Suns at Knicks

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I still don't understand why people post this. He can't be traded because it is near impossible with his contract this season.

I assume the person means this summer, but it is still pointless. All Mike has to do is forbid him from taking shots over 12 feet. His other problem is that he keeps avoiding contact rather than forcing it on his drives. If want to justify his salary, he has got to get to the line a lot more.

On defense, Shawn is the victim of the Suns inability to defend the post. Every double team means that someone on the weak side is left open. I would have preferred a straight denial defense across the board rather than leaving guys open all the time.

I rather like his 14 rebounds.

The problems of the Suns offense is that they don't do enough movng without the ball and their passing seems awfully ragged.

I get really irritated by the Suns shooting 3's. Take away JJ's 2 of 4 and Casey's 2 of 4, the rest of the guys shot 3 of 11.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by offset
i would not be upset if we traded marion.

Players will have games where they don't play well. I don't think you trade a guy for having a couple bad games. On the other hand, if you could work a sign & trade with another team for a player who may walk as a FA .....

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I still don't understand why people post this. He can't be traded because it is near impossible with his contract this season.

So, is there a no-trade clause in the contract?

 

[slinslin]

Shawn Marion is shooting like 30% since the trade.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by Wally
So, is there a no-trade clause in the contract?

Marion is a BYC player.

When teams re-sign their veteran free agents under the Larry Bird exception for 20 percent more than their last contract and the team is over the salary cap, the player falls under the BYC category.

If a team with a BYC player wants to trade him straight up to another team that is under the cap, the BYC player's value is cut in half. That is because the team can only receive a player that's worth 50 percent of the first year of the player's new contract (plus 15 percent and $100,000). So if Portland guard Damon Stoudamire -- who falls under BYC and has a first-year number of $9 million -- gets traded for a player, that player can only make a maximum of $5.3 million. Under most circumstances, this would not be a fair trade. A team that might receive a BYC player still has to pay him his full salary.

The quote is from a while ago so the Damon Stoudemire example is no longer vaid but you get the idea.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Wally
So, is there a no-trade clause in the contract?

Chaplin will give you the details, but it has to do with this base year thing. If you trade him, the Suns only get 1/2 of the cap benefit. So unless you trade him to Utah, the salaries don't match up.

Besides, it is silly. The Suns are already short handed with Amare out, Carbakapa in street clothes, Dice out, Googs ineffective, and Lampe not ready for primte time, the Suns are short handed. Right now they only have four guards on the roster and one of them, Jacobsen, is playing SF. Against the Knicks, the Suns only played 9 guys and 2 of them had under 7 minutes.

The Suns need every healthy guy they have.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Shawn Marion though... man, not only did he not have a good night on offense, he let Keith Van Horn just torch him!

Sorry, I wasn't able to watch the game, but didn't Shawn play pf tonight, and therefore had Thomas as his primary defensive assignment?

I figured it was CJ that was being torched.

Just wondering.

 

[JerkFace]

maybe marion will turn it around, i just don't like how he's played since the trade. instead of stepping it up, like everyone else, his game has taken a few steps back.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Chaplin will give you the details, but it has to do with this base year thing. If you trade him, the Suns only get 1/2 of the cap benefit. So unless you trade him to Utah, the salaries don't match up.

Besides, it is silly. The Suns are already short handed with Amare out, Carbakapa in street clothes, Dice out, Googs ineffective, and Lampe not ready for primte time, the Suns are short handed. Right now they only have four guards on the roster and one of them, Jacobsen, is playing SF. Against the Knicks, the Suns only played 9 guys and 2 of them had under 7 minutes.

The Suns need every healthy guy they have.

How about it Chap?

I agree we need healthy bodies & don't think trading Marion would be a good idea with the exception of if we could get an exceptional player in return. I believe Marion is one of the better playes in the NBA at his position, but there are others who could make this team better. If he would just stop shooting those damn 3's and would not try to avoid contact, I wouldn't be saying a word.

I'm not up on all the financial angles and I haven't been much in favor of going for Kobe - It's probably been hashed out too much already, but a sign & trade for some FA seems like it may work.

 

[Chaplin]

Wally, see SirChaz's post at the end of the last page. I must admit I'm not too well versed on the CBA, but it has to do with his BYC status.

It's not that we don't want to trade him, it's that we can't. (Although I also find it difficult to believe that the Suns actually want to trade Marion)

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by SirChaz
Marion is a BYC player.



The quote is from a while ago so the Damon Stoudemire example is no longer vaid but you get the idea.

Now I understand, but it doesn't make sense

 

[George O'Brien]

I still don't understand why Mike D'Antoni doesn't just stop Shawn from shooting jumpers. He may not be hiiting his close shots, but at least he's there to get a rebound.

I realize that it is impossible to implement an entirely new offense in the middle of the season. The offense is only a slight variation on what FJ was using except that it looks different without Marbury dribbling around for 15 seconds.

