kerouac9 said:
Any point you may have is now moot, if you think Tyrone Calico is a top 10 #2.......
Sporting News on Boldin negotiations
- Thread starter Totally_Red
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Any point you may have is now moot, if you think Tyrone Calico is a top 10 #2.......
kerouac9
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I think that he has to stay healthy and that he has a lot to prove, but if you look down the roster of #2 WRs around the league, the drop-off is pretty steep after Evans, Anquan, and Porter.Dback Jon said:
I really, really like Tyrone Calico as a prospect, and I think he'll make some noise this season.
Who do you think is better? Jabar Gaffney? Matt Jones? The pickings are pretty slim...
I'm not arguing that he's better than Boldin, but Keary Colbert probably belongs on that list.kerouac9 said:
Anyway, I don't know that Boldin is really a #2 in this offense--at least the way he played in it the second half of last season. He seems more of a 1b receiver. I'm not sure there's a clear delination betwen Fitz and Boldin in that sense.
kerouac9
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Pariah said:
Keary Colbert is definitely in the discussion, but he's too close to Anquan (to me) that I don't think that I'd rather have him than #81. I agree with you that he's probably a Top 5 or 8 #2.
If you're wondering who the #1 option is in this offense, think about whom all the big plays went to last season, who's getting the most money, and who is going to get more TDs over the next two-plus seasons. All signs point to Larry Fitzgerald. Anquan, even after his new deal, is getting paid like a #2 WR. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just how it is.
As a side note, I think that Rod Graves totally got over on Anquan and Rosenhaus in getting the deal completed. It's a great contract for the Cardinals.
kerouac9 said:
TDs dont equate to #1 Kerouac. Sorry they just dont. Also you have no clue who will be Warners favorite target. #1 can be based on who the QB has the most faith in.
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kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Shane H said:
Really? Shane: here's a project for you: find me a #1 WR in the NFL, on any team, that didn't have the most receiving TDs on that team. Fine one.
Good luck with that. There's probably Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzales, but they're essentially #1 WRs in their respective offenses, who don't have anything that approaches "solid" WRs.
kerouac9 said:I think that he has to stay healthy and that he has a lot to prove, but if you look down the roster of #2 WRs around the league, the drop-off is pretty steep after Evans, Anquan, and Porter.
I really, really like Tyrone Calico as a prospect, and I think he'll make some noise this season.
Who do you think is better? Jabar Gaffney? Matt Jones? The pickings are pretty slim...
Haven't ranked them, but as you said, the drop off is steep. I don't think you can fairly lump Evans, Quan with anyone else - but at this point in Calico's career, he is potential, that is it. He may make a good #2, but he has to a) stay healthy, b) get into the game mentally, and then show something on the field.
kerouac9 said:
I can stop this rigth here. Look at the NFL's way of seeing who led the NFL in recieving.
Heres a hint: It doesnt go by TD's so your way of thinking is just a tad skewed. Thats like saying if Fitz has 80 catches and 10 TD's then he is #1 even though Boldin had 95 recptions and 7 TD's in that scenario Boldin would still be #1 CLEARLY!
Clearly a #1 WR will generally lead the team in TDs. But that doesnt mean its a hard and fast rule.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Duckjake said:
Well, Roy is the higher draft pick, with the bigger contract, and (possibly) more talent. He's also more experienced with the personnel and the system.
And what about Carlos Rogers? He's making more money than either of them (possibly put together). I'm betting he'll be the #2 option (split end) and M. Williams will start the season in the slot.
Best case scenario for the Lions is that they end up with a mid-00s version of Steve Smith (Roy Williams) and Mushin Muhammad (Williams). But as of this moment I don't think there's any discussion about who the best wideout on the Detriot Lions is.
Again, even after the extension, Quan is making less money than Fitz. Quan is getting paid like a #2 WR. He got the contract that many people believed was a slap in the face when it was offered to a true #1 in Heinz Ward. None of this means that Anquan is a bad player; I think he's great. I just don't think that he's "T.O. before it went to his head." That's nonsense.
kerouac9
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Shane H said:
That's right, they rank receivers in terms of yardage, don't they? Who had more yards for the Cards last season? Is there a team in the NFL where the #2 WR had more yards than the #1?
kerouac9 said:
Once again your argument has no merit considering that Boldin missed 6 games and was only 160 yards behind Fitz. That would be a lock that Boldin would have surpassed that yardage had he been healthy for the other 6 games. Thanks for supporting my point with that.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Shane H said:
Do you want to go on record saying that Anquan will have more receiving Yds than Fitz this season? Go ahead and say it, if that's what you think. I think you're wrong.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
This who is #1 argument is ********. Fitzgerald is the #1 option in the red zone because he is bigger, has better hands, and has better body control to come down with TDs. Anquan is the primary option in between the 20s where he can catch the ball in space and break tackles and use his strength to pick up 1st downs. However, I do think the odds of Fitz becoming the clear-cut #1 option are better than those of Anquan due to Larry's upside.
