Phoenix, Seattle Closing in on Deal?

[sunsfn]

On another note: who out there thinks Marion, 27, and Barbosa for Lewis, Brewer, and a freshly waived Fortson makes sense?
quote]

If the suns trade for Fortson I would think there will be a 3 team trade.

If they make this trade, it has a lot to do with money, can you see Sarver releasing Fortson and paying him 6.9 mil.........! I do not think so.

 

[NastyOne]

you still didn't answer my question on the bet. Not confident enough to put your money where your mouth is?

No i just think thats childish and i also don't personally know you.

Betting on a message board...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Being a Duke fan, i have to say that... I have no way to objectively think about my favorite player on my favorite team

There you go - that's how you should have finished that sentence. Didn't read that at first before responding to you, but now you're pimping of Redick makes complete homeristic sense.

That being said, he's gonna be nothing more than a role player at best and more than likely a bust. Take him with 21 or 27 - fine? Make the Casey Jacobsen mistake, take him at 10 and you're smoking crack.

 

[panfolk]

Sunsfn: If it's the only way to get the deal done and it saves them money in the long haul, sure I can see it. I wouldn't like it, but I could see it. I didn't like trading out of the last couple drafts either. As a fan I want to see interesting players not $$$$.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Maybe if you watched the ACC tourny you would know how he owned Howard.

If you need to see the stats go find them.

And Deng was drafted very high on potential, not because he was a great player for his one year at Duke.

Redick for his entire career at Duke was our only real scoring threat, and he was our only deep threat.

Teams took away his open looks and he struggled, and thats to be expected when you guard him like a hawk.

In the NBA on a team like the Suns he would not be guarded like that with other options like Nash,Stoudemire and Diaw.

I'm done on this subject cause i won't change my stance on how i think of Redick and neither will you.

So Deng WASN'T named MOP of the Atlanta Regional? And he wasn't named Freshman of the Year in the ACC? And you DON'T have the stats to back up your seemingly bogus claim of Howard getting "owned" by Reddick? Am I missing something here? I think it's the sign of a pretty bad argument where someone spouts something off, then is asked for proof and tells you to find it yourself.

As as far as bets, I've made them with people before here and paid off and have been paid. But if you're afriad to make that bet, I completely understand.

 

[NastyOne]

There you go - that's how you should have finished that sentence. Didn't read that at first before responding to you, but now you're pimping of Redick makes complete homeristic sense.

That being said, he's gonna be nothing more than a role player at best and more than likely a bust. Take him with 21 or 27 - fine? Make the Casey Jacobsen mistake, take him at 10 and you're smoking crack.

Thank you super scout

I watched Redicks entire career at duke, you probably caught one or two games.

Every other scout believes his game will translate very well over to the NBA, and everyone considers him a lottery pick.

But cheesebeef from ASFN thinks otherwise and thats what counts!

Find me one scouting report from the countless NBA draft sites where they feel Redick is going to be a bust, bet ya you can't.

You know why? Cause its almost impossible nowadays to stop offensive players in the NBA with all the defensive rules today.

Redicks ability to shoot from anywhere on the court will force teams to play up under him, and he'll either put it on the floor and attack or get fouled.and hes a great free throw shooter.

 

[Cheesebeef]

and I'm still missing something here. In 2003 Reddick avergaed 15.9 points per game, but he obviously got very little help from no other scoring option like you say, even though Deng avergaed 15.1 points per game during the season and was named the MOP of the South Regional, right? Or the previous year when Damon Jones averaged 17 poiunts a game for Duke and led the team in scoring, right?

 

[Silverbullet]

I think we should look into a Lewis, Collison, and #10 for Marion and #27. Works under the cap and we do not have to worry about LB leaving or Fortson coming in. If they were to include Collison and take LB and Fortson out of the deal maybe we switch the 21 with the 27. What do you think?

 

[Mainstreet]

If this trade proposal still has any traction, I would like to especially get Swift, Petro or Ridnour from Seattle as part of the deal. If Fortson were included it would most likely be a three team trade and perhaps a player or pick in return for the Suns. It's hard to say without knowing all the pieces.

I think D'Antoni knows specifically what players he would target at #10 in the draft. IMO, the Suns want Lewis if they trade Marion, however, I think the key to this trade may actually be in the #10 pick and a player they want Seattle or another team to include, much like Diaw.

