Suns, Eric Bledsoe Far Apart In Talks

[Mainstreet]

It's a non-issue. It's the same as if he were trying to recover from a serious injury (which, incidentally, he is). Plan on him not being there, and if turns out he's available, work him in as best as you can.

Sort of like planning around Bledsoe's track record of being injured.

 

[devilalum]

I wish people here understood what this was about. It's not about Bledsoe not liking Dragic or Phoenix or the Suns or whatever.

He's doing one thing that EVERYBODY here would do if they were in his shoes....he's holding out for the chance that he gets more money.

That's fine except for the fact that him and his agent are the only people on earth that believe he's worth 5/85. So either they're idiots or something else is going on here. The most he could have got from another team is around 4/65 and evidently he and his agent have no interest in sitting down at the table and trying to negotiate a fair deal.

It just doesn't make any sense.

For the most part this thread is an abject lesson on mental masturbation.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's fine except for the fact that him and his agent are the only people on earth that believe he's worth 5/85. So either they're idiots or something else is going on here. The most he could have got from another team is around 4/65 and evidently he and his agent have no interest in sitting down at the table and trying to negotiate a fair deal.

It just doesn't make any sense.

For the most part this thread is an abject lesson on mental masturbation.

I don't think he's worth the full max but this isn't exactly fact. No one but us has the right to pay him that and whether we believe he's worth it or not has never been part of the equation. We've made it clear that we're willing to pay market value and we're not trading him unless we get star value. That means a team has to pay him 63 million AND give us a Love/Carmelo kind of package and he's simply not worth that kind of deal. Also, for reasons that are not our fault, his agent didn't start trying to find a buyer until after most of the money dried up.

If you ignore the injury concerns it's easy to make the case that Bledsoe deserves the full max for what he can do in the future. I think he's a better all around player than three players that went for max dollars this offseason (Irving, Hayward and Parsons) and you can bet he and his agent feel the same way. On our side, we're still on solid ground by refusing to pay more than his market value.

Steve

 

[Suns_fan69]

Also, for reasons that are not our fault, his agent didn't start trying to find a buyer until after most of the money dried up.

This might not even be true. I would guess that as soon as the details of Lowry's deal went public, Paul probably started putting feelers out. At least, that's what he should have done.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This might not even be true. I would guess that as soon as the details of Lowry's deal went public, Paul probably started putting feelers out. At least, that's what he should have done.

You might be right. Most of what we've heard, including the idea that Paul didn't start working hard on a deal until after Lebron signed, are just second hand reports. I don't remember a reputable source putting it out.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

That's fine except for the fact that him and his agent are the only people on earth that believe he's worth 5/85. So either they're idiots or something else is going on here. The most he could have got from another team is around 4/65 and evidently he and his agent have no interest in sitting down at the table and trying to negotiate a fair deal.

It just doesn't make any sense.

I do think that is what is disturbing to most Suns fans. The 5/85 demand seems so far out of reason that you cannot help wondering if he doesn't want to be here at all. If we were still at a stalemate but he was demanding 4/63, I do not think most would be nearly as disturbed.

I love to negotiate, but when someone starts with a number that is way out of reason, I usually just walk away. So, am I mad at Bledsoe, no. I just keep wondering, "what are you thinking man?" Sure, go for all the money he can, but starting where he did is not helping.

 

[Errntknght]

If you look at it in terms of dollars per game, we are paying him 'the max' at 48/4. His history says that he misses 25% of his games with injuries. 16mil over 82 games is $195,122 per game. 75% of 82 games is 61.5 games and if you multiply that by 195k per game it comes out to 12mil per year - just what we offered. No doubt the league (the players union, that is to say) would have a fit if one admitted that was the way they arrived at the figure...

 

[Mainstreet]

If you look at it in terms of dollars per game, we are paying him 'the max' at 48/4. His history says that he misses 25% of his games with injuries. 16mil over 82 games is $195,122 per game. 75% of 82 games is 61.5 games and if you multiply that by 195k per game it comes out to 12mil per year - just what we offered. No doubt the league (the players union, that is to say) would have a fit if one admitted that was the way they arrived at the figure...

So what is the story on Kyle Lowry who signed with Toronto for 4 years at 48 million?

 

[splitsecond]

So what is the story on Kyle Lowry who signed with Toronto for 4 years at 48 million?

