Rams continue to grow money: sign Bobby Wagner

[Chopper0080]

Like I've said elsewhere the difference is Stan Kroenke and Michael Bidwill.

The Rams are close to the cap? Push some money to future years and spend now.

The Cardinals? They don't have the cash reserve the Rams do. They are operating closer to the Packers level where they can only do a little bit of this maneuvering. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

Not holding the team accountable because the owner of the best investment you can have can't afford it is a sad level of gymnastics. It is back to the 90's and Sun Devil Stadium again I guess.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not holding the team accountable because the owner of the best investment you can have can't afford it is a sad level of gymnastics. It is back to the 90's and Sun Devil Stadium again I guess.

It's funny because I find myself straddling the line here between the rose colored glasses crowd and the hardcore darksiders.

I think the Cardinals SHOULD push money to next years cap, but I can see that they probably CAN'T do it.

 

[Stout]

It's funny because I find myself straddling the line here between the rose colored glasses crowd and the hardcore darksiders.

I think the Cardinals SHOULD push money to next years cap, but I can see that they probably CAN'T do it.

What we as a fan base CANNOT do is throw our hands up and say "Oh, it's cool, I understand we won't compete because I buy the excuses." You're sitting here telling us we HAVE to understand, we HAVE to give them the benefit of the doubt. We as fans very much do not, and should not. Krang, you're toeing the company line here. Don't let them off the hook.

 

[kerouac9]

Michael isn't a billionaire. He partially owns a multi-billionaire dollar asset, but he himself, isn't a billionaire.

What's lame is when people can't see that he can't do this. And he shouldn't be an NFL owner and we as fans, follow a team that isn't going to be able to do the things that rich teams can.

LOL that's so not true. The Bidwill family owns what? The Cardinals? What else?

I know you've asserted that the Bidwills are cash poor in comparison to other teams around the league, but where's the support for the assertion that it's preventing them from signing players?

I know Harry vaguely waved at this question in his thread, but honestly, there's no evidence to support that the Cards lack the liquidity to pay for big deals up-front.

Could Michael pay off whatever debt remains on the stadium tomorrow? Probably not. Could he find $20 million to pay as a signing bonus to Javedeon Clowney? No question.

The economics of the league have not shifted this much.

 

[QuebecCard]

So why as cardinals fans do we constantly give benefit of the doubt to guys who dont make impacts right away? Are we that used to losing that we just are so on the hopium to believe in development? I for once would like players to make impacts when we draft them. That has been a big lacking elephant in the room. Too many years do we just keep smoking that hopium and rarely recieve benefits. Also he may very well reach that #3 WR spot. But he is not a #2 in any way. come on everyone.

Because most draft picks don't make sizable impacts right away. There is an apprentice stage where they adapt to the rigours of the League.

 

[BritCard]

What we as a fan base CANNOT do is throw our hands up and say "Oh, it's cool, I understand we won't compete because I buy the excuses." You're sitting here telling us we HAVE to understand, we HAVE to give them the benefit of the doubt. We as fans very much do not, and should not. Krang, you're toeing the company line here. Don't let them off the hook.

This is the problem. The idea that the ONLY way to compete is to go "all in" and sign players left right and center. And nobody ever says WHO that should be other than the occasional pet player they like like Cedric Wilson (or I would hardly put on the all in spectrum).

Do fans here really want to pay Wagner $10m a year at 32? A guy that's always played in a 4-3. I don't think they do.

Do they really want to pay 33 year old Von Miller $20m a year over 3 years? I very much doubt it. He hasn't passed 10 sacks since 2018.

Would many even want to extend Chandler at $17m per for 3 years? I doubt it considering the drop off we have seen.

Everyone has a guy or 2 they wanted to sign. James Daniels for me for example. But I don't think any of them shout "All in" and actually most of them appear more on the value spectrum.

And the reason being is that FA, especially round 1, is full of overpriced 30+ year old vets on the downslope of their careers.

I'd love to see one of the all in crowd actually put together an all in list of signings and how they would make it work cap wise. I imagine it wouldn't look as "all in" as people think.

 

[Ronin]

Yes here we go keep yapping that trap. Okay fella tell what Rondale has accomplished??? Besides butterfinger hands?? i will wait on this answer since i already know the answer
oh so james washington game speed over the years shows he is slow huh? interesting. Lazard just always seems to be in deep threat situations and has a track record of completed catches. Okay so both those guys are established players. I am not seeing the negative there?? Also we need size not just a bunch of crap Andy Isabellas. We missed out on countless players is my point. We could have gave up yes virtually nothing to get some? Is that not correct?

Attack the post not the poster please.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I know you've asserted that the Bidwills are cash poor in comparison to other teams around the league, but where's the support for the assertion that it's preventing them from signing players?

I know Harry vaguely waved at this question in his thread, but honestly, there's no evidence to support that the Cards lack the liquidity to pay for big deals up-front.

