Republic: Suns want Banks to lead

azirish

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http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0710suns0711.html

Suns want Banks to lead

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 10, 2007 10:26 PM
LAS VEGAS - Marcus Banks scored 42 points in a game Monday and missed one shot in a scrimmage Tuesday.

Banks is being more vocal, directing on-court traffic and giving off-court encouragement to the rookies and raw hopefuls on Phoenix's NBA Summer League team.

Yet, it is still a work in progress with Banks, a point guard Phoenix sought to trade in February and again last month. He's in the first year of a five-year, $21 million deal.

Banks has more talent than most of the players here. He is fast, strong and can be a defensive menace. And if he shot last season like he has this week, he might not have fallen out of the rotation.

The trick for Phoenix and Banks is to make him fit, whether it is to get value out of him in games or by trade. It was a square peg for a round hole last season when Banks had the worst plus-minus ratio of any Suns regular. Even in Banks' finest moments the team did not always thrive, just as Phoenix lost Monday despite Banks' league-record tally.

"It's learning that fine line between being able to get team productivity and being able to contribute offensively," said Suns assistant Phil Weber, the summer team's head coach.

Banks gets that. He always has been good about stating what he should do. Executing the concept is the next step.

"Basically, just running my team," Banks said of what he needs to get out of summer play. "That's what I want to focus on. I know I can score at will and do those things but I also want these young guys to understand it's more than just scoring. It's about a team. It's about encouragement and having fun out there."

Banks started and ended the first half showing a better understanding of what he needs to do as a point guard Monday. On the game's first play, Banks blew by Cleveland's Shannon Brown dished to Alando Tucker for a score. When the half ended, Banks stood ahead of his teammates and slapped each one's hands as they came off the floor. In between, he implored teammates to move faster and called for outlets before they even had the rebound.

But after the first play, Banks had two assists in the other 31 minutes. And when he took over with hot shooting, Banks' teammates were out of the flow.

Banks' scoring was necessary because many Suns were tentative in the summer opener, which was illustrated when Banks fed Pape Sow late in the game and Sow fumbled it because he never expected it.

"He's here, and I think that shows a lot," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. "He's working hard and trying to be a leader. I think it's a good step.

"He probably needs to learn how to incorporate his scoring ability with the ability to run the team at the same time. That's probably the hardest thing for a playmaker to learn."

Banks did a little more of it in a Tuesday scrimmage win against Detroit. At one point, Banks guided two players through a two-man game by command, and the Suns scored without Banks touching the ball. He was encouraging, telling Sow, "Take your time," after a miss, just as he told D.J. Strawberry, after Strawberry was stripped Monday: "Move it (pass) . . . That's OK, though."

After all, Banks often was benched for the same misdeed when he pounded the ball in one spot or froze rather than keeping the ball moving. He made only 5of 29 three-point shots last season but went 4 for 5 on threes Monday and hit his only three-point shot Tuesday, when he cut back his turnovers. The only shot he missed was a rolling jump hook through the lane, a la Steve Nash. But Phoenix isn't expecting him to be Nash. They just want the quick-striking, defensively tough point guard they signed.

Banks looks more comfortable here in his hometown, where he can drive his orange Lamborghini from his off-season house to his college arena.

"My main thing is to have a leadership role to the guys, get to know D.J. and 'Tuck' (Tucker) and give them a feel of what it might be like," he said. "It could be a great situation. I want to grow as a basketball player. This is my job. Their job is to coach. My job is to play. I want to get better every day, no matter what it takes."

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/3157

Suns win, Suns win


Well, sort of.
The Suns staff wanted to count it so it could be Steve Kerr's first GM victory. But even though Phoenix's summer team beat Detroit 85-76 on Tuesday afternoon, the game was just an unofficial scrimmage in an empty arena. Well, everything at NBA Summer League is loosely official anyway because the vast majority of the players won't be in the NBA come November.
Marcus Banks shot the ball well again, hitting seven of eight shots to score 15 points by my extremely unofficial stats. He again did a lot of scoring damage in the fourth, hitting a three and two jumpers in a 90-second stretch to keep Detroit away. I might have missed a turnover but I only had him for three so there was improvement there, although his instincts to run a team did not just suddenly show up.

The guy that continues to stand out to me is Otis George. The former Louisville career backup was scoreless in the first half but had a 12-point third quarter and finished with 16 points. He's got a nice mid-range shot, is always active and rolls off his screens really well when he does not move too early for offensive fouls. He's a thin 6 feet 9 so that may be what hurts him in the end.
As for the other summer starters, Pape Sow scored 10, Alando Tucker had seven and D.J. Strawberry had six but the two draftees closed the game with a pretty fastbreak that showed some of the chemistry they are forming.
 
