Summer League 2014

[Joe Mama]

Time is a factor, as well. We've read that teams are adjusting to Frye camping at the 3-point line on offense and keeping their Power Forward or Center down low to rebound and block shots.

Even if the novelty of Frye worked in the past (though not the past half season), the novelty has worn off, leaving the Suns without two big men to match up with other teams, reducing the effectiveness of our remaining big man as an all-around player.

I'm really not sure where you "read that teams are adjusting to Frye camping at the three point line". If anything it's the opposite. If anything, teams probably doing what San Antonio do, which is chase him off of the three point line. In theory that should leave even more space in the middle of the floor for everyone else going to the basket. If I have some time later today I'll queue up the video of his three-point shots from the second half of the season and tell you if that's what happened.

Besides, how does that leave the Phoenix Suns without two big men to match up with other teams? Are you talking about on the offensive glass? On the defensive end Frye isn't going and standing out at the three point line by himself wondering why the player he is guarding isn't following him?

It's not a novelty and it hasn't worn off. Other than the Lakers, I can't think of another team that didn't continue to guard Frye at the 3 point line. A couple of teams guarded him with a smaller player but this idea that they ignored him for a half season is a new one on me. And if you look at the various lineup stats, Frye continued to be central to our victories even once his shot disappeared. More often than not, this team played better when he was on the court. He cost us wins when he wasn't playing well but the team played even worse when he was on the bench.

Steve

see, I knew you and I would start agreeing again quickly. There is a reason why Channing Frye's +/- per 36 are higher than anybody on the team (except Barbosa). There is a reason he has the third highest PPP on the team, despite his second half shooting slump. He was a huge reason for the success of the 2009-10 team that surprised everyone, and the same is true for last year's team.

Joe

 

[slinslin]

The argument with Frye is not how he plays it is the difference of 21M$ caproom or 28M$ caproom.

It totally depends on who is available.

 

[sunsfan88]

If that is the case, wouldn't it make sense to not sign Bledsoe, start Green at Shooting Guard and move Goodwin into the rotation as his backup until he is ready to move up to the starting spot? And sign a strong backup for Dragic at Point Guard.

The alternative is trading Green and moving Goodwin into the backup 2-Guard role, but with Bledsoe's injury history, Goodwin isn't ready for that.

I think regardless, we need to find Goodwin at least 15-20 mins in each game next season. Same with Len.

Players don't develop from sitting the bench all the time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think regardless, we need to find Goodwin at least 15-20 mins in each game next season. Same with Len.

Players don't develop from sitting the bench all the time.

They certainly used to. I'm a strong proponent of a player earning their time. I hope both Goodwin and Len work their way into the lineup this upcoming season but I have no desire to trot them out there if their play hasn't warranted it.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm really not sure where you "read that teams are adjusting to Frye camping at the three point line". If anything it's the opposite. If anything, teams probably doing what San Antonio do, which is chase him off of the three point line. In theory that should leave even more space in the middle of the floor for everyone else going to the basket. If I have some time later today I'll queue up the video of his three-point shots from the second half of the season and tell you if that's what happened.

Besides, how does that leave the Phoenix Suns without two big men to match up with other teams? Are you talking about on the offensive glass? On the defensive end Frye isn't going and standing out at the three point line by himself wondering why the player he is guarding isn't following him?



see, I knew you and I would start agreeing again quickly. There is a reason why Channing Frye's +/- per 36 are higher than anybody on the team (except Barbosa). There is a reason he has the third highest PPP on the team, despite his second half shooting slump. He was a huge reason for the success of the 2009-10 team that surprised everyone, and the same is true for last year's team.

Joe

And there's a reason that the Suns went on their winning streak AFTER benching Frye and taking him out of the starting lineup.

One of the best things that Alvin Gentey ever did.

Notice how we were better off with guys like Robin Lopez, Jason Collins, Dwayne Jones and probably couple other D league players in the starting lineup than Frye.

Not team will ever be a contender with Frye as starter. Hell, you better have at least two top 10 players on the team if you want to even make playoffs with Frye as starter.

Frye should be treated the same way GOAT Popovich treats Matt Bonner. That's the role that fits him best.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The argument with Frye is not how he plays it is the difference of 21M$ caproom or 28M$ caproom.

