Sporting News on Boldin negotiations

[Pariah]

If Anquan had 1500 yards but only 9 TDs, it would be really, really sad. If Fitz was able to get 15 TDs in only 1000 yards receiving, that would be incredible. Basically, you're positing things that could never, ever happen.

Really? because just last year Joe Horn caught 11 TDs with 1400 yds, and Isaac Bruce had only 6 with 1300. Marvin Harrison had 15 with only 1100 yards. That's just last season. Seems like it's not impossible to have a scenario for either of these guys afterall.

 

[joeshmo]

Thats funny considering it hasent been updated and Anquan will be the highest paid WR on the team this year and next.

Nope Fitz is still the higher paid receiver this year, next year and every year after that. Fitz will make 500K more then him this year and without having access to my spreadsheet for the 2006 season he will make more then a mill more then boldin next year, and every year after that.

 

[kerouac9]

Really? because just last year Joe Horn caught 11 TDs with 1400 yds, and Isaac Bruce had only 6 with 1300. Marvin Harrison had 15 with only 1100 yards. That's just last season. Seems like it's not impossible to have a scenario for either of these guys afterall.

11 TDs with 1400 yards is a little different than 9 with 1500. You shouldn't have less than 10 TDs with 1200+ yards.

Isaac Bruce is over-the-hill and a #2 WR on his team. What do you want from me? How many yards and TDs did their #1, Torry Holt have?

Marvin Harrison is arguably (and I'd be one who'd argue) the best WR in the NFL. He's one of the few "small" WRs who's also a huge red-zone threat. What does this have to do with anything?

 

[kerouac9]

Nope Fitz is still the higher paid receiver this year, next year and every year after that. Fitz will make 500K more then him this year and without having access to my spreadsheet for the 2006 season he will make more then a mill more then boldin next year, and every year after that.

That's what I thought, as well. And doesn't Fitz get a huge second-tier SB this year, as well (maybe he already got it...)? Thanks for saving me from having to navigate USA Today's salary calculator.

So, basically, Shane's wrong again.

 

[Shane]

Nope Fitz is still the higher paid receiver this year, next year and every year after that. Fitz will make 500K more then him this year and without having access to my spreadsheet for the 2006 season he will make more then a mill more then boldin next year, and every year after that.

then your cap spreadsheet is wrong. Unless Im mistaken Boldins deal said he would earn 5 million in bonus this year and another 5 next year. Math tells me thats approx. 5.6 mill per year counting salary. You only have Fitz making barely over 3 million. What am I missing here?

 

[Shane]

That's what I thought, as well. And doesn't Fitz get a huge second-tier SB this year, as well (maybe he already got it...)? Thanks for saving me from having to navigate USA Today's salary calculator.

So, basically, Shane's wrong again.

Again? what elses was I wrong about? do tell?

 

[40yearfan]

Really? because just last year Joe Horn caught 11 TDs with 1400 yds, and Isaac Bruce had only 6 with 1300. Marvin Harrison had 15 with only 1100 yards. That's just last season. Seems like it's not impossible to have a scenario for either of these guys afterall.

11 TDs with 1400 yards is a little different than 9 with 1500. You shouldn't have less than 10 TDs with 1200+ yards.

Isaac Bruce is over-the-hill and a #2 WR on his team. What do you want from me? How many yards and TDs did their #1, Torry Holt have?

Marvin Harrison is arguably (and I'd be one who'd argue) the best WR in the NFL. He's one of the few "small" WRs who's also a huge red-zone threat. What does this have to do with anything?

:soundsoftapdancing:

 

[joeshmo]

then your cap spreadsheet is wrong. Unless Im mistaken Boldins deal said he would earn 5 million in bonus this year and another 5 next year. Math tells me thats approx. 5.6 mill per year counting salary. You only have Fits makin barely over 3 million. What am I missing here?

Thats a 5mill. signing bonus over 5 years.

And a 5 mill roster bonus next year which will also get pro rated over 5 years.

Boldins cap charge - 1.5 Base + 5mill/5years = 2.5 mill

Fitz cap charge = 3+ mill.

And fitz gets a bonus next year as well. Not sure off the top of my head what it is though.

 

[kerouac9]

then your cap spreadsheet is wrong. Unless Im mistaken Boldins deal said he would earn 5 million in bonus this year and another 5 next year. Math tells me thats approx. 5.6 mill per year counting salary. You only have Fitz making barely over 3 million. What am I missing here?

Well, according to this, Fitz got a $20 million signing bonus, $13.5 of which was paid out last season. That means that he's getting another 6.5 million in bonus money alone this season, doesn't it? Which, I believe, is more than the first SB that Anquan is getting.

 

[joeshmo]

another 6.5 million in bonus money alone[/b]

Not all this season. Spread out more then that. In fact there was no bonus this season. Some of it kicks in, in 2006 and some in 2007.

 

[Shane]

Thats a 5mill. signing bonus over 5 years.

And a 5 mill roster bonus next year which will also get pro rated over 5 years.