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TucsonDevil

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Are we now to believe that Banks will try and morph into someone he is not? Or are we to believe that Banks does have more Nash traits than he has shown up 'til now?

It is very sad that the lead story this off-season seems to be the same as last year's - 'Banks is the great backup for the Suns, trust us'.

I just have one question for the Suns and Coach D, can we fire Mike D'Antoni when he fails to play Banks with any consistency by mid-December? Or, can we fire Mike D'Antoni the first time he plays less than 9 guys in a regular season game before the month of March?

Does anyone else think that Mike D'Antoni has a short leash?
 

Goldfield

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I think the team is good enough to let the bench players play more in regular season games.
 

elindholm

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Does anyone else think that Mike D'Antoni has a short leash?

I think his leash is plenty long. The team does great in the regular season, and postseason success isn't a top priority of the franchise. They're accomplishing almost everything they want to, so why change?
 

Treesquid PhD

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I think his leash is plenty long. The team does great in the regular season, and postseason success isn't a top priority of the franchise. They're accomplishing almost everything they want to, so why change?

$arver might like the extra $$$ from each home games in the playoffs.
 

BillsCarnage

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Does anyone else think that Mike D'Antoni has a short leash?

One of the shortest leashes I've ever seen between a coach and player.

Banks can play as can a number of the other bench players the Suns have had over the years, however the moment they do something that hurts the team D'Ant yanks them.

Either play Banks and let him have his down days, just as Nash, Amare, Marion, etc will have, or figure out a way to remove the salary.
 

ArizonaSportsFan

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I think his leash is plenty long. The team does great in the regular season, and postseason success isn't a top priority of the franchise. They're accomplishing almost everything they want to, so why change?

:rolleyes:

That is pure BS and you know it. So, only 1 team has the post-season as a top priority? The only purpose for that statement was to piss people off - and not the FO since they are not on here.
 

MastersofCombat

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^^ I agree that is bull, but I also agree there were moves that couldve been done to make this team better. All-in-All I understand the position the Suns are in.
 

elindholm

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That is pure BS and you know it.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think it's BS at all. Sure, the Suns would rather win a title than not. But it's not as high a priority as making money, drumming up regular-season excitement, having support within the community, and gaining attention for the fast-paced style.

The Suns have had plenty of opportunities to increase their title chances at the expense of one of those other priorities. They haven't done it. That means that, when push comes to shove, the title aspirations aren't quite as important as those other things.
 

JCSunsfan

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It was interesting to see the DAntoni brothers in the stands at the game (there was one shot of them on the streaming video). I wonder if a coach gets a different perspective on his players watching them play in this format under a different coach.
 

JCSunsfan

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You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think it's BS at all. Sure, the Suns would rather win a title than not. But it's not as high a priority as making money, drumming up regular-season excitement, having support within the community, and gaining attention for the fast-paced style.

The Suns have had plenty of opportunities to increase their title chances at the expense of one of those other priorities. They haven't done it. That means that, when push comes to shove, the title aspirations aren't quite as important as those other things.

If they are trying to move KT just in order to drop his salary, they must not have much appreciation for his game. I know his salary is not proportionate to his minutes, but his minutes should be increase IMO.

Its hard for me to fathom how a coach can watch KT defend and shoot that midrange jumper, and not see the huge value in that. As a defender he holds his space on the floor, he pushes the best post up players in the league off the block. He frustrates their shot without leaving his feet. He has the respect of the refs as an interior defender. He defended Duncan as well as I have seen anyone ever do it. He's money with that open midrange shot.

I was not a big KT fan before he came here, but watching him work has given me a huge appreciation of him. I have a son who will probably end up playing the post (or pf) in high school, and I sat him down and made him watch KT play D. Watching him is a clinique on how it is supposed to be done.

Maybe they tried to convince him not to use his player option and sign for more years and less money, and he refused. Maybe there is a little bad blood there now. Who knows.
 

TucsonDevil

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You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think it's BS at all. Sure, the Suns would rather win a title than not. But it's not as high a priority as making money, drumming up regular-season excitement, having support within the community, and gaining attention for the fast-paced style.

The Suns have had plenty of opportunities to increase their title chances at the expense of one of those other priorities. They haven't done it. That means that, when push comes to shove, the title aspirations aren't quite as important as those other things.


