading superstars, but if you HAVE to trade a superstar? That's pretty good.

Meanwhile, the Rockets spent the past three years stashing enough pieces to make that trade: Acquiring the second-best center in basketball (Gasol) while leaving enough cap room to sign a marquee free agent (and yes, they were closing in on Nene). And the Lakers paid the steepest price: giving up their best low-post guy and all of their frontcourt depth, giving Andrew Bynum an immense amount of responsibility (you know, the same guy who stormed off the court half-naked during the playoff sweep last spring) and reinventing their team around Paul's aching knee and Kobe's aching knees. It would have been a brilliant move had it worked and a legendary disaster had it failed — especially if Kobe rebelled against sharing the ball with Paul — only now we'll never know.

Once word leaked of the deal, rival owners started rebelling almost immediately. What was the point of that lockout, and all the talk of competitive balance, if the Lakers were allowed to immediately acquire Chris Paul? Dan Gilbert sent a scathing e-mail to a few of the other owners that, of course, was leaked on the Internet last night.

The best part of the letter: "This trade should go to a vote of the 29 owners of the Hornets."

(Translation: "Let's cut Demps' balls off, throw the last few weeks of negotiating out the window and go back on our word. Also, I'm thinking of starting a support group for small-market owners who overpaid for their teams, don't have the balls to sell and would rather whine, bitch and bully about their lot in NBA life. I'm going to call it O.A.: Overpayers Anonymous.")

The second-best part of the letter: "I just don't see how we can allow this trade to happen. I know the vast majority of owners feel the same way that I do. When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?"

(Translation: Boooooooo hooooooo.)

There it was, in all its Comic Sans MS glory, that whopping conflict of interest that had been staring at everyone for 12 solid months. How can a league own one of its own franchises? What happens if it has to, you know, make important trades and stuff? The league always knew that, at some point, the Hornets might have to trade Chris Paul. They claimed they had a plan in place. And they did. Until O.A. started bitching with even more fervor than usual. That's when Stern's eroding power finally sank him. Instead of backing a decision he had already made, Stern choked like Nick Anderson. The unthinkable happened.

He blocked the trade.

Wait, what?

Was it the worst moment of David Stern's entire tenure? I never thought anything would top an official fixing games, but man … how can anything be worse than this? Imagine this happened in your fantasy league. Imagine spending weeks shaping a deal, executing it, then having your commissioner waltz in and say, "Nah, I'm vetoing that one." Would that ever happen? And now this is happening in a PROFESSIONAL SPORTS LEAGUE?

Just know that I'm a die-hard Celtics fan and die-hard Lakers hater … and even I am appalled. I hope Chris Paul sues. I hope the Rockets sue. I hope the Lakers sue. I hope Dell Demps resigns and makes a sex tape with a stripper wearing a David Stern Halloween mask. Whatever happens, the season has been irrevocably tainted — we just watched FIVE teams have their seasons screwed up by this debacle. Houston's three-year plan just went up in smoke; now the Rockets have to make up with their two best players. (Good luck with that.) The Lakers need to determine if their relationship with the notoriously sensitive Gasol and the even more notoriously sensitive Odom is salvageable; and if it's not, what then? The Hornets are just plain screwed. It's a basketball catastrophe for them. As for the Celtics, Pinocchio Ainge's ill-fated pursuit of Paul ruined the team's relationship with Rajon Rondo, only its best young player. Even the Knicks got screwed — supposedly they closed the deal with Tyson Chandler yesterday, never expecting Paul to become available this summer (and now they can't chase him).

The total tally: Five teams were screwed by one cowardly decision.

Here's what saddens me: We should have remembered December 8, 2011, as one of the best random basketball days in years. It was like climbing on a Twitter/e-mail/phone call/texting roller coaster from the moment I woke up. First, Boston was in the lead for Paul as Golden State and the Clippers were falling out. Then, Boston fading as the Knicks were gaining steam. Around lunchtime, I called a Knicks buddy who was gleefully planning a future with Chandler, Carmelo and Paul, with poor Amar'e headed to New Orleans, Orlando, Houston … who the hell knew? And then, boom! That went up in smoke. The Lakers came roaring back, word of a three-teamer spread … and my Knicks buddy went from euphoric to despondent in less than three hours. My Laker fan buddies were crowing, my Boston peeps were freaking out, my dad was practically having a heart attack about the Kobe/Howard/Paul possibilities, Twitter was blowing up … I mean, could that have been a more fun day to be a basketball fan?

The best point guard of his generation was switching teams, in his prime, to the Los Angeles Lakers … and only after the Celtics and Knicks failed to get him. Read that sentence again. It's what Dan Gilbert and the other Overpayers Anonymous owners will never understand. In professional basketball, history trumps everything else. It's not just about playing in Los Angeles. It's about playing for the ****ing Lakers. It's about following the footsteps of Magic, Kareem, Wilt, West, Baylor and Shaq. It's about Showtime, Nicholson, the yellow jerseys, the Laker Girls, even that awful Randy Newman song. It's about that buzz before a big Laker home game, when the place is packed with celebs and eye candy, when you're the best guy on the team, when you might as well be the king of the world. When these idiots complain about a "big market/small market" disparity, it's almost like they never followed the league before they bought their teams. Of course there's a disparity! What kid doesn't grow up wanting to play for the Celtics, Lakers or Knicks?

 

[slinslin]

The Lakers were not going to get Howard after this.

They were going to sign and trade for David West from what I heard..

 

[slinslin]

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