Suns, Eric Bledsoe Far Apart In Talks

[AzStevenCal]

What I meant is that if the rumor is to simply trade Bledsoe in a straight trade, it's going to do nothing to motivate him to sign here. I don't think at this point Bledsoe cares what the Suns do or don't do unless it's accompanied by the money he wants.

In terms of the sign and trade, as stated above, I think if you are going to use any ploy to get him to understand his own value....you encourage his agent to seek a sign and trade scenario for the money he is asking for. It will never happen IMO. I don't think any team wants Bledsoe bad enough to figure out a sign and trade scenario for the max.

Trading him straight up for whatever you can get is moving on. It might be the only viable option at this point. I agree that letting him walk for nothing isn't acceptable but trading him for something is better than nothing.

We don't need bodies, we have plenty of them. The last thing we need is 15 million dollars worth of players and he's not going to sign for 8 million to make it easy on us.

Bledsoe is a star or a star in the making. If we can't get something that rivals that in value we're better off letting him sign his QO and walk at the end of the season. I'd rather have the flexibility than a minor upgrade at one of our weaker positions. Of course, I'd rather have a huge upgrade at one of our weaker positions but that's not likely to happen.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

We don't need bodies, we have plenty of them. The last thing we need is 15 million dollars worth of players and he's not going to sign for 8 million to make it easy on us.

Bledsoe is a star or a star in the making. If we can't get something that rivals that in value we're better off letting him sign his QO and walk at the end of the season. I'd rather have the flexibility than a minor upgrade at one of our weaker positions. Of course, I'd rather have a huge upgrade at one of our weaker positions but that's not likely to happen.

Steve

This is a great point and one I fully agree with. Don't just get something to get something. It has to be meaningful otherwise let him walk.

 

[Errntknght]

I think they'll wind up signing a two year deal for 25 million, which gives the Suns an opportunity to find a good trade or discover he really is worth the max - much as I like him I haven't seen that yet. For Eric its not as risky as taking QO and if he's as good as his agent tells him he is, he'll get a chance to prove it. Damn the Cavs for overpaying Irving because Bled is probably as good as him. I'm sure Cleveland wanted to max him out so they could tell themselves they have the second best PG in the league.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think they'll wind up signing a two year deal for 25 million, which gives the Suns an opportunity to find a good trade or discover he really is worth the max - much as I like him I haven't seen that yet. For Eric its not as risky as taking QO and if he's as good as his agent tells him he is, he'll get a chance to prove it. Damn the Cavs for overpaying Irving because Bled is probably as good as him. I'm sure they wanted to max him out so they could tell themselves they had the second best PG in the league.

I like Bledsoe more than most here but I'd be tempted to let him walk rather than do a two year deal. Unless we were confident we could trade him for real value during this contract, we'd be locked in for an overpayment for two years and then we'd be right back at it. To keep him then would mean another overpayment as the TV dollars would be kicking in and salaries are expected to rise dramatically. I hold firm, take the QO or sign a 4 year deal we can live with.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think they'll wind up signing a two year deal for 25 million, which gives the Suns an opportunity to find a good trade or discover he really is worth the max - much as I like him I haven't seen that yet. For Eric its not as risky as taking QO and if he's as good as his agent tells him he is, he'll get a chance to prove it. Damn the Cavs for overpaying Irving because Bled is probably as good as him. I'm sure Cleveland wanted to max him out so they could tell themselves they have the second best PG in the league.

I think you are right about Irving. Bledsoe can't get over the fact that Kyrie makes more than him, even if Kyrie is significantly overpaid.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Kyrie Irving is very overpaid. Remember though, this is sports but it's also entertainment. Kyrie is much higher profile than Bledsoe and that had a lot to do with his contract. He is a ROY winner, 2 time All Star with an All Star MVP to his credit. On the court, Eric is a better player (IMO) but to the world, Kyrie is the bigger star.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

How can you trade him straight up? Its a sign and trade or nothing. Not sure what you are suggesting here. There are only three options here:

1. Take the QO offer. Its obvious that Bledsoe does not want to do that or his agent would be threatening that already.
2. Sign and trade. Not likely that he can get anywhere close to the money he wants.
3. Negotiate with the Suns.