It totally depends on who is available.

bingo.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Not team will ever be a contender with Frye as starter. Hell, you better have at least two top 10 players on the team if you want to even make playoffs with Frye as starter.

Hyperbole much?

The Suns were 2 games out from making the playoffs in an incredibly tough western conference with Frye as a starter with 0 top 10 players on the team. In the East they would have been the 3rd seed.

 

[Joe Mama]

The argument with Frye is not how he plays it is the difference of 21M$ caproom or 28M$ caproom.

It totally depends on who is available.

Yeah, I agree with this for sure. Please don't get me wrong here. I'm not advocating that we should make him our top priority and give him a huge contract with a bunch of years.

They certainly used to. I'm a strong proponent of a player earning their time. I hope both Goodwin and Len work their way into the lineup this upcoming season but I have no desire to trot them out there if their play hasn't warranted it.

Steve

That's right. I don't think anybody is ready to tank this next season and that's really the only excuse for giving minutes to players who aren't ready just to give them experience. Hell, we have our own NBA D-League affiliate now. Send them there if they need more playing time.

And there's a reason that the Suns went on their winning streak AFTER benching Frye and taking him out of the starting lineup.

One of the best things that Alvin Gentey ever did.

Notice how we were better off with guys like Robin Lopez, Jason Collins, Dwayne Jones and probably couple other D league players in the starting lineup than Frye.

Not team will ever be a contender with Frye as starter. Hell, you better have at least two top 10 players on the team if you want to even make playoffs with Frye as starter.

Frye should be treated the same way GOAT Popovich treats Matt Bonner. That's the role that fits him best.

dude, Channing Frye still played 25-30 minutes per game, and the Suns did every bit as well in those games as the few where he was getting fewer than 20. Besides, I remember Jason Collins starting. It was painful to watch. They worse so much better the second he got out of the game. The one thing you do do though was to reduce the time Amare and Channing Frye were on the court together defensively. I concede that Frye is a very average defender and Amare is among the worst I've ever seen.

Joe

 

[AzStevenCal]

dude, Channing Frye still played 25-30 minutes per game, and the Suns did every bit as well in those games as the few where he was getting fewer than 20. Besides, I remember Jason Collins starting. It was painful to watch. They worse so much better the second he got out of the game. The one thing you do do though was to reduce the time Amare and Channing Frye were on the court together defensively. I concede that Frye is a very average defender and Amare is among the worst I've ever seen.

Joe

Frye used to be a horrible defender but his defense this past season was far better than ever before IMO. He was a good help defender and strong when guarding in space. He's a weak defender down low against the tree trunks but was very effective against the more power players, even when guarding them down low. All told, I'd rate his defense at the four spot as slightly above average. Unfortunately his defense when playing center had to be near the bottom of the league.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Worst case scenario- Markieff Morris, still much better than Frye. Frye's three point shooting and this "ability to spread the floor" is incredibly overrated. Suns could get rid of Frye tomorrow and nobody would miss him next year.

.

I think it is time for Markieff to start. I just want to see him rebound better. Frye could rebound pretty well at times. I don't mind having Frye on the bench for backup at the 4 or 5 and in special situations when you want to spread the floor.

I also wouldn't mind trying Gerald Green in the starting role at sf. He is the most underrated player on this team.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it is time for Markieff to start. I just want to see him rebound better. Frye could rebound pretty well at times. I don't mind having Frye on the bench for backup at the 4 or 5 and in special situations when you want to spread the floor.

I also wouldn't mind trying Gerald Green in the starting role at sf. He is the most underrated player on this team.

This is why the Suns should not pay Frye like a starter. I'd sooner he walk than pay him more than like 3M a season if he opts out, which means he wouldn't be coming back to the Suns if he is chasing the dollar.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is why the Suns should not pay Frye like a starter. I'd sooner he walk than pay him more than like 3M a season if he opts out, which means he wouldn't be coming back to the Suns if he is chasing the dollar.

i'd be okay with Frye at 3 million off the bench. but if he's chasing the money, I'm gonna be shocked if anyone gives a one dimensional big man who plays kinda small guy with a heart condition more scratch then that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This is why the Suns should not pay Frye like a starter. I'd sooner he walk than pay him more than like 3M a season if he opts out, which means he wouldn't be coming back to the Suns if he is chasing the dollar.

