So what is accomplished by firing Whis?

[Cbus cardsfan]

I agree with about everything Chopper has said in this thread.

For all the people clamoring that a different QB should have been brought in, who do you suggest? Who was out there that would have made the Cards so much better? They tried for Manning. What else could they have done. Good QB's generally aren't sitting around waiting for jobs. I personally wanted Palmer. He's had mixed results in Oakland.

Some will use Alex Smith as an argument but he's been benched in year 2 of Harbuagh at SF. We don't know if he'd been an improvement over Kolb or not. Kolb was generally considered the best available, but he can't stay healthy and his play has been so-so.

 

[Syracusecards]

I agree with about everything Chopper has said in this thread.

For all the people clamoring that a different QB should have been brought in, who do you suggest? Who was out there that would have made the Cards so much better? They tried for Manning. What else could they have done. Good QB's generally aren't sitting around waiting for jobs. I personally wanted Palmer. He's had mixed results in Oakland.

Some will use Alex Smith as an argument but he's been benched in year 2 of Harbuagh at SF. We don't know if he'd been an improvement over Kolb or not. Kolb was generally considered the best available, but he can't stay healthy and his play has been so-so.

A QB should have been selected to be groomed while Kurt was here.

 

[Duckjake]

The last time we changed coaches we were in the SB in just two seasons.

CKW has taken the nucleus that Green left him to the Super Bowl and then dismantled it and turned it into the cluster that we watched today. When do you put a stop to the deterioration of the offensive talent? Next year? The year after? The defense is in place. So we're not handing the new coach a completely bare cubbard. 3 years is plenty of time to recover from losing Warner. Whisenhunt hasn't done it so its time for him to go. And you have to wonder if Steve Kiem is really the top talent he is purported to be.

 

[sportznutt]

What is accomplished by keeping Whiz?

 

[Duckjake]

A QB should have been selected to be groomed while Kurt was here.

We did select one while Warner was here but he wasn't CKW's guy and the QB was spending more time being Hollywood than an NFL QB so now we've regressed to the worst passing QB in the history of the NFL. I've been watching NFL football since the 60's and I've never seen a guy throw the football as poorly as Lindley did today. He looked like one of the computer geeks that get selected to try to throw the ball at a target to win a car or something.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

A QB should have been selected to be groomed while Kurt was here.

who?

I've posted previously on the QB's that have been available when the Cards have drafted and you get names like Pat White and Jimmy Clausen. There is not 1 QB the Cards could have drafted that have made the slightest impact in the league.

 

[Duckjake]

who?

I've posted previously on the QB's that have been available when the Cards have drafted and you get names like Pat White and Jimmy Clausen. There is not 1 QB the Cards could have drafted that have made the slightest impact in the league.

Matt Leinart.

Warner was signed in 2005.

Just because your college team cheats to win doesn't mean you can forget your Cardinal history.

 

[PJ1]

Two teams in our division had QB problems with Hassleback getting old and Alex Smith floundering under Singletary.

Yet they have both managed to be in better shape than we are by a long shot. Seattle stumbled with signing Whitehurst etc but still are better off than us right now.

They both selected QB's in the draft that look like they can actually play. We haven't.

 

[Joe L]

No, you don't get it. Whisenhunt hand picked his QBs. He oversaw the whole thing. The lack of a legitimate NFL QB on this team for the past 3 years is a direct indictment on Whisenhunt as a player evaluator, as someone who develops players and as a coach. The majority of the problems facing this team come back to the usual suspects, Graves, Whisenhunt, Grimm and company.

What he said.

 

[CtCardinals78]

who?

I've posted previously on the QB's that have been available when the Cards have drafted and you get names like Pat White and Jimmy Clausen. There is not 1 QB the Cards could have drafted that have made the slightest impact in the league.

Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernik, T.J. Yates, Ryan Mallett, Brock Osweiler, Nick Foles are all guys the Cardinals could have had.

 

[PJ1]

who?

I've posted previously on the QB's that have been available when the Cards have drafted and you get names like Pat White and Jimmy Clausen. There is not 1 QB the Cards could have drafted that have made the slightest impact in the league.

For starters I would take Wilson, Dalton, Tannehill and Kaepernick over anything we have.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

For starters I would take Wilson, Dalton, Tannehill and Kaepernick over anything we have.

This hardly responds or takes into account CBUS point.

 

[PJ1]

This hardly responds or takes into account CBUS point.

It certainly does.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

For starters I would take Wilson, Dalton, Tannehill and Kaepernick over anything we have.

With Kaepernick and Dalton, they were both 2nd round picks taken before the Cards selected in that round. Tannehill was also picked before the Cards chose. Wilson, I want nothing to do with. The league will have him figured out soon enough.

You could argue the Cards could have made a move to trade up, but that falls on Graves and Keim, who run the draft, not Whiz. Plus, everyone of those guys had, and still have, question marks about them. Kaepernick gave the game to the Rams today.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

It certainly does.

