Philadelphia 76ers @ Phoenix Suns 1-2-15

[Errntknght]

I'm pretty they meant Aaron Nelson, the head trainer for the Suns

 

[BC867]

None of this is remotely true.

How so?

This is the by-product of a team pitting 3 lead Point Guards against each other for being in charge of the offense and continuity on the court.

Are the Suns not pitting our 3 lead Point Guards against each other for the lead-lead position? Is it not affecting them not giving up the ball enough, especially to help Len's development?

Goran Dragic seems to try to make it work, but he has been demoted to 3rd Point Guard and hardly sets the tone.

Has Goran not gone from Point Guard to 3rd option behind Bledsoe and Thomas? And now been further displaced by finishing games at Forward?

Saying that none of this is remotely true hardly addresses the problem referred to in FutureSuperstar's post, to which I responded.

 

[FutureSuperstar]

Saying that none of this is remotely true hardly addresses the problem referred to in FutureSuperstar's post, to which I responded.

I actually don't think it's really a "problem" - At least it's not a problem that can't be fixed. Len got solid opportunities to score during the winning streak: His FGA / minutes for the games were: 6 / 19 , 6 / 21 , 3 / 24 , 9/28 , 9 / 23 , 6 / 25 ... Basically he shot an average of 6.5 times in about 22 mpg

In the last 3 games, he's shot a TOTAL of 5 shots (OKC game - he only shot once, even though it says twice ... Dragic FG miss was given to Len) in 57 minutes ! ...

What changed from the W.S. to the last 3 games? I don't think it's Len - I've seen him present himself near the hoop ... It's simply for some reason the last 3 games, the guards have been just a bit more selfish ...

That must change. And it can, as proven by the winning streak in which Len did provide some scoring. I just hope that this issue is being addressed by the coaching staff and not being overlooked.

 

[Chaz]

How so?

Are the Suns not pitting our 3 lead Point Guards against each other for the lead-lead position? Is it not affecting them not giving up the ball enough, especially to help Len's development?

No on both.

Has Goran not gone from Point Guard to 3rd option behind Bledsoe and Thomas? And now been further displaced by finishing games at Forward?

No he hasn't and he isn't.

 

[SirStefan32]

No he hasn't and he isn't.

I don't know what games and team you are watching, but it's not Phoenix Suns games.

I wonder if someone out there is keeping track of "touches" in NBA games.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Former UA star Aaron Gordon? Isn't he like 19?

I'm pretty they meant Aaron Nelson, the head trainer for the Suns

Yeah, wrong Aaron on my part. Aaron Nelson is his In-Law.

Steve

 

[Chaz]

I don't know what games and team you are watching, but it's not Phoenix Suns games.

I wonder if someone out there is keeping track of "touches" in NBA games.

Yes, that must be it. I am watching the wrong team and I just don't know it.

Talk about tunnel vision.

 

[BC867]

"None of this is remotely true."

"No on both."

"No he hasn't and he isn't."

Your posts remind me of the old joke, "Don't confuse me with the facts. My mind is already made up."

OK. You're entitled.

The sad part is that Jeff Hornacek has bought into it as well. And that has a far greater effect on the Suns and its fan base than what any of us post on ASFN.

 

[Chaz]

Your posts remind me of the old joke, "Don't confuse me with the facts. My mind is already made up."

OK. You're entitled.

The sad part is that Jeff Hornacek has bought into it as well. And that has a far greater effect on the Suns and its fan base than what any of us post on ASFN.

Pot meet kettle.

You are so convinced that there is some great rift on the team it colors every comment.

Why worry about facts when you can just invent your own?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Your posts remind me of the old joke, "Don't confuse me with the facts. My mind is already made up."



OK. You're entitled.



The sad part is that Jeff Hornacek has bought into it as well. And that has a far greater effect on the Suns and its fan base than what any of us post on ASFN.

BC. You are writing about yourself. Goran is getting 33 mpg. IT is getting 24. It's really hard to have a meaningful conversation. With a person whose take on reality is so shaky. To say that Goran is the third option behind IT is deluded.

Btw. In a three guard offensive set you have three guards, not a guard playing forward. There is no rule that says you have to have two forwards a center and two guards. Teams have been playing three guard sets ( at times) as long as there has been basketball. There are whole offenses built around three guards and two big men. While I am not advocating the Suns go to this as their main offensive set, it's silly to say that Goran is playing forward. Often it's Bledsoe guarding the other team's sf anywAy.

It's like a broken record.

 

[BC867]

Goran is getting 33 mpg. IT is getting 24 ... To say that Goran is the third option behind IT is deluded.

When either Bledsoe or Thomas are on the floor with Dragic, Goran is the Shooting Guard.

It would be interesting to see how few minutes per game Dragic and Green average as the two Guards on the floor (without the other two primary Point Guards).