I think D'Antoni has already planned for the possibility they might not be able to re-sign Lewis after next season. I think this could well be like the JJ to Atlanta sign and trade. The filler may be the reason the Suns make the trade.

In other words, I think the Suns are looking at the long term implications of this trade with Lewis being part of the future or a nice transition piece to get the Suns a Championship next year. I think getting caught up in the Marion versus Lewis comparison may be deceptive if the Suns get another player they want and the #10 pick.

 

[NastyOne]

So Deng WASN'T named MOP of the Atlanta Regional? And he wasn't named Freshman of the Year in the ACC? And you DON'T have the stats to back up your seemingly bogus claim of Howard getting "owned" by Reddick? Am I missing something here? I think it's the sign of a pretty bad argument where someone spouts something off, then is asked for proof and tells you to find it yourself.

As as far as bets, I've made them with people before here and paid off and have been paid. But if you're afriad to make that bet, I completely understand.

Why do i need to show you proof? I watched the game, you didnt.

If you need to see actual evidence of the game, go google the damn thing.

And Deng was not our best player when he was here, neither during the season or any of the tournys.

When teams are trying to stop Redick, it makes other players job easier.

Everyones gameplan was "Don't let Redick beat you from outside"

 

[NastyOne]

and I'm still missing something here. In 2003 Reddick avergaed 15.9 points per game, but he obviously got very little help from no other scoring option like you say, even though Deng avergaed 15.1 points per game during the season and was named the MOP of the South Regional, right? Or the previous year when Damon Jones averaged 17 poiunts a game for Duke and led the team in scoring, right?

Are you really that dumb?

Now you're bringing his freshmen season into question? Jones was a senior, and Redick still was our best player even if he didnt lead the team in scoring.

Redick's deadly outside shot opened things up for every other player on the court.

You look at stats and think you know the entire story.

Watch a freaking game sometime.

 

[Cheesebeef]

as far as "owning" Howard on MANY nights, you care to back that one up either, since apparently udirng the regualr season Howard got the best of Redick TWICE outscoring him and out rebounding him in both games to the tune of 10/5 and 13/14 versus Redick's monsterour owning lines of 8/5 and 9/6?

Don't know what happened in the ACC tourny, but if Redick got over on him in that game as you say, which is dubious consdering that all of your others claims have been pretty useless, didn't Howard STILL get the better of him 2 of 3 times?

Again, I'm confused. How does scoring 8.5 points a game against Howard and getting outscored and rbeounded by him constitute owning him on MANY nights and how is it possible that Reddick never had anything else ont he etam even though he was the second leading scorer his Frosh year and Deng avergaed .8 point sless than him and went on to win the MOP in the tourney that year.

You're not making a whole lot of sense here dude.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Are you really that dumb?

Now you're bringing his freshmen season into question? Jones was a senior, and Redick still was our best player even if he didnt lead the team in scoring.

Redick's deadly outside shot opened things up for every other player on the court.

You look at stats and think you know the entire story.

Watch a freaking game sometime.

oh so - Deng was just a by product of Redick, huh? I guess that makes sense, considering Duke hasn't been near the Final 4 since Deng left.

As far as watching a game, I'm a college basketball nut buddy. JUst because you're a Duke fan doesn't mean you're god.

As far as bringing Redick's freshman year in question, huh, didn't you say that throughout Redick's ENTIRE CAREER he had no one else to play with? Does his entire career NOT include years one and two in college, because all memory/stats seem to prove you completely wrong, but hey, it's okay not to be able to admit you're wrong. It's a sign of lack on intelligence more than anything else, but you're a Duke fan, so that goes without saying.

 

[George O'Brien]

Back to the original topic. Does this deal make sense for the Suns? It all depends. Here is a scenerio where it MIGHT.

1. The Suns might feel Marion's unhappiness is going to effect the team chemistry. This has nothing to do with "disappearing" which is an unfair charge, but that he's an all star that is the fifth option on the offense. If he's not happy, it could be disruptive.

2. If Lewis is sufficiently anxious to get out of Seattle, they might make him relinquish his player option. There is little doubt Lewis would score a bunch of points on the Suns and would do it to get a shot at a title.

3. The Suns are convinced Leandro will be too expensive to re-sign. $8 million is absurd, but he might get a full MLE offer which would put the team in a financial bind.

4. The Suns want to sign TT and would need to do a five year MLE level deal to do it. It has seemed unlikely they would do that if they kept Leandro and Marion.