Where's the evidence to support that they can. Do you have financial documents of the Bidwills? I keep reading over and over that the cap is a farce and the Bidwill's can pay this. Why aren't they? I think the explanation is pretty self explanatory.

Could Michael pay off whatever debt remains on the stadium tomorrow? Probably not. Could he find $20 million to pay as a signing bonus to Javedeon Clowney? No question.

Why would he? It's a business to him. He makes his living from the Cardinals and signing Clowney hurts the business aspect. They are still going to get their payday and the Cardinals team value will rise.

Paying Clowney $20 million hurts them in the bank account and even though they give out socks and t shirts to players, this is still a family business.

The economics of the league have not shifted this much.

The cap keeps things at least a little competitive, but we've seen where teams with lots of cash are able to circumvent cap issues that seemed impossible to get around just a few years ago.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This is the problem. The idea that the ONLY way to compete is to go "all in" and sign players left right and center. And nobody ever says WHO that should be other than the occasional pet player they like like Cedric Wilson (or I would hardly put on the all in spectrum).

It's an emotional response without much thought going into it.

Do fans here really want to pay Wagner $10m a year at 32? A guy that's always played in a 4-3. I don't think they do.

Do they really want to pay 33 year old Von Miller $20m a year over 3 years? I very much doubt it. He hasn't passed 10 sacks since 2018.

Would many even want to extend Chandler at $17m per for 3 years? I doubt it considering the drop off we have seen.

Everyone has a guy or 2 they wanted to sign. James Daniels for me for example. But I don't think any of them shout "All in" and actually most of them appear more on the value spectrum.

And the reason being is that FA, especially round 1, is full of overpriced 30+ year old vets on the downslope of their careers.

I'd love to see one of the all in crowd actually put together an all in list of signings and how they would make it work cap wise. I imagine it wouldn't look as "all in" as people think.

It's all fools gold. I didn't even think up a "Cardinals Free Agency Plan" this year because I thought it was pretty apparent they weren't going to do to much. Most of the moves that fans on here would want to make would have absolutely negligible...and would likely be harmful if you consider future cap ramifications.

 

[BritCard]

It's an emotional response without much thought going into it.

It's all fools gold. I didn't even think up a "Cardinals Free Agency Plan" this year because I thought it was pretty apparent they weren't going to do to much. Most of the moves that fans on here would want to make would have absolutely negligible...and would likely be harmful if you consider future cap ramifications.

I mean, I'm looking at all the FA deals that have been done and there are so few where I think the player is good and hasn't been massively overpaid. Or where I think "That deal has a good chance of paying off".

About 20 pages of Will Hernandez moaning on here when he signed for $1.1m and Mason Cole, Mason freaking Cole, signed for $5.75m per year for 3 years.

 

[Stout]

This is the problem. The idea that the ONLY way to compete is to go "all in" and sign players left right and center. And nobody ever says WHO that should be other than the occasional pet player they like like Cedric Wilson (or I would hardly put on the all in spectrum).

Do fans here really want to pay Wagner $10m a year at 32? A guy that's always played in a 4-3. I don't think they do.

Do they really want to pay 33 year old Von Miller $20m a year over 3 years? I very much doubt it. He hasn't passed 10 sacks since 2018.

Would many even want to extend Chandler at $17m per for 3 years? I doubt it considering the drop off we have seen.

Everyone has a guy or 2 they wanted to sign. James Daniels for me for example. But I don't think any of them shout "All in" and actually most of them appear more on the value spectrum.

And the reason being is that FA, especially round 1, is full of overpriced 30+ year old vets on the downslope of their careers.

I'd love to see one of the all in crowd actually put together an all in list of signings and how they would make it work cap wise. I imagine it wouldn't look as "all in" as people think.

Oh, I'm not saying that's the only way, nor is it necessarily the way we should be going. I'm only saying it shouldn't be an excuse for the team. I mean, yes, this season should absolutely be an "all-in" season, considering KM's contract status. How we go about that--other than the atrocious approach we have thus far--is up for debate, IMO.

 

[oaken1]

So why as cardinals fans do we constantly give benefit of the doubt to guys who dont make impacts right away? Are we that used to losing that we just are so on the hopium to believe in development? I for once would like players to make impacts when we draft them. That has been a big lacking elephant in the room. Too many years do we just keep smoking that hopium and rarely recieve benefits. Also he may very well reach that #3 WR spot. But he is not a #2 in any way. come on everyone.

Because some of us have a functional IQ and understand that rookies don't often make a huge impact.

 

[Chopper0080]

I know you've asserted that the Bidwills are cash poor in comparison to other teams around the league, but where's the support for the assertion that it's preventing them from signing players?

I know Harry vaguely waved at this question in his thread, but honestly, there's no evidence to support that the Cards lack the liquidity to pay for big deals up-front.

Could Michael pay off whatever debt remains on the stadium tomorrow? Probably not. Could he find $20 million to pay as a signing bonus to Javedeon Clowney? No question.

