Suns @ Hawks Game Thread

slinslin

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Unfortunatelly, Amare didnt dominate today anybody but Marvin Williams, a small forward. The Suns played big all night to have that matchup and Amare still could only put up 9/21 from the field (plus 3 turnovers) with those missed FTs, not that impressive.

His offensive rebounding was very good, though that Lopez-Amare front court is god awful getting defensive rebounds.

What game did you watch? Even Hubie noted that the Hawks were very quick to double team Amare.

Not only that but he was guarded by Josh Smith a lot, guess what this guy is one of the leading shotblockers in the league and in consideration for DPOY.

The Suns didnt play big to get that matchup. The Suns had to play big because the Hawks are one of the top 3 scoring teams in the paint in the entire NBA. Plus Horford was killing Frye and Frye did absolutely nothing once again.

Channing Frye is the softest big man in the entire league, he even refused to post up Mike Bibby. That is why Robin Lopez played a lot because Frye's shooting wasn't on target and the Hawks are one of the toughest teams in the paint that doesn't mix well with playing the softest big man in the league against them.
 
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jagu

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You must be kidding. Amare was the only reason we were in the game. Nash reverted to his normal behavior to start the 3rd plus Frye's bad defense, this gave the Hawks the lead. Then it's only Amare causing havoc in Hawks paint to give us a chance to stay in the game and to get a late game 4 pt lead. Yet, we ignored him for 2-3 min stretch to lose that lead, only to get back up on top when he scored for us again. Remember, Atlanta is one of the best teams in NBA playing at home! Yet, you seemed to see his imperfections only.

TD missed a lot more critical FTs than Amare.

Anyway my point is Amare is going to get way too much money for being a non-championship caliber ball player. His basketball IQ is about as good as nil. If you guys want to defend him , its your option. I personally will stay away from doing that because I know he is nothing but a scorer who won't get you a ring.
 

cly2tw

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Unfortunatelly, Amare didnt dominate today anybody but Marvin Williams, a small forward. The Suns played big all night to have that matchup and Amare still could only put up 9/21 from the field (plus 3 turnovers) with those missed FTs, not that impressive.

His offensive rebounding was very good, though that Lopez-Amare front court is god awful getting defensive rebounds.

I don't know what you saw. He drew the entire attention of their frontline all night and got a couple shots blocked. But he was the only consistent scorer for us in the 2nd half, and we almost won the game against a tough opponent. Yet, all you have is to complain about our best impact player in tonight's game?:mad:
 

Ciani

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What game did you watch? Even Hubie noted that the Hawks were very quick to double team Amare.

Not only that but he was guarded by Josh Smith a lot, guess what this guy is one of the leading shotblockers in the league and in consideration for DPOY.

Yeah, that's why Amare got 21 shots, because he was double teamed. Granted, he got doubled here and there but the Hawks did it only occassionally. And Josh Smith is also smaller and lighter than Amare, shouldn't be a problem to post him up for STAT.

I'm not saying that he lost the game for the Suns, and you are right that Frye did suck really bad, I just don't agree that Amare dominated.
 

jagu

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I don't know what you saw. He drew the entire attention of their frontline all night and got a couple shots blocked. But he was the only consistent scorer for us in the 2nd half, and we almost won the game against a tough opponent. Yet, all you have is to complain about our best impact player in tonight's game?:mad:

Yawwn...Basketball is a team game. Amare is a great scorer but he can't pass for his life, can't defend to save a life, and he isn't a clutch player. He isn't a guy who will say ," give me the ball in the last few seconds I'll win the game for you." He has great dunks and some good games but if your going to give him millions its better to throw it at someone worth it. This guy isn't worth it. It's all about the ring folks so if you wanna see some run and gun regular season games and early exits in the playoffs by all means reink Amare.
 

slinslin

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Yes he did, 20/9 in the second half when the team needed him badly is considered dominating as far as I am concerned.

Smith gives up almost nothing to Amare height wise and strength wise, plus he is likely the second most athletic player in the league.

There is a reason people are suggesting him for DPOY.

And I don't know what your argument is about putting up 21 shots. That is an indication of not being double teamed? lol!
 

slinslin

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Yawwn...Basketball is a team game. Amare is a great scorer but he can't pass for his life, can't defend to save a life, and he isn't a clutch player. He isn't a guy who will say ," give me the ball in the last few seconds I'll win the game for you." He has great dunks and some good games but if your going to give him millions its better to throw it at someone worth it. This guy isn't worth it. It's all about the ring folks so if you wanna see some run and gun regular season games and early exits in the playoffs by all means reink Amare.

What does run and gun have to do with Amare? This guy has shown his ability to play in any system.