5. The Suns REALLY like someone at #10. We don't know who that is because they haven't worked out that many lottery guys.

6. The Suns really like one of the super athlete scorers available at 21 like Shannon Brown or Diaz who might replace what Leandro contributes. Neither are considered real PG prospects, but Leandro is hardly a pure PG either.

I am not saying that they feel this way, but if they did then this deal would make some sense. Otherwise...

 

[NastyOne]

as far as "owning" Howard on MANY nights, you care to back that one up either, since apparently udirng the regualr season Howard got the best of Redick TWICE outscoring him and out rebounding him in both games to the tune of 10/5 and 13/14 versus Redick's monsterour owning lines of 8/5 and 9/6?

Don't know what happened in the ACC tourny, but if Redick got over on him in that game as you say, which is dubious consdering that all of your others claims have been pretty useless, didn't Howard STILL get the better of him 2 of 3 times?

Again, I'm confused. How does scoring 8.5 points a game against Howard and getting outscored and rbeounded by him constitute owning him on MANY nights and how is it possible that Reddick never had anything else ont he etam even though he was the second leading scorer his Frosh year and Deng avergaed .8 point sless than him and went on to win the MOP in the tourney that year.

You're not making a whole lot of sense here dude.

Since you're to lazy to look up the stats of Redick versus Wake in the ACC tounry ill find them for you.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I;m still waiting to hear from you on the Deng situation and Redick made him sooo much better, even though Redick couldn't find his shot in the tourney, yet Deng STILL managed to win the MOP of the South regional.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I;m still waiting to hear from you on the Deng situation and Redick made him sooo much better, even though Redick couldn't find his shot in the tourney, yet Deng STILL managed to win the MOP of the South regional.

Ease up Cheese

 

[panfolk]

Back to the original topic. Does this deal make sense for the Suns? It all depends. Here is a scenerio where it MIGHT.

1. The Suns feel Marion's unhappiness is going to effect the team chemistry. This has nothing to do with "disappearing" which is an unfair charge, but that he's an all star that is the fifth option on the offense.

2. The Suns are convinced Leandro will be too expensive to re-sign. $8 million is absurd, but he might get a full MLE offer which would put the team in a financial bind.

3. The Suns want to sign TT and would need to do a five year MLE level deal to do it. It has seemed unlikely they would do that if they kept Leandro and Marion.

4. The Suns REALLY like someone at #10. We don't know who that is because they haven't worked out that many lottery guys.

5. The Suns really like one of the super athlete scorers available at 21 like Shannon Brown or Diaz who might replace what Leandro contributes. Neither are considered real PG prospects, but Leandro is hardly a pure PG either.

I am not saying that they feel this way, but if they did then this deal would make some sense. Otherwise...

All points have plausibility. I liked LB's performance in the playoffs but I think his deficits (head down drives, ticky tack fouls, etc.) might not be in other players with similar skill sets who got training at the college level. A S. Brown might replace what he does nicely while Brewer might surpass anything LB is capable of on hte court (being thicker he could probably finish better in contact situations) and give a semblance of a PG presence when Nash is out.

Marion has been the only malcontent other than Burke in the past season... Burke could easily be waived but Marion needs a replacement. Signing TT would give us substantial depth at all frontcourt positions if you consider Diaw is also coming off the bench. TT would be a luxury on any team that WASN'T going deep into the playoffs.

 

[Mainstreet]

Back to the original topic. Does this deal make sense for the Suns? It all depends. Here is a scenerio where it MIGHT.

1. The Suns feel Marion's unhappiness is going to effect the team chemistry. This has nothing to do with "disappearing" which is an unfair charge, but that he's an all star that is the fifth option on the offense.

2. The Suns are convinced Leandro will be too expensive to re-sign. $8 million is absurd, but he might get a full MLE offer which would put the team in a financial bind.

3. The Suns want to sign TT and would need to do a five year MLE level deal to do it. It has seemed unlikely they would do that if they kept Leandro and Marion.

4. The Suns REALLY like someone at #10. We don't know who that is because they haven't worked out that many lottery guys.

5. The Suns really like one of the super athlete scorers available at 21 like Shannon Brown or Diaz who might replace what Leandro contributes. Neither are considered real PG prospects, but Leandro is hardly a pure PG either.

I am not saying that they feel this way, but if they did then this deal would make some sense. Otherwise...