Boldins cap charge - 1.5 Base + 5mill/5years = 2.5 mill

Fitz cap charge = 3+ mill.

And fitz gets a bonus next year as well. Not sure off the top of my head what it is though.

Ok thanks Joe. Thats the salary cap math I dont understand.

 

[Pariah]

You shouldn't have less than 10 TDs with 1200+ yards.

Yet, Bruce, Chad Johnson, Donald Driver and your boy Darrell Jackson all did. Seems this isn't as unlikely as you'd make it seem.

Isaac Bruce is over-the-hill and a #2 WR on his team. What do you want from me? How many yards and TDs did their #1, Torry Holt have?

What do I want from you? You're the one who seemed to imply that the only measure for a #1 WR is TDs. I simply said I agreed that Boldin will get more yards than Fitz and that in my opinion he is the better WR. In another thread I expressed my opinion that Fitz and Boldin were more akin to 1a and 1b WRs than #1 and #2. So a better question is: what do you want from me?

BTW, Holt barely met your above criteria--he had 10 TDs with almost 1400 yds.

Marvin Harrison is arguably (and I'd be one who'd argue) the best WR in the NFL. He's one of the few "small" WRs who's also a huge red-zone threat. What does this have to do with anything?

I'm just showing you that it is indeed possible to put up gawdy TDs without gawdy yardage. You said I used an example of things that couldn't happen.

 

[CardinalLaw]

Boldin will not only make the probowl this year, but also prove he is a top 5 WR. The only crappy thing is I can see Rodenthouse pulling a TO and have Boldin hold out again next year possibly. Cause he once again outplayed his contract.

 

[Duckjake]

Originally Posted by kerouac9
You shouldn't have less than 10 TDs with 1200+ yards.

Note that statements like this do not apply to the Cardinals.

Examples: Boston had 1598 yds receiving in 2001 with only 8 TD's.

Sanders led the team in yds receiving in 1998 with 1145 yet only scored 3 TD's for a team that advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Plummer had 17 TD passes that season with only 8 going to the top 2 WR's. (Moore 5 and Sanders 3)

But what do you expect from a franchise whose last rusher to lead his conference in yards was a fullback.

 

[Ryanwb]

Are you kidding? T.O. has gone over 1100 yards receiving the past five years and six of the last seven years. The last time that Terrell didn't score more than 8 TDs was 1999. He's a threat to score a TD every time he touches the ball. If it weren't for Randy Moss, Terrell would be the best WR in the NFL. He makes whatever QB he's playing with better.

Anquan Boldin had one good year, and last year he scored one TD and didn't have an impact in any of the Cards' wins his big rookie year.

The biggest comparison between T.O. and Anquan is that they wear the same number. News flash, buddy, the primary WR in the Valley wears #11. Anquan's being moved back to the slot because he was ineffective on the outside.

Anquan Boldin is probably a Top 5 or 10 #2 WR. Overall, though, I don't know if Anquan Boldin is in the top 25 at his position in the league. Very quickly, here are 20 wideouts all better than Anquan:

1. Randy Moss
2. Terrell Owens
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Javon Walker
5. Torry Holt
6. Hinz Ward
7. Chad Johnson
8. Mushin Muhammed
9. Derrick Mason
10. Rod Smith
11. Lee Evans
12. Darrell Jackson
13. Plaxico Burress
14. Jimmy Smith
15. Andre Johnson
16. Joe Horn
17. Eric Moulds
18. Chris Chambers
19. Roy Williams
20. Larry Fitzgerald

Hope that clears everything up for you.

Oh my sweet lord...... this needs a bump. talk about talking out of the wrong hole. (BTW, where is Steve Smith on this list?)

 

[CardinalLaw]

I love reading Kerouc bash Boldin. I wonder if Boldin has proved he is a #1 WR on some teams yet. Since we already know he is just a top 10 number 2 reciever.

 

[kerouac9]

Oh my sweet lord...... this needs a bump. talk about talking out of the wrong hole. (BTW, where is Steve Smith on this list?)

Man, I guess it takes a big man to bump posts from July 31, 2005 and act like I said them yesterday. I've said multiple times on this board that something's changed with Anquan between this season and last. When I made that list, Steve Smith was coming of a catastrophic knee injury and no one knew how'd he return, which is why he's not on it.

For what it's worth, I still think there are 8-10 guys that I'd rather have than Anquan:

1. Chad Johnson
2. Randy Moss
3. Terrell Owens
4. Steve Smith
5. Torry Holt
6. Hines Ward
7. Darrell Jackson
8. Javon Walker (healthy)
9. Andre Johnson
10. Larry Fitzgerald

 

[Redheart]

Man, I guess it takes a big man to bump posts from July 31, 2005 and act like I said them yesterday. I've said multiple times on this board that something's changed with Anquan between this season and last. When I made that list, Steve Smith was coming of a catastrophic knee injury and no one knew how'd he return, which is why he's not on it.

