Suns, Eric Bledsoe Far Apart In Talks

[Chaz]

Who is ignoring that? Let's not overblow the signing either. According to the Suns the entire reason for creating the most cap space was to sign stars that would change the face of the franchise. The Suns were talking about getting two. How many did we manage to get? I am not saying he is a slouch. He is a 20 Point a night guy but he isn't going to change the face of the franchise. He is a good piece to add to your franchise but that is not what the Suns had in mind or what they were talking about for a year leading up to this free agency period.

No. The reason for creating cap space was to have flexibility to capitalize on opportunities should they arise.
You are knocking them for not having opportunities.

Besides LeBron is there anyone they should have signed at the money they signed for?

 

[BC867]

We play in the West, that's not our fault. You're giving them a C based on geography, I'm giving them a B based on performance.

Where we are is what we have to deal with. It is a fact of life. And of the Suns. The rest is theoretical.

Grading them based upon a Conference whom we see less of isn't going to get us where we want to be.

 

[JCSunsfan]

No. The reason for creating cap space was to have flexibility to capitalize on opportunities should they arise.
You are knocking them for not having opportunities.

Besides LeBron is there anyone they should have signed at the money they signed for?

They went for every opportunity they had. I am not sure what else they could have done. The next best thing now, is resign Bledsoe.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Where we are is what we have to deal with. It is a fact of life. And of the Suns. The rest is theoretical.

Grading them based upon a Conference whom we see less of isn't going to get us where we want to be.

I would give them an A based upon their opportunities. Usually in a grading system you look at what is POSSIBLE and then give a grade based upon how much of what is POSSIBLE is reached.

A C grade basically says that the max they could possibly get to begin with was a C+.

Fans expectations are often so unrealistic.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Where we are is what we have to deal with. It is a fact of life. And of the Suns. The rest is theoretical.

Grading them based upon a Conference whom we see less of isn't going to get us where we want to be.

This would have some validity if the ONLY goal was to make the playoffs.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

Fans expectations are often so unrealistic.

Not only unrealistic, but short-sighted. One thing that frustrated me as a Manager is that so few people understand the term "long-term" vision, let alone understand how it is applied. Second thing that frustrates me is that people don't recognize just how bad of a situation they are in.

Suns had no assets, their salary situation was bad, and their GM was terrible.

They hired a good, young coach and a GM.

They turned Louis Scola into a promising, young, athletic center and one incredibly athletic guard who can flat-out score. They turned Gortat (who was likely leaving anyway) into a nice expiring contract and a draft pick. They turned Dudley into Bledsoe (we'll see what happens with him.)

Many players had career years, they've developed Dragic into an All NBA player, and they drafted some promising young players. Len, Goodwin, and Warren have a lot of potential to be solid NBA rotation players at the very least.

They have refused to overpay, they got rid of bad contracts, and they are in a very good place when it comes to their payroll.

If I were brought into a failing organization, this is exactly what I would have done. It takes time, and you have to take small steps to get where you want to be. You have to have the right leadership in place and make sure that the entire leadership team is on the same page. You have to have assets to be able to trade for "Stars." You cannot pull assets out of your behind. You draft good prospects and you develop them, along with your current players. You get rid of bad contracts and replace them with good contract while developing those players.

If I am driving from Pennsylvania to Florida, I cannot possibly expect to teleport. I have to get to Maryland, Virginia, down through the two Carolina, and Georgia before I get to Florida.

I don't understand why these concepts are so difficult for people to grasp.

 

[Covert Rain]

No. The reason for creating cap space was to have flexibility to capitalize on opportunities should they arise.
You are knocking them for not having opportunities.

Besides LeBron is there anyone they should have signed at the money they signed for?

Nonsense. Then end game is to sign stars. If it was just about creating flexibility they would be trying to have the most cap space every single year. The Suns were all over the radio (including Sarver) talking about how this free agency period would allow them to sign big names. So, I am not dinging them for the lack of opportunities. I am dinging them for the lack of results that last two times we had this much cap space. The perennial contenders in this league always seem to make opportunities or at least attract the big names.

It was the exact same story the last time the Suns had a ton of cap space and ended up with zilch. I have to give them credit for not wasting the cap space just to use it like they did the last time though. That probably has much to do with the recent FO moves. I don't know if we will ever recover our reputation under Sarver. If not, we have to force things by pulling off trades to acquire big talent or hope we land a lower pick and draft correctly.