I agree with the statement that... "The Suns aren't looking to win a championship AT THE EXPENSE of making money, having good players that will support the community, stay clean of drugs/felonies/etc, and engaging in a fun style of play."

If that is what you meant, then yes, I agree 100%. AND, I endorse that mission statement as a fan.
 

Treesquid PhD

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You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think it's BS at all. Sure, the Suns would rather win a title than not. But it's not as high a priority as making money, drumming up regular-season excitement, having support within the community, and gaining attention for the fast-paced style.

The Suns have had plenty of opportunities to increase their title chances at the expense of one of those other priorities. They haven't done it. That means that, when push comes to shove, the title aspirations aren't quite as important as those other things.

You know I think another perspective would be that there is some conflict within the Suns. I think some in the organization really do want to win a title but on the other hand they are still learning the business, and there are probably others who are greedy folks who only care about recapturing their investment.

So it's going to take some time for the ownership group to get things right, and at least their willing to get close, I guess it's better than the chit cardinals fans have to put up with. The funny thing is their fans seem to defend thier pitiful owners almost as much as we hate on ours for the Suns.
 
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azirish

azirish

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The Suns have had plenty of opportunities to increase their title chances at the expense of one of those other priorities. They haven't done it. That means that, when push comes to shove, the title aspirations aren't quite as important as those other things.

Taking into account the limits placed by being so far above the LT line, what EXACTLY are these great opportunities they've pased up? (Don't tell me that trading Amare and KT for KG was a great opportunity because is just wasn't).

As for their not being intrested in winning in the playoffs, I would note that they have been to the WCF twice and lost to the eventual NBA champs twic in the last three three years. This is not exactly a first round exit team.

The real problem the Suns have is that they do not match up well against Duncan. In the last three years the Spurs have won the championship twice and only failed to win a year ago when injuries slowed them up. It hasn't helped that the Suns have been dinged up in their playoff runs and the Spurs were disgustedly healthy. But blaming the Suns for not doing what no one else can do it either is unreasonable.
 

SweetD

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Why is ok for Barbosa to not worry about getting a team in the flow, but it is not ok for Banks. I think they are the same type player and that could be the problem. I am not saying Banks has the skill Barbosa does.
 
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azirish

azirish

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Why is ok for Barbosa to not worry about getting a team in the flow, but it is not ok for Banks. I think they are the same type player and that could be the problem. I am not saying Banks has the skill Barbosa does.

Last season Banks had become a basketball black hole on offense. Leandro did not just dribble around looking to make a one on one move.

That being said, Banks has the talent to be pretty good once he understands that this is a team game.
 

elindholm

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I agree with the statement that... "The Suns aren't looking to win a championship AT THE EXPENSE of making money, having good players that will support the community, stay clean of drugs/felonies/etc, and engaging in a fun style of play."

If that is what you meant, then yes, I agree 100%.

What I originally wrote was that it wasn't "a top priority." That's vague language, because how many top priorities are there?

To be honest, I'm not sure how much of the franchise's soul I'd we willing to see sold to get a title. As we know from visiting fans of other teams, the ends sure seem to justify the means once the trophy is lifted.
 
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azirish

azirish

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What I originally wrote was that it wasn't "a top priority." That's vague language, because how many top priorities are there?

To be honest, I'm not sure how much of the franchise's soul I'd we willing to see sold to get a title. As we know from visiting fans of other teams, the ends sure seem to justify the means once the trophy is lifted.

The "ends justify the means" is pretty abstract. Sometimes it is just an issue of being in the right place at the right time.

Clearly the acquisition of Sheed was the key to the Pistons getting their title. The problem for the Suns was that they did not have the expiring contracts the Hawks were looking for.

The Heat "sold thier soul" to get Shaq and they go their title, but now have an aging team that is in deep trouble. As it was, they might easily have fallen short if it was not for the Mavs meltdown.

So who eles have sold their souls for one championship?
 

elindholm

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So who eles have sold their souls for one championship?

It depends on how low you set the bar. The Spurs just won through constant fouling, but the Suns won't adopt that strategy, apparently believing it to be immoral in some abstract way. The Isiah Thomas Pistons won their titles through sheer, in your face nastiness -- they were a team everyone else would have hated had they won or not. The Bulls won their titles by letting Jordan do whatever he wanted off the court and working full-time to keep his unseemly exploits out of the papers. The Lakers' last run of titles, at least two of the three, came at the hands of outrageously biased officiating, cheapening the accomplishment in the eyes of everyone except themselves and their fans.