For what it's worth, I still think there are 8-10 guys that I'd rather have than Anquan:

1. Chad Johnson
2. Randy Moss
3. Terrell Owens
4. Steve Smith
5. Torry Holt
6. Hines Ward
7. Darrell Jackson
8. Javon Walker (healthy)
9. Andre Johnson
10. Larry Fitzgerald

The cue was for you to eat a little crow...not your other foot. Terrel Owens???? Don't you need a "healthy" note across from Darrel Jackson?

You say something changed in Q. Maybe you, K-9, were wrong about Q six months ago, like you are wrong today with that list.

I should think all these posts-from-the-past that keep coming back at you would be a humbling experience.

 

[BACH]

I thought the whole point of a message board was that everyone is entitled to their opinion and free to discuss??

I just think this re-bump is stupid - as in 3rd grade/school yard stupid...

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The cue was for you to eat a little crow...not your other foot. Terrel Owens???? Don't you need a "healthy" note across from Darrel Jackson?

You say something changed in Q. Maybe you, K-9, were wrong about Q six months ago, like you are wrong today with that list.

I should think all these posts-from-the-past that keep coming back at you would be a humbling experience.

you can't humble someone with serious delusions of adequacy...

 

[Dr. Jones]

Man, I guess it takes a big man to bump posts from July 31, 2005 and act like I said them yesterday. I've said multiple times on this board that something's changed with Anquan between this season and last. When I made that list, Steve Smith was coming of a catastrophic knee injury and no one knew how'd he return, which is why he's not on it.

For what it's worth, I still think there are 8-10 guys that I'd rather have than Anquan:

1. Chad Johnson
2. Randy Moss
3. Terrell Owens
4. Steve Smith
5. Torry Holt
6. Hines Ward
7. Darrell Jackson
8. Javon Walker (healthy)
9. Andre Johnson
10. Larry Fitzgerald

I disagree with Andre J, Darrell (Hands of Stone) Jackson, Hines Ward, & Javon Walker. And to a lesser extent, Fitz. Anquan is, IMHO, the superior player from an atletisism (sp?), and Desire standpoint.

Fitz is fine wine, Anquan is the best beer in the world. Hard to pick between either. I just seem to like the blood & guts type of guys.

 

[Pariah]

I thought the whole point of a message board was that everyone is entitled to their opinion and free to discuss??

Who's keeping anyone from expressing their opinions? When you take a strong stand as K9 has done, shouldn't you expect to be called on it if it ends up to be wrong? Or, do you think that one can just spout anything one likes without being held accountable for said opinions?

It's simply a matter of manning up to what you said. If you said it and you're wrong, it's best to say so--or continue expressing the same opinion. Either or, but bumping threads like this is hardly squelching an opinion.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Man, I guess it takes a big man to bump posts from July 31, 2005 and act like I said them yesterday. I've said multiple times on this board that something's changed with Anquan between this season and last. When I made that list, Steve Smith was coming of a catastrophic knee injury and no one knew how'd he return, which is why he's not on it.

For what it's worth, I still think there are 8-10 guys that I'd rather have than Anquan:

1. Chad Johnson
2. Randy Moss
3. Terrell Owens
4. Steve Smith
5. Torry Holt
6. Hines Ward
7. Darrell Jackson
8. Javon Walker (healthy)
9. Andre Johnson
10. Larry Fitzgerald

I agree its pretty petty to keep bumping these threads but after reading this post....well i cant think of a heinous enough punishment for putting Darrell Jackson?! T.O.?! Javin Walker?! Andre Johnson...!? in front of Q

This just makes you seem like a complete goof ball K9...and your ass has Q in the FF league we are in.

Warning: FF rant coming......ANd yes i am bitter i am not in first place when i was winning at the half of the monday night game with Alexander and Jurevicious and you having no one playing. I go to sleep and then im inexplicably tied with you this morning resulting in me now being in 3rd place. What a crock.....Im still not sure what happened and the only thing thats keeping me from throwing my computer through the window this morning is knowing i have the better team and will play you again in the playoffs.....

And Q saved your ass this week....u need to give him some love and quit disrespecting him putting these guys who couldnt hold his jock ahead of him....

 

[BigDavis75]

Man, I guess it takes a big man to bump posts from July 31, 2005 and act like I said them yesterday. I've said multiple times on this board that something's changed with Anquan between this season and last. When I made that list, Steve Smith was coming of a catastrophic knee injury and no one knew how'd he return, which is why he's not on it.

For what it's worth, I still think there are 8-10 guys that I'd rather have than Anquan:

1. Chad Johnson
2. Randy Moss
3. Terrell Owens
4. Steve Smith
5. Torry Holt
6. Hines Ward
7. Darrell Jackson
8. Javon Walker (healthy)
9. Andre Johnson
10. Larry Fitzgerald

I prettty much agree with you here, except that Boldin is probably on par with Walker. Fitz is still a better player IMO, and he has more yardage at this point, doesn't he?

 

[Pariah]

he has more yardage at this point, doesn't he?

A few, with 2 more games than Q.