 

[Chaz]

Please show me where they said this. The cap space allowed them to have the ability to make offers. An ability they did not have before. You are blaming them for James choosing Cleveland basically.

You are dinging them for failing to meet goals that you set for them that they failed to achieve.

They always said they would be patient and wait for the right deal to come along.

 

[Covert Rain]

Please show me where they said this. The cap space allowed them to have the ability to make offers. An ability they did not have before. You are blaming them for James choosing Cleveland basically.

You are dinging them for failing to meet goals that you set for them that they failed to achieve.

They always said they would be patient and wait for the right deal to come along.

I think we all know what cap space allows them to do. The entire purpose of having cap space was to get big names. That is not debatable. I never said they guaranteed it which is impossible to do.

You are damn right I am dinging them for not meeting goals. That's how life works. You are judged on your results not your intentions. If this team rips off a few titles in the next 10 years nobody is going to care about all the intentions.

This franchise hasn't won a title either despite some many good runs. I loved many of those teams but it doesn't change the fact this team failed to win any titles. If they fail to attract any major free agents or pull of any trades, I do hold the team accountable for that. Fans should. If not...good luck in accepting mediocrity.

 

[Chaz]

I think we all know what cap space allows them to do. The entire purpose of having cap space was to get big names. That is not debatable. I never said they guarantee it which is impossible to do.

You are damn right I am dinging them for not meeting goals. That's how life works. You are judged on your results not your intentions. If this team rips off a few titles in the next 10 years nobody is going to care about all the intentions.

This franchise hasn't won a title either despite some many good runs. I loved many of those team but it doesn't change the fact this team failed to win any titles.

You still didn't answer the question.

Who was the big star that they failed to get this summer? What exactly was the goal that they failed to achieve? Besides James I don't know of any others that they tried to get in FA that they failed to.

 

[Covert Rain]

You still didn't answer the question.

Who was the big star that they failed to get this summer? What exactly was the goal that they failed to achieve? Besides James I don't know of any others that they tried to get in FA that they failed to.

Dear Lord. Any big star. The Suns goal wasn't to create cap space so that they could just sign mediocre players and fill out the roster. Their goal was to create cap space in the hope that they could pull something off and land a couple huge names or at the very least one. It didn't have to be a straight up signing. They just needed the room to pull of something.

If you are suggesting otherwise, this conversation is moot. Nobody clears cap space like that without that intent unless the team is trying to cut payroll for financial reasons. If that wasn't the intention the Suns never would have contacted LeBron's reps. If they had no intention of landing a big name...they wouldn't have bothered.

 

[SirStefan32]

Dear Lord. Any big star. The Suns goal wasn't to create cap space so that they could just sign mediocre players and fill out the roster. Their goal was to create cap space in the hope that they could pull something off and land a couple huge names or at the very least one.

It didn't have to be a straight up signing. If you are suggesting otherwise, this conversation is moot.

Stars don't grow on trees! You need to have assets, whether they are established assets (Bledsoe, Dragic, Thomas even to some degree), young prospects (Len, Plumlee, Goodwin, Warren), or picks.

Love went to the Cavs because of James, but even if you take him out of the picture, they had better assets to trade than the Suns did. Same things applies to the Warriors. Rockets had better assets when they went after Harden than the Suns did. You can't just acquire these stars out of thin air. You have to have assets to use in order to acquire them.

You can't go from having no assets to having enough assets to trade for a star in one year. Hell, probably not even two or three years.

 

[Covert Rain]

Stars don't grow on trees! You need to have assets, whether they are established assets (Bledsoe, Dragic, Thomas even to some degree), young prospects (Len, Plumlee, Goodwin, Warren), or picks.

Love went to the Cavs because of James, but even if you take him out of the picture, they had better assets to trade than the Suns did. Same things applies to the Warriors. Rockets had better assets when they went after Harden than the Suns did. You can't just acquire these stars out of thin air. You have to have assets to use in order to acquire them.

You can't go from having no assets to having enough assets to trade for a star in one year. Hell, probably not even two or three years.

Don't disagree with any of that. However, ultimately that is what we should grade this team on. It's ability to win titles, attract free agents, pull of trades and draft well. What else is there? I mean if we judged this team on pure intentions....well...I guess this is the best franchise ever.

I get it. Things are not easy. We can't just snap our fingers and get the guy we want. However, as fans shouldn't we judge our team on the end results? If not...what else?

