Phoenix, Seattle Closing in on Deal?

[Cheesebeef]

I'd prefer the line-up cheese posted and while he wouln't start I think Diaw would be at or near the top in mpg. Howerever I'm fairly certain D'Antoni will start:

5 Amare
4 Diaw
3 Lewis

I'm not sure if he still feels that way but I recall during the season that he feels Diaw is a natural 4.

wow - even if he went that way - could you imagine the matchup nightmares teams would have with those three guys as our starting front court? All can post up, all can create their own shot and Lewis is a dead eye shooter and I suspect Boris will be next year as well.

That teams' size alone makes it better defensively than what we were trotting out in the playoffs considering how everyone Marion was put on went off on him. Hell, they can do the same to Boris or Lewis and it wouldn't matter, just a replacable body on defense.

 

[Covert Rain]

wow - even if he went that way - could you imagine the matchup nightmares teams would have with those three guys as our starting front court? All can post up, all can create their own shot and Lewis is a dead eye shooter and I suspect Boris will be next year as well.

That teams' size alone makes it better defensively than what we were trotting out in the playoffs considering how everyone Marion was put on went off on him. Hell, they can do the same to Boris or Lewis and it wouldn't matter, just a replacable body on defense.

Offensively yes. Defensively you would be weaker withouth Kurt in the starting lineup. If this team makes this trade, Kurt has to start to be better defensively. Offense has not been a problem.

 

[Cheesebeef]

First off Shawn Marion was defending out of position most of the season. Considering he wasn't even covering the person he was suppose to for most of the season says alot.

This teams lack of defense came from the fact they had to double team every other player. Meaning leaving your guy. So if he defends nothing but small forwards, you have Kurt clogging up the middle and Amare helping from the weak, this is a different team.

"Considering he wasn't even covering the person he was suppose to for most of the season says alot." No it doesn't. If he played like Ben Wallace, you know - an undersized guy going up against bohemoths and had a defensive impact it would say alot, but he didn't. He got abused like anyone playing out of position, so what? As far as your second thought, Marion gets abused by small forwards as well. The Lakers SF is Odom, that's his position when they're healthy. He dominates Shawn. The Mavs SF is Howard - he uses Shawn, don't even get me started on how useless Shawn is against the Spurs...

 

[Mainstreet]

Lewis is going to be looking for max money, dont any of you remember the BS he put seattle through last year about his contract....i think i remember something about him saying he thinks hes better than ray allen and deserves that kind of money..

besides the plan isnt to resign lewis, i can almost gaurantee that..its to get boris and TT locked up...there would be no $$ for him anyways...

Wouldn't signing Lewis to a max contract next summer pospone paying the larger salary per year as compared to what the Suns are paying for Marion per year right now?

I think it will give temporary money to sign TT to a short term contract but it may mean saying goodbye to LB.

Extending Diaw is a must.

I view this matter as almost juggling, however, I'm not a very good juggler.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Offensively yes. Defensively you would be weaker withouth Kurt in the starting lineup. If this team makes this trade, Kurt has to start to be better defensively. Offense has not been a problem.

ummm, did you see the Dallas series? Did you see the last five games of the Dallas series when we scored 93, 88, 101, 106, 98 ? That's an average of 97 points per game, 10 lower than our average in the regular season. It;'s also right around the time Marion went into Tortilla phase. That can't happen again and it wouldn't with Lewis.

 

[Folster]

Seems to me that Lewis and TT are virtually the same player. If we were to trade for Shard, what's the point in signing TT?

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Covert Rain]

"Considering he wasn't even covering the person he was suppose to for most of the season says alot." No it doesn't. If he played like Ben Wallace, you know - an undersized guy going up against bohemoths and had a defensive impact it would say alot, but he didn't. He got abused like anyone playing out of position, so what? As far as your second thought, Marion gets abused by small forwards as well. The Lakers SF is Odom, that's his position when they're healthy. He dominates Shawn. The Mavs SF is Howard - he uses Shawn, don't even get me started on how useless Shawn is against the Spurs...

Again, this team almost never plays one on one defense. They double constantly. They leave their man and constantly rotate. So that matters. Also, Marion can still cover probably 90% of the small forwards with no problems. Looks at his defensive stats. They don't lie.

Also, Odom for the most part played Power Foward in the playoffs because Brown was on the bench. Marion took turns covering both Brown and Odom. Again, if this team had better defense he could have played one on one defense. He doesn't get to that often.