He isn't Joe Johnson part 2. Bledsoe clearly cares little about winning and more about money and the "lifestyle" just like JJ when he forced his way out and to Hotlanta.


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[AzStevenCal]

He isn't Joe Johnson part 2. Bledsoe clearly cares little about winning and more about money and the "lifestyle" just like JJ when he forced his way out and to Hotlanta.

It's his job, of course he cares about the money. And we're seeing a shift in the NBA right now. I think the days of taking less to help build a team are in the past. There is a lot of backlash right now from the Sterling comments and agents and the players union have both been playing it up. Get your money, don't give it to the owners is the message I keep coming across.

Steve

 

[splitsecond]

It's his job, of course he cares about the money. And we're seeing a shift in the NBA right now. I think the days of taking less to help build a team are in the past. There is a lot of backlash right now from the Sterling comments and agents and the players union have both been playing it up. Get your money, don't give it to the owners is the message I keep coming across.

Steve

I'm not sure this is just about money though. By all accounts NO ONE is willing to pay him what he is asking. He wants to go to a major market and build a brand. He doesn't care about winning over his "brand". This is what happens when you have a street punk hustler as an agent.


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[AzStevenCal]

I'm not sure this is just about money though. By all accounts NO ONE is willing to pay him what he is asking. He wants to go to a major market and build a brand. He doesn't care about winning over his "brand". This is what happens when you have a street punk hustler as an agent.


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Maybe you're right but I don't think that's quite it (although I agree on the agent). But remember, no one is willing to pay him what he's asking IN ADDITION to giving us what we're asking. It isn't simply salary that's involved. I'm to the point though where I'd be fine with trading Bledsoe if we got decent value.

I still think he is a possible big time star in the making but the question marks are piling up. Does he want to be the "man". If we sign him will it be 4 years with a player that feels disrespected? Will he improve or is this all he'll ever be? Can he stay healthy? Will he build up endurance so we can use him for more than 30 minutes a game? And so on.

If we can get some picks and a young big man, I say move him. I just don't want to see us trade him for average pieces. Let him sign the QO and then walk if that's all we can get.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

He isn't Joe Johnson part 2. Bledsoe clearly cares little about winning and more about money and the "lifestyle" just like JJ when he forced his way out and to Hotlanta.


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Perhaps I was not clear. I was asking Errntknght how Toronto computed Kyle Lowry's contract and arrived at the same figure the Suns offered Bledsoe, 48 million over 4 years. Both are point guards. I don't think the mathematics were that detailed for either player. It was just the market rate.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not sure this is just about money though. By all accounts NO ONE is willing to pay him what he is asking. He wants to go to a major market and build a brand. He doesn't care about winning over his "brand". This is what happens when you have a street punk hustler as an agent.


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This is total speculation. Where, anywhere, has Bledsoe or anyone close to him said he wants a major market, or even out of Phoenix?

 

[Superbone]

It's ALL about the money.

 

[BC867]

This is total speculation. Where, anywhere, has Bledsoe or anyone close to him said he wants a major market, or even out of Phoenix?

Where, anywhere, has Bledsoe or anyone close to him said he wants to stay in Phoenix?

That's a wash. Not a (+). Not a (-). A neutral.

Or to put it another way, a lack of determination. That is a (-).

 

[JCSunsfan]

Where, anywhere, has Bledsoe or anyone close to him said he wants to stay in Phoenix?

That's a wash. Not a (+). Not a (-). A neutral.

Or to put it another way, a lack of determination. That is a (-).

HOgwash. Its just negotiating and keeping his options open. Why in the world would he say "I love Phoenix and I want to stay here" if he is trying to draw offers from other teams? That would be as foolish as the Suns negotiating against themselves. I am frustrated with his overvaluation of himself, but I have no problem with him not professing love for Phoenix when he is a free agent and on the market.

He has not said anything about wanting to go to a big market. THAT is just speculation.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Where, anywhere, has Bledsoe or anyone close to him said he wants to stay in Phoenix?

That's a wash. Not a (+). Not a (-). A neutral.

Or to put it another way, a lack of determination. That is a (-).

How many athletes say it's not about the money and I love this place - the day before they run for the cash elsewhere? I couldn't care less if he avowed publicly his love for the city of Phoenix or if he stayed true to his nature and kept his mouth shut. He keeps his mouth shut and that's just fine with me. And it seems to me it ought to be fine with everyone else here who repeatedly jumped on Gortat every time he opened his mouth.