 

[Chaz]

Dear Lord. Any big star. The Suns goal wasn't to create cap space so that they could just sign mediocre players and fill out the roster. Their goal was to create cap space in the hope that they could pull something off and land a couple huge names or at the very least one.

It didn't have to be a straight up signing. If you are suggesting otherwise, this conversation is moot. Nobody clears cap space like that without that intent unless the team is trying to cut payroll for financial reasons. If that wasn't the intention the Suns never would have contacted LeBron's reps. If they had no intention of landing a big name...they wouldn't have bothered.

You have to have an actual target to miss it.

"Any big star" doesn't cut it. Signing "any big star" and then being worse happens all the time.

The goal of the organization and the reason for have cap space is to improve the team. Getting a big name may be part of that in the time frame you are talking about but without an actual name it can't be considered a failure.
They failed to get James or Love. I judge them on that accordingly.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Dear Lord. Any big star. .

Name someone that they should have gotten. Reality man. Join it.

 

[Covert Rain]

You have to have an actual target to miss it.

"Any big star" doesn't cut it. Signing "any big star" and then being worse happens all the time.

The goal of the organization and the reason for have cap space is to improve the team. Getting a big name may be part of that in the time frame you are talking about but without an actual name it can't be considered a failure.
They failed to get James or Love. I judge them on that accordingly.

Yes and that target was to get stars. If you are saying that wasn't a target I don't know what to tell you. Saying they are creating cap space to improve the team is like saying the sky is blue. Ofcourse that was a goal. To suggest well...we have all this cap space but we have no intention of trying to use it to land a star is laughable. That sounds like a PR comment the team puts out there to not get fans hopes up. Heck that is the smart thing to say but that is not reality.

You or I have no idea how many inquiries they made about trades or trying to acquire other players. You NEVER hear about all of them because sometimes calls go unanswered.

Even suggesting the Suns never had such intentions, didn't try or are continuing to try is ludicrous unless this FO is completely inept.

 

[Chaz]

Yes and that target was to get stars. If you are saying that wasn't a target I don't know what to tell you. Saying they are creating cap space to improve the team is like saying the sky is blue. Ofcourse that was a goal. To suggest well...we have all this cap space but we have no intention of trying to use it to land a star is laughable. That sounds like a PR comment the team puts out there to not get fans hopes up. Heck that is the smart thing to say but that is not reality.

You or I have no idea how many inquiries they made about trades or trying to acquire other players. You NEVER hear about all of them because sometimes calls go unanswered.

Even suggesting the Suns never had such intentions, didn't try or are continuing to try is ludicrous unless this FO is completely inept.

They targeted James and Love.

I don't see anyone else available I really wanted them to go after. I can't say it was a failure not to get Gasol or Anthony.

You can't just create some unrealistic goal and then say that the front office isn't doing a good job just because they failed to meet it.

 

[Superbone]

Hey, we didn't get LeBron and Love. We failed! F-.

 

[Chaz]

They failed to get Durant. They called OKC and got hung up on.

I wish this front office would do their job for once. /s

 

[Covert Rain]

They targeted James and Love.

I don't see anyone else available I really wanted them to go after. I can't say it was a failure not to get Gasol or Anthony.

You can't just create some unrealistic goal and then say that the front office isn't doing a good job just because they failed to meet it.

So they did target stars. Which is exactly what the cap space was being created to do. That was the goal. To land some big names to change the franchise and put us over the top. It might not have been their only goal but still a goal.

When you fail to get said level of player why shouldn't they be judged on that? You seem to be saying they should be judged on their intentions and giving it the good old college try.

They might still be making calls to land high impact players. I hope so. How is that an unrealistic goal? Why shouldn't we judge the team on results year in and year out? Who goes around judging on intentions?

Just because you TRY doesn't mean you are doing your job. If that was the case we all would have A's for doing our jobs. That's ridiculous. Many people give their jobs 100% but that doesn't mean they still don't suck at it. I managed staff for years. If I didn't rate people based on results I wouldn't have lasted very long in management.

 

[Chaz]

So they did target stars. Which is exactly what the cap space was being created to do. That was the goal. To land some big names to change the franchise and put us over the top. It might not have been their only goal but still a goal.

Yes, but not just any big name.

All I am saying is that I cannot say that the front office is doing a poor job simply because they failed to acquire big name talent this summer. They may in fact be doing a good job because they passed on using the cap space to acquire a "big star" this summer.