PS. Lewis will be a liability on defense. Just wait and see. Like the above person stated, he is Tim Thomas in a smaller body.

 

[sunsfn]

I think the suns would start,

Amare
Thomas
Marion/Lewis

Diaw off the bench.

My reasons are that we have a defensive presense to start the game, Diaw will come in and relieve Amare, Marion/Lewis, & Thomas and be in the game to play point forward when Nash sets down for a rest.

I think Amare changes the way Diaw plays, and Diaw gives us more offense while Amare is on the bench.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think the suns would start,

Amare
Thomas
Marion/Lewis

Diaw off the bench.

My reasons are that we have a defensive presense to start the game, Diaw will come in and relieve Amare, Marion/Lewis, & Thomas and be in the game to play point forward when Nash sets down for a rest.

I think Amare changes the way Diaw plays, and Diaw gives us more offense while Amare is on the bench.

I agree. Don't forget Diaw can come in for any of those positions. So he will get his minutes no matter what.

 

[joshstmarie]

I agree. Don't forget Diaw can come in for any of those positions. So he will get his minutes no matter what.

i disagree, dantoni has always said he wants his best 5 out on the floor as much as possible.

 

[Covert Rain]

i disagree, dantoni has always said he wants his best 5 out on the floor as much as possible.

OK, I don't recall he ever said he wants his best 5 offensive players. His best defensive 5 does not include Diaw. Kurt is better defensively then Diaw.

 

[sunsfn]

i disagree, dantoni has always said he wants his best 5 out on the floor as much as possible.

Right, Kurt Thomas is a better center than Diaw.

Maybe not a better player next year, but for sure a better center.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Again, this team almost never plays one on one defense. They double constantly. They leave their man and constantly rotate. So that matters. Also, Marion can still cover probably 90% of the small forwards with no problems. Looks at his defensive stats. They don't lie.

PS. Lewis will be a liability on defense. Just wait and see. Like the above person stated, he is Tim Thomas in a smaller body.

You mean the defensive stats like first, second or third team All-Defense? Those stats don't lie. And who cares about 90% of the league - which is a groos overstatement considering we've seen Bron, Melo, Josh Howard, Rashard Lewis, Richard Jefferson, Tayshaun Prince, Lamar Odom, Ron Artest all abuse - that right there is 8 of 32 teams, so that's 25% of the league's SF who Marion can't cover. And as far as the rest, well, 90% of the league ain't in the last two rounds of the playoffs where Marion sucks so who gives a crap. We cna find someone else to get tooled on as much as Marion does - don't worry, that won't be a problem.

 

[joshstmarie]

OK, I don't recall he ever said he wants his best 5 offensive players. His best defensive 5 does not include Diaw. Kurt is better defensively then Diaw.

dantoni also said our best defense is our offense

 

[Covert Rain]

You mean the defensive stats like first, second or third team All-Defense? Those stats don't lie. And who cares about 90% of the league - which is a groos overstatement considering we've seen Bron, Melo, Josh Howard, Rashard Lewis, Richard Jefferson, Tayshaun Prince, Lamar Odom, Ron Artest all abuse - that right there is 8 of 32 teams, so that's 25% of the league's SF who Marion can't cover. And as far as the rest, well, 90% of the league ain't in the last two rounds of the playoffs where Marion sucks so who gives a crap. We cna find someone else to get tooled on as much as Marion does - don't worry, that won't be a problem.

Yes look at where he ranks comparible to others at position. Again stats don't lie. lol. Your right, we can find another player to get 20 and 10 each night and play defense.

 

[Covert Rain]

dantoni also said our best defense is our offense

Yeah and that got us the title. Dantoni also said they need more rebounding and defense next year. You don't get that with Diaw.

 

[joshstmarie]

Yeah and that got us the title.

what did you expect without amare?

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah and that got us the title.

what did you expect without amare? regardless

Agree but they also thought it would take Amare, Marion and Kurt... TOGETHER.

 

[panfolk]

If the Suns were in it for rewards and ego then Boris would come off the bench to garner the 6th man award and assuage KT's starter ego. I don't think these are the reasons KT will start, but I do think he will start for defense and perhaps other reasons.

I personally would like:
1. Draft Brewer as your future combo guard and BPA and trade the 21st pick unless Sene drops down.
2. Draft Sene with the 10 and get a true point guard with the 21.
3. Draft Sefolosha with the 10 and get a true point guard with the 21 and wait til the Atlanta pick to draft a big.