CBUS had a detailed post on who was available when the Cards selected over the last number years, and your response in nothing but an after the fact generic list. Mind you, if you have posts calling on the Cards to draft any of the above... Good on you!

 

[CtCardinals78]

With Kaepernick and Dalton, they were both 2nd round picks taken before the Cards selected in that round. Tannehill was also picked before the Cards chose. Wilson, I want nothing to do with. The league will have him figured out soon enough.

You could argue the Cards could have made a move to trade up, but that falls on Graves and Keim, who run the draft, not Whiz. Plus, everyone of those guys had, and still have, question marks about them. Kaepernick gave the game to the Rams today.

Wasn't it Whiz who wanted to move up to get Branch and then DWash? It certainly wouldn't have been breaking precedent if Whiz made the case to move up to get one of those guys.

 

[Duckjake]

Wasn't it Whiz who wanted to move up to get Branch and then DWash? It certainly wouldn't have been breaking precedent if Whiz made the case to move up to get one of those guys.

We moved up to draft Skelton.

 

[clif]

Sorry but based on this logic a team should never fire a coach. No company should ever fire an underperforming employee. We should never expect to improve because we might have to start over.

 

[JeffGollin]

You don't just fire the coach you fire everyone all the way to the top spot and since you can't fire family then Michael goes out and finds a new GM instead of a new coach.

Honestly, after what we saw today, are you seriously saying you want to give this management team including Graves another year to see what new and innovative ways they come up with to lose games?

How about a new GM comes in, and keeps who he wants and discards the rest and starts over?

I don't think there's much danger it could get worse from here.

Agree.

You evaluate the entire program and the people executing it. If you believe the program has hit a brick wall and can't be put back on course by tweaking, you have to take a long, hard look at everyone from top to bottom.

It's a hard call. Was the franchise merely a victim of bad luck? Or is "bad luck" merely a cop-out for incompetence.

I don't think you go halfway. Either you blow up the entire front office, or leave things as is and tweak along the edges.

IMHO, the series of decisions centering around our QB since Kurt have been a comedy of errors that have left the franchise in disarray. At the very least, the FO situation warrants a long hard look. But with the caveat that, when you make major changes, you risk disrupting any system or strategic continuity you may be trying to develop.

Bottom line, we may have to do something drastic, but do so at our own peril. Tough call.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Wasn't it Whiz who wanted to move up to get Branch and then DWash? It certainly wouldn't have been breaking precedent if Whiz made the case to move up to get one of those guys.

You also have to have willing trade partners. Cincy was targeting Dalton the whole time. Plus, it was rumored, although not confirmed, that the Cards had a deal in place to acquire Kolb. No matter what, I think the Cards knew there was a pretty good chance they we're getting Kolb.

 

[PJ1]

With Kaepernick and Dalton, they were both 2nd round picks taken before the Cards selected in that round. Tannehill was also picked before the Cards chose. Wilson, I want nothing to do with. The league will have him figured out soon enough.

You could argue the Cards could have made a move to trade up, but that falls on Graves and Keim, who run the draft, not Whiz. Plus, everyone of those guys had, and still have, question marks about them. Kaepernick gave the game to the Rams today.

You asked who could the Cardinals have selected and I answered. Not talking about Whiz specifically here.

With the position we were in at QB you absolutely trade up if you have to. Dalton was taken right before we took a RB.

If we had Wilson at QB this year we would still be in the playoff hunt.

Our division competition has done a much better job than we have taking care of the QB position IMO. .

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Wasn't it Whiz who wanted to move up to get Branch and then DWash? It certainly wouldn't have been breaking precedent if Whiz made the case to move up to get one of those guys.

Given that they are both 'D' players, wouldn't you think that someone else made the telling argument to move up? Not to say, mind you, that Whiz wasn't sold on the moves. I'm more inclined to see Whiz's handiwork in the move to draft Skelton.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

You asked who could the Cardinals have selected and I answered. Not talking about Whiz specifically here.

With the position we were in at QB you absolutely trade up if you have to. Dalton was taken right before we took a RB.

If we had Wilson at QB this year we would still be in the playoff hunt.

Our division competition has done a much better job than we have.

Okay, how were the Cards supposed to take them if, as you just pointed out, they were taken before the Cards picked? You could say they should have taken Luck or RGIII too.

 

[PJ1]

CBUS had a detailed post on who was available when the Cards selected over the last number years, and your response in nothing but an after the fact generic list. Mind you, if you have posts calling on the Cards to draft any of the above... Good on you!

I didn't realize CBUS needed a spokesperson. I answered him.

As for you. If Whiz lit an orphanage on fire on Christmas Eve you would defend him so it really is pointless.

 

[Duckjake]

I didn't realize CBUS needed a spokesperson. I answered him.

As for you. If Whiz lit an orphanage on fire on Christmas Eve you would defend him so it really is pointless.

Post of the year.