You seem to be judging their performance as a front office on a single metric.

They have said repeatedly that they will be patient and wait for the right piece but that doesn't seem to fit your pre-defined time frame for using the cap space they now have.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes, but not just any big name.

All I am saying is that I cannot say that the front office is doing a poor job simply because they failed to acquire big name talent this summer. They may in fact be doing a good job because they passed on using the cap space to acquire a "big star" this summer.

You seem to be judging their performance as a front office on a single metric.

They have said repeatedly that they will be patient and wait for the right piece but that doesn't seem to fit your pre-defined time frame for using the cap space they now have.

OK, now I understand more of what you are trying to say. However, it's not one metric as you say. Trades, drafting, signing of free agents, winning titles the ability to attract players, retaining players are not a single metric. They are multiple.

Besides the topic here was free agency. Not their overall record, their offense or defense. Also, I am judging the Suns on their ability to do said things in the Saver era. Again...not one single sample. Can you say the Sarver era has been anything but a massive disappointment? 10 years later what has he done in this area? Why can't we judge him on that?

Having said that I give him all the credit in the world for trying to change things up in the front office. However, what does that tell you? Sarver knows too his track record sucks. If Sarver acknowledges the Suns poor performance in this area why can't we?

Proof is in the results. Until the Suns DEMONSTRATE they can pull in top talent and be a destination....how can you rate them well in this area?

 

[SirStefan32]

Don't disagree with any of that. However, ultimately that is what we should grade this team on. It's ability to win titles, attract free agents, pull of trades and draft well. What else is there? I mean if we judged this team on pure intentions....well...I guess this is the best franchise ever.

I get it. Things are not easy. We can't just snap our fingers and get the guy we want. However, as fans shouldn't we judge our team on the end results? If not...what else?

If I fired every employee who wasn't meeting expectations in one month, I would have missed out on some great people. You can't expect people to go from zero to hero in a day, a week, or even a month. Same applies to basketball.

 

[Covert Rain]

If I fired every employee who wasn't meeting expectations in one month, I would have missed out on some great people. You can't expect people to go from zero to hero in a day, a week, or even a month. Same applies to basketball.

I have NEVER done that either. However, if it takes 10 years (the amount of time Sarver has been in control) to judge someone on their track record...I would say you probably shouldn't be a manager. Sarver has had 10 years on this team to prove he can attract big talent, pull off some major moves and make Phoenix a destination. How has he done?

 

[sunsfan88]

Monroe hasn't take the QO. He said he's "definitely willing to"...which in other words, he's bluffing until he does.

"Anonymous" sources reporting his intent isn't Monroe signing the QO.

and yet a day later, all we've seen is Van Gundy say he's heard nothing about this and Monroe has yet to sign the QO. In other words... nothing has happened to substantiate this report.

In other words...nothing has been decided and he's using the threat to sign the qualifying offer as leverage to get a better deal.

While leaving himself another full month for to negotiate. It's beyond ridiculous that you're arguing this point. It makes a HUGE difference if he signs it now or in a month. If he signs it now, he's locking himself into a huge risky one year deal. If he waits, the Pistons can still up their offer... Thus, this is all negotiating. What NBA or NFL player waits a month before signing a contract just....because?

all of this is complete speculation...just like Monroe is going to sign the QO...and hasn't, nor has he apparently told Detroit that according to Van Gundy.

in other words, much ado about nothing.

you're not serious with your last question, right? The difference is he signs it now is that there's NO CHANCE he gets a better deal and if he doesn't sign it now, he can keep playing chicken at the bargaining table. this isn't that difficult to understand.

I would love to play poker with you sometime, you seem to have no idea what bluffing even is. Threatening to sign the QO is a negotiating tactic. Once he signs it he has no chance of getting a bigger offer from Detroit.

Lol there:

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Detroit restricted free agent Greg Monroe has signed the qualifying offer, league source tells Yahoo Sports.

Are you happy? Just like I told you weeks ago, this was a done deal then. No reporter is just gonna put out BS to bluff or whatever it was. This wasn't TMZ reporting it, it was USA Today which reported weeks ago that Monroe told Pistons he was gonna sign it. It was OBVIOUS back then that Monroe would sign the QO. I have no clue why we were even arguing about it.

And please don't tell me that Adrian Woj isn't reliable enough for yall...there's nobody more reliable than him to report on basketball related issues.

And Azlen sure bud, let's set up that game but I got a feeling you don't wanna play anymore