I think so, too.Shane H said:
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Shane H said:
All right. Just remind me: which is the one that counts on the scoreboard: receptions or touchdowns?
your talking semantics, and you know it. they all go hand in hand. you can have a WR with 15 TDs yet be on a team with a losing record. So whats your point?kerouac9 said:
kerouac9 said:
So if Boldin puts up 1500 yards but only has 9 TDs, his contibution is less than Fitz's if he puts up 1000 yards but has 15 TDs?
Did Moe Williams have more of an impact for MIN when he had double digit TDs (I think he did, at least) and Bennet had hardly any, but instead did all the heavy lifting between the 10s?
Fitz is a great red-zone target. I would expect him to have more TDs...but I think Boldin is and will be the better overall WR. (that's no knock on Fitz)
Pariah said:
So if Boldin puts up 1500 yards but only has 9 TDs, his contibution is less than Fitz's if he puts up 1000 yards but has 15 TDs?
Did Moe Williams have more of an impact for MIN when he had double digit TDs (I think he did, at least) and Bennet had hardly any, but instead did all the heavy lifting between the 10s?
Fitz is a great red-zone target. I would expect him to have more TDs...but I think Boldin is and will be the better overall WR. (that's no knock on Fitz)
nice post P
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Shane H said:
I don't think you can. Let me take a look... Last season, only T.O. and Marvin Harrison caught 15+ TD passes, and both those teams were in the playoffs.
In 2003, only Randy Moss, with 17, but that team ended up 9-7.
In 2002, no one caught 15 or more TD passes, but the league leaders in TD grabs were T.O. with San Fran (10-6) and Hinz Ward with the Steelers (10-5-1).
I think you're wrong, Shane. Find me one WR who had 15+ TD grabs on a losing team.
kerouac9 said:
Alright now you getting silly. That was an imaginary # odds are on a losing team you will be lucky to find any position with double digit TDs. The point was that you can have individual stats all day long. It dont really mean squat as far as wins and losses in a team sport such as this. I could find you a list of people that have excelled in there positions while being on losing teams if you would really like?
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
If Anquan had 1500 yards but only 9 TDs, it would be really, really sad. If Fitz was able to get 15 TDs in only 1000 yards receiving, that would be incredible. Basically, you're positing things that could never, ever happen.Pariah said:
So if Boldin puts up 1500 yards but only has 9 TDs, his contibution is less than Fitz's if he puts up 1000 yards but has 15 TDs?
Did Moe Williams have more of an impact for MIN when he had double digit TDs (I think he did, at least) and Bennet had hardly any, but instead did all the heavy lifting between the 10s?
Fitz is a great red-zone target. I would expect him to have more TDs...but I think Boldin is and will be the better overall WR. (that's no knock on Fitz)
What if Marcel Shipp ran for 2500 yards but only scored 1 TD while Troy Hambrick rushed for 200 yards but scored 25 TDs? Who would be better? It's stupid.
Honestly, I don't think Anquan will get more than 90 receptions in a season for the remainder of his career. I don't think he'll ever go over 10 TD grabs. There's nothing wrong with that; it's probably best for the Cards if that were the case. I think that you'll see Denny feeding the rock to Fitz all season long, and that they'll finish somewhere in the area of Fitz getting 80 catches and 8-10 TDs and Anquan having 70 catches for 4 TDs and Bryant Johnson getting about 40 catches and 5 TDs.
If Fitz were a TE, your argument would make more sense, but he's the #1 WR on this team, and Denny's Chosen One. We're not talking about a goal line back here, we're talking about a guy who was the #3 overall pick in the 2004 draft with huge upside.
If you still wonder who is the #1 WR on this team, look at the salary cap thread. Who's making the most money? If you get confused, refer back to that thred. Here's the link.