Next year the Suns need to completely overhaul their offense. They need to look at creating a pure high post offense designed to get the ball to cutters, run more screens and picks for shooters like JJ and Casey, and to run back screens for Amare. Shawn should not be shooting many jumpers and the should be trying to draw fouls by going hard to the basket.

The Suns should get another high post center and use White as a backup PF in the low block. Teaching him to catch the ball would nice too.

Eventually, this is the kind of offense that would make best use of Lampe at center.

 

[jbeecham]

Did anyone hear why Zarko was in street clothes tonight?

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by jbeecham
Did anyone hear why Zarko was in street clothes tonight?

Poor shooting?

Nothing was said when I was watching TV.

 

[Chaplin]

Hopefully he was just resting his wrist. With the way he's been playing, maybe it was a good idea.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I still don't understand why Mike D'Antoni doesn't just stop Shawn from shooting jumpers. He may not be hiiting his close shots, but at least he's there to get a rebound.

I agree, wide open shots are fine but Shawn should not be creating from 23 ft.

The Suns should get another high post center and use White as a backup PF in the low block. Teaching him to catch the ball would nice too.

Eventually, this is the kind of offense that would make best use of Lampe at center.

Or Zarko.

 

[Chaplin]

Z apparently fell on both arms during the Washington game and reaggravated the wrist injury.

 

[elindholm]

Hmm. Given Stoudemire's and Cabarkapa's inability to stay healthy, Camby might be a good fit for this team after all.

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by jbeecham
Did anyone hear why Zarko was in street clothes tonight?

Yeah, that brick shot from the line bounced back and nailed him in the wrist.

Talk about bad luck!

 

[sly fly]

Another thing about Zarko. This kid is so woefully underdeveloped for the NBA it's not even funny.

If he doesn't develop his body, he's going to be slaughtered. And, will NEVER get through a season without an assortment of injuries.

I'm a bit worried, because he's not 18. He's had time to develop, but obviously has chosen not to. If he doesn't come into camp 20 lbs. heavier... that will be a big disappointment.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by sly fly
Another thing about Zarko. This kid is so woefully underdeveloped for the NBA it's not even funny.

If he doesn't develop his body, he's going to be slaughtered. And, will NEVER get through a season without an assortment of injuries.

I'm a bit worried, because he's not 18. He's had time to develop, but obviously has chosen not to. If he doesn't come into camp 20 lbs. heavier... that will be a big disappointment.

WTH are you talking about? Zarko is a rookie in the NBA. I don't know what lack of development you are talking about.
I don't think he is that far off. He clearly has NBA talent.

He needs to get tougher and get used to NBA speed defense.

Peja and Dirk looked pretty unimpressive when they were rookies as well.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SirChaz
WTH are you talking about? Zarko is a rookie in the NBA. I don't know what lack of development you are talking about.
I don't think he is that far off. He clearly has NBA talent.

He needs to get tougher and get used to NBA speed defense.

Peja and Dirk looked pretty unimpressive when they were rookies as well.

He's talking about his "skinniness".

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Shawn Marion though... man, not only did he not have a good night on offense, he let Keith Van Horn just torch him!

Nope. Casey was matched up against Van Horn.

He might've scored 15, but he gave up 30. I don't blame him however, you have to blame the coaching staff for that ridiculous matchup (6'5 Casey vs. 6'10 Van Horn).

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by SirChaz
WTH are you talking about? Zarko is a rookie in the NBA. I don't know what lack of development you are talking about.
I don't think he is that far off. He clearly has NBA talent.

He needs to get tougher and get used to NBA speed defense.

Peja and Dirk looked pretty unimpressive when they were rookies as well.

Yeah, not talking about his skills.

But, his body prevents him from doing things he attempts to do. You CAN'T swoop in with the ball outstretched in you palm... and not expect to draw contact. The word is out on Zarko. Opponents will not let him do anything without giving him a couple love taps.

Plus, his confidence takes a dive when he's thrown off his game. You can see the fear in his eyes when it's low (at the line). Believe me, defenders are like sharks on blood when they see that look.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by sly fly
Yeah, not talking about his skills.

But, his body prevents him from doing things he attempts to do. You CAN'T swoop in with the ball outstretched in you palm... and not expect to draw contact. The word is out on Zarko. Opponents will not let him do anything without giving him a couple love taps.

Plus, his confidence takes a dive when he's thrown off his game. You can see the fear in his eyes when it's low (at the line). Believe me, defenders are like sharks on blood when they see that look.

Zarko is like most Euro big men - skilled but not very strong. I seems awfully clear that the Europeans call fouls on incidental contact much more than the NBA, which is why the Europeans emphasize quickness rather than strength.

As for the word being out to hit him, good grief they hit everyone and usually get away with. Zarko will have to work on his strength to be able to handle it, but he is no different tha Dirk in that sense.

Wrist injuries are especially difficult for shooters. It has been obvious that that it bothers him and it really hurts his entire game. He may not be much help this season, but I expect he will be fine next season and hopefully a lot stronger.

The one area I am concerned about his his defense. For a guy whose legs are fine, I would think they would be drilling him on defense all the time. They need to have a guy who can defend against really tall shooters.