The economics of the league have not shifted this much.

To this point, even if Bidwill was cash poor, you would think he would be prioritizing a GM with a solid draft resume, coaches who are proven to be able to play and develop those players, as well as a consistent aversion to signing higher priced FAs over a period of time. This hasn't been the case over the past few years which is why this year is noteworthy.

 

[TRW]

Michael isn't a billionaire.

Forbes shows Michael Bidwill's net worth at $1.4 billion dollars. Money is NOT a factor in the Cardinals signing and paying of players in the NFL. It's just not.

 

[jf-08]

Forbes shows Michael Bidwill's net worth at $1.4 billion dollars. Money is NOT a factor in the Cardinals signing and paying of players in the NFL. It's just not.

Furthermore, for argument sake, let's assume that MB is worth $1B (easier math).

And let's assume that Person A's house is worth $500K and this is basically all of his net worth.

By comparing MB's paying a lump sum bonus of $25M would be similar to Person A paying $12,500 cash for something. It may or may not be something that one has in a bank account, but financing can be had.

 

[Realist Cards Fan]

Because some of us have a functional IQ and understand that rookies don't often make a huge impact.

LOL wait i am the one that was told to not attack the poster.... meanwhile calling me out on IQ. Interesting post considering i have yet to see a valid intelligent post from you maybe you should fully read my post and understand the point i was making. MODS thanks for calling me out when others on here attack me great job.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Realist Cards Fan]

anyways the meaning of my post was stop settling for mediocrity as a fan base. Stop giving excuses for players that are supposed to be doing better.

 

[Cheesebeef]

LOL wait i am the one that was told to not attack the poster.... meanwhile calling me out on IQ. Interesting post considering i have yet to see a valid intelligent post from you maybe you should fully read my post and understand the point i was making. MODS thanks for calling me out when others on here attack me great job.

You must be registered for see images attach

gotta get used to that Realist. this board and moderators have always given "positive" people carte blanche to attack anyone who isn't whistling zippidy doo-dah out of their bums. always have, always will.

 

[TRW]

Furthermore, for argument sake, let's assume that MB is worth $1B (easier math).

And let's assume that Person A's house is worth $500K and this is basically all of his net worth.

By comparing MB's paying a lump sum bonus of $25M would be similar to Person A paying $12,500 cash for something. It may or may not be something that one has in a bank account, but financing can be had.

Blaming lack of funds on hand as to why MB can't sign ANY player is a bit of a stretch IMO.

 

[oaken1]

LOL wait i am the one that was told to not attack the poster.... meanwhile calling me out on IQ. Interesting post considering i have yet to see a valid intelligent post from you maybe you should fully read my post and understand the point i was making. MODS thanks for calling me out when others on here attack me great job.

You must be registered for see images attach

I never mentioned you at all. You asked a question and I answered it.

 

[BritCard]

anyways the meaning of my post was stop settling for mediocrity as a fan base. Stop giving excuses for players that are supposed to be doing better.

Mediocrity? You called a rookie that had 1 drop and the highest catch rate in the league "butterfingers".

He played 432 snaps and had 511 yards. That's 1.23 yards per snap.

That's up there with the best rookies last year. Devonta Smith for example had 1 yard per snap.

You wrote off a kid that was asked to fill a specific role on only 45% of snaps. But don't worry. I'll remember this and we can revisit it come the end of next season.

 

[Realist Cards Fan]

Once again Brit we are back to same answer as Kyler then. Going into year 4 asking for QB top 5 money. But no 4000 yard season or playoff win. Yes mediocrity. We dont know how to win and we as a organization/fanbase like to recognize/award/praise players who have not shown they know how to win. Rondale yes is brand new i get that. We cant act like he is second coming of Tyreek. He show a flash here and there but to be excited from a Fan perspective most people are not. A 5'7 WR that is super fast isnt exciting anymore. We have had enough small "fast" WRs and never get anybody that pans out. Your statistics mean nothing if the end results do not relate to wins

 

[Ronin]

LOL wait i am the one that was told to not attack the poster.... meanwhile calling me out on IQ. Interesting post considering i have yet to see a valid intelligent post from you maybe you should fully read my post and understand the point i was making. MODS thanks for calling me out when others on here attack me great job.

You must be registered for see images attach

Lol you insulted his intelligence and then covered it up with a smiley face and then you reported oaken. nice.
Anyway, it's open for discussion with the mods.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Forbes shows Michael Bidwill's net worth at $1.4 billion dollars. Money is NOT a factor in the Cardinals signing and paying of players in the NFL. It's just not.

Which includes his stake in the team.. a team that is near the bottom in the NFL in revenue...

 

[Krangodnzr]

gotta get used to that Realist. this board and moderators have always given "positive" people carte blanche to attack anyone who isn't whistling zippidy doo-dah out of their bums. always have, always will.

Persecution complex much?