This is similar to the way I looked at it in my previous post. IMO, the key to this trade for the Suns is who they can get in return with the #10 pick or an additional player that is included (or drafted at #21). I think D'Antoni has a keen eye for talent that may be even unproven or riding the bench somewhere. Then if Lewis works out next year (or not), the Suns may want to keep him or let him go. I think the key to this trade may well be the included pieces and not necessarily the major components... at least for the Suns.

I am keeping an eye out for a young talent attached to the trade.

 

[devilalum]

How did this thread turn into a Redick debate?

I haven't even read that the Suns are interested?

 

[NastyOne]

I;m still waiting to hear from you on the Deng situation and Redick made him sooo much better, even though Redick couldn't find his shot in the tourney, yet Deng STILL managed to win the MOP of the South regional.

So let me see if i get this

Cause a team is gameplanning to stop one player, and their having success with it, that means it doesnt open up things for other players on the court?

When teams try and take Nash out of the game and we put in Leo with Steve, and Leo gets to handle the ball more, does he not score more?

Redick not finding his shot had nothing to do with him having an offnight, it was because of the defense that was thrown at him.

How hard is that to understand?

If teams guard the perimeter and take away the three, it leaves things open underneath for guys like Deng to operate.

Which would you rather as a coach, take away the three from the best three point shooter in college, or get beat by a 18 year old freshmen for two point fieldgoal?

Thats like saying Marion is great because he can score cause teams don't focus on him.

 

[NastyOne]

How did this thread turn into a Redick debate?

I haven't even read that the Suns are interested?

Because i mentioned that we might select Redick if Barbosa is involved in the deal, and the Duke haters come out and start the bashing.

Probably still upset with Arizona getting beat for the championship in 2001.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ease up Cheese

I'm just havign a little fun with someone who has dug a very deep grave for themself. I've got another question - apparently only teams in the Tourney game-plan to stop Redick and that's why he's so horrendous in post-season play. Does that mean the rest of the coaches all year long are just THAT stupid and never figured out that if you shut down Redick you beat Duke? Or could it be simply that EVERY coach gameplans Duke that way and Redick does just fine in the regular season when there's not as much pressure and the level of play isn't as high, but as the level of play and intensity rises he goes into meltdown? That couldnt' be, right?

And as far as getting wide-open three pointers - you do realize that both Dallas and SA gameplan where they let Amare/Diaw get his points one and one and they figure if they clamp down on the shooters (which they did in knocking us out the last two years), we're dead. So, how does Redick help us in that scenario. Is he going to be able to get away from Bruce Bowen clamping down on him or Josh Howard clmapiong down on him? Maybe Howard, after all, he "owned Howard many a nights" in college, averaging 8.5 points a game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So let me see if i get this

Cause a team is gameplanning to stop one player, and their having success with it, that means it doesnt open up things for other players on the court?

When teams try and take Nash out of the game and we put in Leo with Steve, and Leo gets to handle the ball more, does he not score more?

Redick not finding his shot had nothing to do with him having an offnight, it was because of the defense that was thrown at him.

How hard is that to understand?

If teams guard the perimeter and take away the three, it leaves things open underneath for guys like Deng to operate.

Which would you rather as a coach, take away the three from the best three point shooter in college, or get beat by a 18 year old freshmen for two point fieldgoal?

Thats like saying Marion is great because he can score cause teams don't focus on him.

oh, I see. Deng WAS just a on off-shoot of Redick's greatness. Got it. But again, are you really saying teams gameplan Duke differently in the Tourney than they do in the regular season? IF not, than why don't you just admit that Redick plays well when nothing's at stake, but when the pressure rises and athletes come into play, he's pretty much useless, shooting to the tune of 27%. I mean aren't ALL teams geared to stop Redick, no matter what point of the season is? If so, why is it that he just can't get squat done during the tourney? Magic?

 

[George O'Brien]

How did this thread turn into a Redick debate?

I haven't even read that the Suns are interested?

Draft Express said the Suns are talking, which is different than outright rejection.

I'm guessing the deal is being initiated by the Sonics because they are convinced Lewis is certain to opt out if he isn't traded. This could make a difference because final deals are always different than initial reports. This deal might turn out better than initially reported (unlike the Q for KT which the Suns sought and turned out worse than reported). Getting the Sonics second round pick at #40 would be a nice addition.