3 hasn't happened, the agent is now pushing for #2 I assume. The Suns are saying fine, we will be as cooperative as makes sense for us. Go for it. Work out a reasonable win-win and we will do it. Who knows. maybe something will come of it. But I doubt it. There are going to be lots of team that will make offers. "Will give you (Nash, Nene, David Lee, Eric Gordon, Josh Smith, etc)." But the Suns will say politely, we do not want those players (even for free).

He is a restricted free agent but I was assuming he would sign the qualifying offer. What I mean is that let him sign the qualifying offer and trade him for something in return knowing that he is going to walk. Once he signs it, he is going to be gone no matter what.

We don't need bodies, we have plenty of them. The last thing we need is 15 million dollars worth of players and he's not going to sign for 8 million to make it easy on us.

Bledsoe is a star or a star in the making. If we can't get something that rivals that in value we're better off letting him sign his QO and walk at the end of the season. I'd rather have the flexibility than a minor upgrade at one of our weaker positions. Of course, I'd rather have a huge upgrade at one of our weaker positions but that's not likely to happen.

Steve

I didn't say we needed bodies but those bodies can be used to package players for a possible trade. The reality is if he doesn't come back to the table the likely scenario is he signs the qualifying offer. No team is going to fork over the money he is asking for in a sign and trade. That scenario is out IMO.

That leaves three. He signs the QO and we trade him, he signs the QO and just walks or he returns to the table and signs for around what we offered.

I honestly think that he thinks he can get more in the open market after this year. Even if it he doesn't....there is no way he comes back here because I am sure he is going to perceive it as the Suns slighted him.

Cap space flexibility has not allowed us to attack "stars" the last two times we had major cap space. As JCSunsfan said, just letting him walk is unacceptable. If the Suns truly want to replace someone of his talent it's going to likely have to come through a trade or the draft.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He is a restricted free agent but I was assuming he would sign the qualifying offer. What I mean is that let him sign the qualifying offer and trade him for something in return knowing that he is going to walk. Once he signs it, he is going to be gone no matter what.

This doesn't make much sense to me. He wants money. If we trade him on the QO he has to agree to the deal and his new team would need to be able to create the cap room to sign him outright at the end of the season. There won't be a lot of teams out there with 15 million available and we'd have the same issue about compensation for us. I think the only way we get anything for him is to reach an agreement with him as a UFA in a sign and trade once the QO expires. I could be wrong but I think his Bird rights are still intact in that situation.

I honestly think that he thinks he can get more in the open market after this year. Even if it he doesn't....there is no way he comes back here.

Cap space flexibility has not allowed us to attack "stars" the last two times we had major cap space.

Other players have gone this route and still remained with their team. Granted, there is no logic to taking the QO and then remaining with us. At least no logic from the players perspective (as opposed to the Agent's POV).

Cap space flexibility has not allowed us to attack "stars" the last two times we had major cap space

Having flexibility is better than not having it. I'd hope we're not stupid enough to just waste it simply because we weren't able to use it effectively a couple times in the past.

Steve

 

[KloD]

He is a restricted free agent but I was assuming he would sign the qualifying offer. What I mean is that let him sign the qualifying offer and trade him for something in return knowing that he is going to walk. Once he signs it, he is going to be gone no matter what.



I didn't say we needed bodies but those bodies can be used to package players for a possible trade. The reality is if he doesn't come back to the table the likely scenario is he signs the qualifying offer. No team is going to fork over the money he is asking for in a sign and trade. That scenario is out IMO.

That leaves three. He signs the QO and we trade him, he signs the QO and just walks or he returns to the table and signs for around what we offered.

I honestly think that he thinks he can get more in the open market after this year. Even if it he doesn't....there is no way he comes back here because I am sure he is going to perceive it as the Suns slighted him.

Cap space flexibility has not allowed us to attack "stars" the last two times we had major cap space. As JCSunsfan said, just letting him walk is unacceptable. If the Suns truly want to replace someone of his talent it's going to likely have to come through a trade or the draft.