Isn't this a moot point? Frye is not opting out this year and so the Suns have to continue to pay him. Am I missing something?

He would be crazy to opt out. No one is going to pay him his present salary with his health history. The only way I could see him making more is if some team like Houston thinks he is the perfect fit and gives him a big one year deal. No one is going to commit to him long term.

 

[elindholm]

Isn't this a moot point? Frye is not opting out this year and so the Suns have to continue to pay him. Am I missing something?

You're missing slinslin's earlier claim that Frye is "99.99% certain" to opt out, which, oddly enough, he didn't want to put any money behind.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You're missing slinslin's earlier claim that Frye is "99.99% certain" to opt out, which, oddly enough, he didn't want to put any money behind.

does anyone ever take anything Slin says seriously? He's posited thoughts about LeBron coming here this summer also. his posts don't need to be taken a grain of salt...then need a bag of it more often then not.

 

[Mainstreet]

Isn't this a moot point? Frye is not opting out this year and so the Suns have to continue to pay him. Am I missing something?

He would be crazy to opt out. No one is going to pay him his present salary with his health history. The only way I could see him making more is if some team like Houston thinks he is the perfect fit and gives him a big one year deal. No one is going to commit to him long term.

I'm not sure it is a moot point. Without digging into older articles, my recollection is that Frye wants security for his future. I agree that it is unlikely Frye would opt of his contract with the Suns unless there is interest from other teams. I just I don't want the Suns to be investing more money in him long term. However, I can see Frye's contract being included in a trade. He is seviceable player and an expiring contract if he does not opt out.

Anyone know when Frye needs to make his decision about opting out?

 

[Joe Mama]

i'd be okay with Frye at 3 million off the bench. but if he's chasing the money, I'm gonna be shocked if anyone gives a one dimensional big man who plays kinda small guy with a heart condition more scratch then that.

Prepare to be shocked. I mean he may not opt out, but if he does he is
going to get a contract starting at $4 million minimum. That's just not that much money for a forward center that can stretch the floor like him. I mean I keep hearing from slin and others here that a maximum contract for Bledsoe wasn't very risky because it's only 4 years averaging $15 million. Even if Channing Frye is coming off the bench for 25 minutes a game a three-year, $12-15 million wouldn't surprise me at all.


Joe

 

[JCSunsfan]

Frye is going to play out his contract and then he will sign a series of one year deals until he retires. Whether those are with the Suns or not will be a year by year decision.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I plan on being in Vegas that weekend. Guess I will catch a game or two.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Prepare to be shocked. I mean he may not opt out, but if he does he is
going to get a contract starting at $4 million minimum. That's just not that much money for a forward center that can stretch the floor like him. I mean I keep hearing from slin and others here that a maximum contract for Bledsoe wasn't very risky because it's only 4 years averaging $15 million. Even if Channing Frye is coming off the bench for 25 minutes a game a three-year, $12-15 million wouldn't surprise me at all.


Joe

Prepare to be even shockeder! I don't think he'll have to take a noticeable pay cut, whether it's with us or someone else.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Prepare to be even shockeder! I don't think he'll have to take a noticeable pay cut, whether it's with us or someone else.

Steve

If Frye gets a longer term contract offer from another team without a noticeable pay cut let him go. Apply the saved money towards Bledsoe, rookies or a less costly veteran.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If Frye gets a longer term contract offer from another team without a noticeable pay cut let him go. Apply the saved money towards Bledsoe, rookies or a less costly veteran.

I could see him agreeing to a slight pay cut to stay but I can't see it being less than a three or four year extension starting at a minimum of five million per. He's due 6.8 this season.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I could see him agreeing to a slight pay cut to stay but I can't see it being less than a three or four year extension starting at a minimum of five million per. He's due 6.8 this season.

Steve

Pay the Morris twins instead or anybody... somebody.

 

[SirStefan32]

I could see him agreeing to a slight pay cut to stay but I can't see it being less than a three or four year extension starting at a minimum of five million per. He's due 6.8 this season.

Steve

Suns would be crazy to agree to that. SOMEBODY will pay him $4-$5M per year, but I hope it's not Phoenix.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Suns would be crazy to agree to that. SOMEBODY will pay him $4-$5M per year, but I hope it's not Phoenix.

reverend!