Btw. In a three guard offensive set you have three guards, not a guard playing forward. There is no rule that says you have to have two forwards a center and two guards. Teams have been playing three guard sets ( at times) as long as there has been basketball. There are whole offenses built around three guards and two big men. While I am not advocating the Suns go to this as their main offensive set, it's silly to say that Goran is playing forward. Often it's Bledsoe guarding the other team's sf anywAy.

I notice you said three guard offensive set, rather than three point guard offensive set. There is a difference.

Have other teams been playing three Point Guard sets just about every 4th quarter as their main offensive set with the game on the line? The Suns are past the point of 'at times'. It has become their identity. That is my gripe.

 

[SirStefan32]

When either Bledsoe or Thomas are on the floor with Dragic, Goran is the Shooting Guard.

It would be interesting to see how few minutes per game Dragic and Green average as the two Guards on the floor (without the other two primary Point Guards).


I notice you said three guard offensive set, rather than three point guard offensive set. There is a difference.

Have other teams been playing three Point Guard sets just about every 4th quarter as their main offensive set with the game on the line? The Suns are past the point of 'at times'. It has become their identity. That is my gripe.

I am with you, BC. Especially with IT (or Bledsoe and IT), Dragic is reduced to the PJ Tucker role ("Stand in the corner and hope someone will pass the ball to you.")

I actually think there IS a way to play two PGs, or even three, but they need to be actual point guards and play like actual point guards. Suns play isolation, which defeats the purpose of having multiple point guards.

 

[Chaz]

I am with you, BC. Especially with IT (or Bledsoe and IT), Dragic is reduced to the PJ Tucker role ("Stand in the corner and hope someone will pass the ball to you.")

I actually think there IS a way to play two PGs, or even three, but they need to be actual point guards and play like actual point guards. Suns play isolation, which defeats the purpose of having multiple point guards.

Then your problem is with the offense or how players are being utilized or even maybe with how well the players are executing the offense. Quit hiding behind nonsense like Dragic is playing forward or making up crap about conflicts that don't exist.

The Suns are not a particularly good team right now. They are inexperienced and need more depth in the front court. However, We are less than 2 seasons removed from a complete disaster. They are still over .500 despite some horrible home losses against bad teams and some tough losses against quality competition.
I don't understand the outrage and constant harping but I guess that is what a message board is for these days.
They aren't great but they aren't that bad either. Despite the poor effort to start this game they are improving. Looking forward to the matchup with the best in the east today.

On a personal note to you and BC sorry for being a little snippy yesterday I was not in good mood yesterday afternoon.

 

[SirStefan32]

Then your problem is with the offense or how players are being utilized or even maybe with how well the players are executing the offense. Quit hiding behind nonsense like Dragic is playing forward or making up crap about conflicts that don't exist.

It's not easy to pinpoint exactly what the problem is. The best I've been able to articulate it is that the Suns acquired wrong players for what the are trying to do. Couple of us said this would happen when the Suns traded for Bledsoe, and it's only gotten worse since signing IT. I am having a really hard time blaming Bledsoe and IT- they are what they are- undersized shooting guards who are not particularly good shooters. To me, blaming those two is like blaming dogs for barking or a cat for meowing- that's what the are, that's what they do. McD/Babby/Hornacek are to blame because they acquired players who are just not a good fit together. All three of them are basically the same player (Yes, Bledsoe is the best defender,IT is probably the best pure scorer and shooter, and Dragic is probably the best playmaker/ distributor, but they are very similar.)

To me, saying some players are not happy and saying Dragic plays forward is not nonsense. If you watch the games, at times Dragic is reduced to playing PJ's role- standing in the corner while one of the other two PGs plays iso ball.
To me, it's nonsense to think he is NOT unhappy.

The Suns are not a particularly good team right now. They are inexperienced and need more depth in the front court. However, We are less than 2 seasons removed from a complete disaster. They are still over .500 despite some horrible home losses against bad teams and some tough losses against quality competition.
I don't understand the outrage and constant harping but I guess that is what a message board is for these days.
They aren't great but they aren't that bad either. Despite the poor effort to start this game they are improving. Looking forward to the matchup with the best in the east today.

That's the point people like BC, Eric, I, and a few others are saying (and have been saying since two summers ago)- we are not a very good team, and we are not balanced. Let's build this team the right way. You can not have your three best players playing the same position and trying to make them into something they are not.

On a personal note to you and BC sorry for being a little snippy yesterday I was not in good mood yesterday afternoon.

In more than a dozen years we've been posting here, I am sure everyone has been snippy a time or two. You are an awesome poster, and a valued and respected member of this community. One or two snippy comments are not a problem at all. I am sure BC agrees.

 

[BC867]

Thanks Chas. I certainly agree that how our day is going could affect our posts (he said from experience ).

The Suns got our hopes up in Hornacek's first season as Head Coach.

Once that happens, not moving forward the next season is indeed a disappointment. And that summarizes why we are disappointed.

Stefan, your analysis of why the Suns are in a roster dilemma is excellent.