His value will be almost zero in a trade. He will have the right to decline any trade and his salary is so low (in NBA terms) that we could only get a scrub or a rookie in return if he accepted a trade.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I doubt we trade him on the QO. No team is going to want to give up something for him when they can sign him as easily at the end of the year. If he signs the QO offer, we are in for an weird uncomfortable year with Eric Bledsoe, and it will not be good for the locker room.

 

[elindholm]

There are going to be lots of team that will make offers. "Will give you (Nash, Nene, David Lee, Eric Gordon, Josh Smith, etc)." But the Suns will say politely, we do not want those players (even for free).

I realize that your list was just for illustrative purposes, but I would gladly take David Lee. Sure, he's overpaid and an incomplete player, but he gives the Suns something they sorely lack, and his contract is only two more years.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think the only way we get anything for him is to reach an agreement with him as a UFA in a sign and trade once the QO expires. I could be wrong but I think his Bird rights are still intact in that situation.

I lifted this from the NBA Cap Rules site:

Under the current CBA a player receives the same contract via sign-and-trade (four years, 4.5% raises) that he could get by signing with his new team directly, and can receive a larger Bird contract only if he stays with his previous team.

So sounds like the Bird Rights in a sign and trade scenario are diminished once he becomes a UFA. There really isn't an incentive for him to resign with the Suns after becoming an UFA. Bottom line...no matter who he signs with...they have to have the cap space unless it's the Suns signing him using those rights. So, it seems to be if he insists on not taking the Suns offer and signing the qualifying offer.....he is gone.

The choices boil down to:

• Sign the offer the Suns gave him and all is well.
• Sign the QO and he leaves the Suns with nothing back in return.
• Sign him to a max offer - NOT going to happen
• Sign & Trade for Max offer - Not going to happen
• Sign & Trade for Less than Max Offer - In this scenario I am assuming Bledsoe already made up his mind he doesn't want to play here. This is the only scenario where I could see us getting something in return.

Having flexibility is better than not having it. I'd hope we're not stupid enough to just waste it simply because we weren't able to use it effectively a couple times in the past.
Steve

I don't disagree with this notion but I don't think the Suns get anywhere without trades or the draft. We need assets to trade.

His value will be almost zero in a trade. He will have the right to decline any trade and his salary is so low (in NBA terms) that we could only get a scrub or a rookie in return if he accepted a trade.

He can absolutely veto any trade but if he doesn't want to be here he might consider it to a team that might have cap space coming available. Again, I wouldn't expect to get equal value by any stretch. Maybe a potential guy or someone we could package.

The reality is that unless we resign Bledsoe, chances are pretty slim to none the Suns come out ahead in any scenario.

 

[sunsfan88]

all of this is complete speculation...just like Monroe is going to sign the QO...and hasn't, nor has he apparently told Detroit that according to Van Gundy.

in other words, much ado about nothing.

Its not speculation, a credible reporter isn't gonna put out BS for page hits.

Again, he doesn't have to telll Detroit or Van Gundy or any water boys in Detroit about it. What difference does it make if he signs it now or later?

G

reg Monroe's agent explored sign-and-trade scenarios with at least five other teams, including the Oklahoma City Thunder and Portland Trail Blazers.

Monroe and agent David Falk never sought an offer sheet from another team.

Monroe ultimately was forced to sign for the qualifying offer with the Detroit Pistons and will become an unrestricted free agent next offseason.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...mizing-limited-leverage-with-detroit-pistons/

 

[Mainstreet]

Its not speculation, a credible reporter isn't gonna put out BS for page hits.

Again, he doesn't have to telll Detroit or Van Gundy or any water boys in Detroit about it. What difference does it make if he signs it now or later?

G

I did not find the quote you provided at the link above.

Edit: Actually I found your quote at RealGM.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...th-Thunder-Blazers-At-Least-Three-Other-Clubs

 

[Cheesebeef]

Its not speculation, a credible reporter isn't gonna put out BS for page hits.

Again, he doesn't have to telll Detroit or Van Gundy or any water boys in Detroit about it. What difference does it make if he signs it now or later?

G

you're not serious with your last question, right? The difference is he signs it now is that there's NO CHANCE he gets a better deal and if he doesn't sign it now, he can keep playing chicken at the bargaining table. this isn't that difficult to understand.