BTW, I never once told any of my employers that I wanted to stay. I stayed until I left and unlike Bledsoe, I never keep my mouth shut.

Steve

 

[Phoenix219]

I think the REAL issue here is that there has been no communication from the Bledsoe camp to the Suns FO in over SIX MONTHS. LEBRON has communicated with us more through that one dumb "break bread" comment then anyone involved with Eric Bledsoe. That is so absolutely ridiculous and beyond unprofessional that I have no problem speculating the intent behind everything. I agree with 'bone, that it is ALL about the money... as in, it will take ALL the money to get him to stay in Phoenix. I think he KNOWS he is over valuing himself, but hey, if we're willing to REALLY pay it... sure, he'll stay here. I think the core issue *underneath* that is that he DOES NOT WANT TO BE HERE - that what it would take to keep him here is so ridiculous - that would be his compensation for staying in this crappy place he doesn't like. If he doesn't get the money, he wants to be someplace other then here. If he isn't getting top dollar, he wants to play somewhere he chooses to be, hence the QO.

 

[Errntknght]

I still think its all Cleveland's fault for overpaying Irving. You can certainly make a case that, healthy, Bled is better than Kyrie. But Cleveland wanted to max Irving - if you've got the highest paid young PG you must have the best one, right? It riminds me of the Suns overpaying Marion many long years ago...

 

[Hoop Head]

If Bledsoe would have been had he been willing to sit down and negotiate rather than draw the line at the max or nothing I'd be interested in him coming back. His attitude has been ridiculous and basically saying he doesn't want to be here unless he is paid ridiculous amount of money, far more than his worth.

If he negotiated with the Suns from the start he may have gotten close to a 4 year max that another team could offer, which was like 4/64 or something close. Granted that is 16 million higher than the Suns have reportedly offered but his idea of "negotiating" has been stay silent, let his agent ask for the max and refuse to listen anything less than that. According to some reports last off season he requested the max then, even though he was truly unproven at that point which should have been a big red flag. Unfortunately he wasn't healthy enough for stretches this season to showcase him and send him somewhere for value so we could have avoided this whole ordeal this offseason. He seems driven by money rather than wins which won't be good for chemistry if/when the Suns go in a slump.

I also suspect he'll end up being a coach killer in a different situation also, similar to Iverson, Deron Williams, and many others. It hasn't been said by him but it's been suggested and reported through various sources and insiders this free agency that he wants to be THE point guard on a team that is more of a traditional halfcourt team, which he won't get here so long as Dragic and Hornacek are here and Horny is running a 2 PG fastbreak/uptempo system.

After this stalemate I don't want the Suns to bring him back, sure he personally hasn't said anything other than the Suns are using restricted free agency against him, which I think is BS and in a way shows he doesn't fully understand free agency or proper negotiating. What has been said by his reps and been said by various insiders it seems he has a lot of maturing to do and I doubt he does that here. Sure he has a lot of natural talent and does apply it regularly, unlike someone like Beasley, but I worry he'll end up like a DeMarcus Cousins type player who is immensely talented but is a headcase and may not be worth the trouble in the long run. If he signs with the Suns I hope it's no more than the 4/48 that's been reported, maybe 4/52 for him to save a little face. The only reason I'd want that is because he is more of an asset on that contract in a trade than he would be in a sign and trade or under the qualifying offer. I'd hope the Suns tried to move him sooner rather than later also.

 

[SirStefan32]

I also suspect he'll end up being a coach killer in a different situation also, similar to Iverson, Deron Williams, and many others. It hasn't been said by him but it's been suggested and reported through various sources and insiders this free agency that he wants to be THE point guard on a team that is more of a traditional halfcourt team, which he won't get here so long as Dragic and Hornacek are here and Horny is running a 2 PG fastbreak/uptempo system.

I am not a fan of Bledsoe and I don't want him back (even if we trade him for nothing) but I have seen no sources reporting that. Would you be so kind as to show us where that's been reported?

 

[leclerc]

I doubt Bledsoe could get all star mvp. Not the previous year. Maybe never.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I doubt Bledsoe could get all star mvp. Not the previous year. Maybe never.

Me too. He's not a great individual offensive player. He's not bad but he's far from great. Now, if they ever decide to play defense in the All Star games he might stand a chance.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

The deulsion that Bledsoe is at Irving's level is not shared by anyone outside of Bledsoe, his agent, and this board.