The Suns apparently want to win a good, clean championship that the whole world can feel happy about and which is above any reproach or cross-examination. That's completely unrealistic. If their terms are that they aren't willing to win a title any other way, they are virtually doomed to fail.
 

scoutmasterdave

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The Heat "sold thier soul" to get Shaq and they go their title, but now have an aging team that is in deep trouble. As it was, they might easily have fallen short if it was not for the Mavs meltdown.
Give me that any day of the week. At least they have a title. They still have D-Wade, and they could have dumped Shaq, before giving him an enormous extension, and started to rebuild.

I agree with Eric - the Suns just don't seem to have winning a title at the top of their priority list. The Diamondbacks definitely mortgaged their future to win a title, and I don't see many people regretting that after seeing the championship banner raised at BOB. Do whatever it takes, if you ask me - this franchise has gone close to forty years without a title. It's about time they made that one last push while they are so close...
 
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azirish

azirish

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It depends on how low you set the bar. The Spurs just won through constant fouling, but the Suns won't adopt that strategy, apparently believing it to be immoral in some abstract way.

The Suns reluctance to foul is not some case of "morality". The Suns did not have the depth to let everybody get into foul trouble. Yes, they should have developed more depth, but your point is that it was based on some moral stance which I would dispute.

Clearly the Suns want to get the tempo up and getting to "make them earn it at the line" stuff clearly slows things down. Against the Spurs deliverate fouling might make sense, but letting a lot of older palyers rest while standing at the line and stalling before taking foul shots might not.

Now if you are talking about fouling and not getting called, it is hard to train guys to do that. Maybe it's true that if you foul all the time you can get away with more of it than a team that avoids fouling. But IMHO, it's just that Spurs get special consideration and there is nothing the Suns can do about it. That is hardly a moral stand.

I do think that D'Antoni's "run them into the ground" approach is hard to implement in the playoffs. This because if for no other reason than the 30 minutes of commcerials at every timeout Bu t but I don't think this is some moral fixation. IMHO, they have to tweek their approach to play the Spurs (more KT and less double teaming), but playing slow and having everybody foul out does not seem all that promising either.
 
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ArizonaSportsFan

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Give me that any day of the week. At least they have a title. They still have D-Wade, and they could have dumped Shaq, before giving him an enormous extension, and started to rebuild.

I agree with Eric - the Suns just don't seem to have winning a title at the top of their priority list. The Diamondbacks definitely mortgaged their future to win a title, and I don't see many people regretting that after seeing the championship banner raised at BOB. Do whatever it takes, if you ask me - this franchise has gone close to forty years without a title. It's about time they made that one last push while they are so close...
Eric said nothing about "winning a title" - he said "postseason success", which I called him out on. Obviously there are various shades of postseason success - I would say that the Suns have been successful in the PS the past few years, but you may not. And that's okay. I would love for the Suns to win a title - but if you told me the Suns would be guaranteed a title if they sat Nash for the season and only played Banks/Barbs at PG, I would say "no thanks". The Suns are who they are at this point in time (Nash/Amare/Marion +) and they will do all they can to win a title with this group - all other concerns in mind. If it doesn't happen - and even if it does - they will reshape the team when Nash leaves. Just because the Spurs lucked/tanked into Robinson and Duncan does not mean that their FO wants the title any more than any other contender, IMO. Take TD off of the Spurs and they have NO titles and are a very average team, same with Chicago and MJ, but there aren't many TDs and MJs out there. But even with these great players it takes some fortune to get to the top. I mean, the Cavs are pretty ordinary, but they were in the Finals. Did their FO "want it" more than the Suns?
 
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Treesquid PhD

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Why is ok for Barbosa to not worry about getting a team in the flow, but it is not ok for Banks. I think they are the same type player and that could be the problem. I am not saying Banks has the skill Barbosa does.

It's purely skill and results, Barbosa is pretty much ungaurdable by 90% of the people in NBA. Banks while talented, is a step below Barbosa.

Barbosa also had the luxury of being on 3 Suns teams that were not expected to do much more than the playoffs (recall 04 Suns sucked, 05 people railed on the Suns for Nash, 06 Amare), Banks came into the huge expectations year and the team sucked in the first 10 games, so Barbosa had a longer leash to grow. Sucks for Banks but that's tough.
 

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who would have gussed marcus banks would set a record for summer league scoring? sure it doesnt mean much, but damn you gotta tip your hat to him for showing some sign of life on offense. we know he can play defense, so i for one am hopefull about next season for him
 
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