 

[Azlen]

Its not speculation, a credible reporter isn't gonna put out BS for page hits.

Again, he doesn't have to telll Detroit or Van Gundy or any water boys in Detroit about it. What difference does it make if he signs it now or later?

G

I would love to play poker with you sometime, you seem to have no idea what bluffing even is. Threatening to sign the QO is a negotiating tactic. Once he signs it he has no chance of getting a bigger offer from Detroit.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think sunsfan88 is going with the quote from RealGM that says Monroe has already signed the qualifying offer.

Monroe ultimately was forced to sign for the qualifying offer with the Detroit Pistons and will become an unrestricted free agent next offseason.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...ee-Other-Clubs

I do not believe this has happened but that is what the article says. It would be strange if Monroe has already signed the Qualifying Offer with time left on the table.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I lifted this from the NBA Cap Rules site:

Under the current CBA a player receives the same contract via sign-and-trade (four years, 4.5% raises) that he could get by signing with his new team directly, and can receive a larger Bird contract only if he stays with his previous team.

So sounds like the Bird Rights in a sign and trade scenario are diminished once he becomes a UFA. There really isn't an incentive for him to resign with the Suns after becoming an UFA. Bottom line...no matter who he signs with...they have to have the cap space unless it's the Suns signing him using those rights. So, it seems to be if he insists on not taking the Suns offer and signing the qualifying offer.....he is gone.

I think you're misinterpreting it. It's my understanding that it works the same way as it would right now, we can sign and trade him and his Bird rights are fully intact. But certain aspects of that are only available if it's a sign and keep contract as opposed to a sign and trade. The RFA/UFA distinction doesn't matter as far as I can tell.

Steve

 

[KloD]

I think you're misinterpreting it. It's my understanding that it works the same way as it would right now, we can sign and trade him and his Bird rights are fully intact. But certain aspects of that are only available if it's a sign and keep contract as opposed to a sign and trade. The RFA/UFA distinction doesn't matter as far as I can tell.

Steve

I may not be following the discussion correct, but if he signs the QO we retain the right right to give him a 5 year contract next summer. If he signs with another next summer or is traded this year, it's max 4 years. If that's what has been said, forgive me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I may not be following the discussion correct, but if he signs the QO we retain the right right to give him a 5 year contract next summer. If he signs with another next summer or is traded this year, it's max 4 years. If that's what has been said, forgive me.

Well, it's not exactly this. I made the point that we were better off waiting until he'd played through his QO then trading him during the season because his Bird rights would still be intact. It's my understanding that we have pretty much the same situation now dealing with an RFA as we would a year from now, dealing with an unrestricted free agent. But in the interim (under the QO), we'd lose a lot of leverage and flexibility if we tried to trade him.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

It's my understanding that we have pretty much the same situation now dealing with an RFA as we would a year from now, dealing with an unrestricted free agent. But in the interim (under the QO), we'd lose a lot of leverage and flexibility if we tried to trade him.

The leverage would already be lost. If the Suns and Bledsoe go forward under the QO next season, the Suns have zero leverage in a trade, whether during the season or in the summer.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The leverage would already be lost. If the Suns and Bledsoe go forward under the QO next season, the Suns have zero leverage in a trade, whether during the season or in the summer.

I think Paul is going to want to put him in a high profile situation. Those kind of teams/cities rarely have 15 million in cap space available. We have more leverage right now then we'll ever have with him. But it seems to me we have the least amount of leverage while he's under the QO.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

But it seems to me we have the least amount of leverage while he's under the QO.

It may seem that way to you, but that doesn't make it true. The Suns will have just as little leverage next summer as they will during the season, if Bledsoe takes the QO. They are tied for the least.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It may seem that way to you, but that doesn't make it true. The Suns will have just as little leverage next summer as they will during the season, if Bledsoe takes the QO. They are tied for the least.

won't we be able to sign him to a longer contract then anyone else? that gives us some pop going into next off-season if he explodes this season and we want him back.

 

[BC867]

won't we be able to sign him to a longer contract then anyone else? that gives us some pop going into next off-season if he explodes this season and we want him back.

And what if his knee pops and explodes? 'Always a factor.