 

[Folster]

I'm not that big on Lewis. I think I would prefer a Chicago package that included Nocioni/Deng, Duhon and the #2. Although, if Ridnour was included you might be able to sell me on it. If the this deal goes through as is, then the Suns must be really high on someone around the 10 spot. I wonder?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes look at where he ranks comparible to others at position. Again stats don't lie. lol. Your right, we can find another player to get 20 and 10 each night and play defense.

Finally you get it! You're right, we can get another player who can get 20 points (Lewis), with Amare and Kurt making up the difference in rebounds and defense. As far as Marion being able to play defense, that nothing more than a fallacy created by this board and nothing more.

 

[cly2tw]

Marion + #27 for Lewis + #10 +fillers would be another win-win trade going down.

Lewis can play PF in our system. Amare/Lewis/Diaw is a front court with everybody can defend any frontcourt position. Offensively, it'd be a nightmare for the rest of the league with Nash at the PG. Offensively, Lewis is better than TT and Marion combined, thus actually making signing TT less of a priority.

I'm simply ecstatic hearing thie rumor.

I think we'd pick Carney with the #10. If LB be involved, it'd be for Petro and we'd not sign TT but getting an experienced backup PG using the MLE. With #21, we probably will go with best talent available, be it Sene, Lowry or whoever.

Besides, I'm not worried about Lewis getting paid max after the reason. First, it's still 3-4 mil per year lower than Marion's. Second, he'd be sharing with Diaw as the 3rd/4th most important player on this team. Third, we are contenders yeah dynasty for as long as this front court is together. It'd be stupid to go to a lottery team just for 12mil instead of 10 mil starting salary. So, with success, i.e. the title next season, he might not want to exercise his option out.

 

[panfolk]

Anyone think they could package the 10 and 21 to get Aldridge? Would it be worth it? We can probably assume Petro is not coming over in the deal.

 

[PhxGametime]

Amare Stoudemire F/C
Boris Diaw F/C
Rashard Lewis F
Raja Bell SG
Steve Nash PG

Tim Thomas F/C
Kurt Thomas F/C
James Jones F
#10*
#21*
etc.


*#10 [Rodney Cardney G/F] [Ronnie Brewer G/F] [Marcus Williams PG] [Randy Foye G]
*#21 [Hilton Armstrong C] [Saer Sene C] [Cerdic Simmons PF] [Rajon Rondo PG] [Jordan Farmar PG] [Kyle Lowry PG] [Thabo Sefolosha G/F] [Shannon Brown G] [Alexander Johnson PF] [Shawne Williams G/F] [Sergio Rodriguez PG] [James White G/F] [Guillermo Diaz G] [Quincy Douby G] [Daniel Gibson PG] [Mardy Collins G] [Darius Washington PG] [Hassan Adams G/F]


lol Obviously it all depends on who's picked at #10. Rodney Carney then you're going to need a PG to replace Barbosa; Ronnie Brewer who I really like but he's not the greatest of 3PT shooters, then you can gamble on a highly rated combo guard or even an Armstrong, Simmons, or Sene; Marcus Williams then you can get yourself an F/C or even a wing; Randy Foye then similar to Marcus Williams'...


I'd take it the Suns would buyout Fortson or do to him what the Bulls did to Tim Thomas lol

 

[Evil Ash]

Finally you get it! You're right, we can get another player who can get 20 points (Lewis), with Amare and Kurt making up the difference in rebounds and defense.

You seem to forget that for a big man Amare is a below average rebounder. With his size and freak athletic abilities, he should get 10 rebounds a game on accident.

Losing Marion hurts no matter how much you want to spin it. He was the 3rd best rebounder IN THE LEAGUE. Just hoping that a maybe healthy Amare and Kurt will make up for that fact is begging for disaster

However I do have to admit that this deal is rather intriguing. Lewis is a good player and whomever the 10th pick would be could help us out a great deal. Wonder if they have someone in mind (if its Redick I'm going on a killing spree)

Here's the ultimate question though: How reliable is Draft Express when it comes to trade rumors coming true? If they have a bad history then this whole debate would more then likely be moot.

As far as Marion being able to play defense, that nothing more than a fallacy created by this board and nothing more.

He was one of the better defenders on our team. I don't know about the league (he was fairly high up there in stats like steals, I know that for certain) but losing him does hurt.

I know people are getting reactionary with their Marion comments but keep in mind he was one of the key reasons we went on that run this year. He was just about the only player that went after boards.