If you want to find reasons why we play run and gun, you have to look at Steve Nash and nobody else.

Your claims are so ridiculous. We are talking about a PF, they are not known to dribble the ball at the end of the game and make isolation plays to win the game. We are not talking about Kobe Bryant here who can get the ball on the perimeter and has the green light to take whatever shot he wants. Even on the Spurs the players who made the big plays at the end of games were more often Parker and Ginobili rather than Duncan.

Besides in this game it was ALL Amare that put us into a position to win this game, 1 missed free throw or not.

The Suns put the ball in Nashs hand at the end of games, how can you judge Amare on that?

The only reason not to resign Amare to a max contract are health concerns, nothing else. This guy is known for taking his game to another level come playoff time too.
 
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Ciani

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I don't know what you saw. He drew the entire attention of their frontline all night and got a couple shots blocked. But he was the only consistent scorer for us in the 2nd half, and we almost won the game against a tough opponent. Yet, all you have is to complain about our best impact player in tonight's game?:mad:

True, that's a little bit unfair. :)
But the biggest question now is what to do with Amare, that's why he gets the most critics.

The worst thing tonight was the defensive rebounding (as usual), Suns played very good D for once and still couldn't capitalize.
 

slinslin

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Trade Richardson and Barbosa for TMac, that is the only thing that makes sense.

You can stay somewhat competitive with TMac as I am not sure he will provide much less than what JRich does for 40 games and then in the offseason you have the tiny chance to sign 2 max free agents.

We can't be sure if it is all that attractive to come to Phoenix to play with Nash but at least in theory you could sign 2 of Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, Boozer or JJ.

Resign TMac to a small contract like Grant Hill and some other veterans and you would have a competetive roster.
 
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Ronin

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Tmac?
Good lord i'll excause myself from this thread.
 

slinslin

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TMac is a 23 Million expiring contract which would allow us to sign a max player and keep Amare or sign 2 max players.
 

Ciani

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Smith gives up almost nothing to Amare height wise and strength wise, plus he is likely the second most athletic player in the league.

There is a reason people are suggesting him for DPOY.

He is a good defender but better power forwards can post him up effectively. That's Amare's big weakness.

And I don't know what your argument is about putting up 21 shots. That is an indication of not being double teamed? lol!

I wonder whats funny in that. Try watching a game when a big man gets double teamed all night. The Suns did that to Howard and he got 1 FG attempt. You can get to the line, but not shoot a lot when a double team is executed well.
 

krazyasiankid

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Anyway my point is Amare is going to get way too much money for being a non-championship caliber ball player. His basketball IQ is about as good as nil. If you guys want to defend him , its your option. I personally will stay away from doing that because I know he is nothing but a scorer who won't get you a ring.

You gotta be fking kidding me. Amare played like a great player tonight, and all you want to do is criticise him. Give the man a break. He had a great game, even though we didnt win, you gotta give him some credit for trying to lift his team.
 

krazyasiankid

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TMac is a 23 Million expiring contract which would allow us to sign a max player and keep Amare or sign 2 max players.

McGrady's value to Houston is nil at the moment. So they'll jump to trading him for J-Rich and Barbs. Hopefully, we can get a pick or Landry outta Houston. But I doubt they'll give up Landry. :D
 

cly2tw

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Trade Richardson and Barbosa for TMac, that is the only thing that makes sense.

You can stay somewhat competitive with TMac as I am not sure he will provide much less than what JRich does for 40 games and then in the offseason you have the tiny chance to sign 2 max free agents.

We can't be sure if it is all that attractive to come to Phoenix to play with Nash but at least in theory you could sign 2 of Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, Boozer or JJ.

Resign TMac to a small contract like Grant Hill and some other veterans and you would have a competetive roster.

Well, Rox has no reason to take either JRich or LB, not to mention they both have one year left on contract.
 

jagu

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You gotta be fking kidding me. Amare played like a great player tonight, and all you want to do is criticise him. Give the man a break. He had a great game, even though we didnt win, you gotta give him some credit for trying to lift his team.

I won't base my opinions on Amare over one game. Overall after watching him play with the Suns for a long time now, he hasn't grown mentally. He still makes rookie mistakes, has crazy turnovers and just isn't what I want in a player who is going to take up a lot of cap space. He had a good game tonight.
 

jagu

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What does run and gun have to do with Amare? This guy has shown his ability to play in any system.

If you want to find reasons why we play run and gun, you have to look at Steve Nash and nobody else.

Your claims are so ridiculous. We are talking about a PF, they are not known to dribble the ball at the end of the game and make isolation plays to win the game. We are not talking about Kobe Bryant here who can get the ball on the perimeter and has the green light to take whatever shot he wants. Even on the Spurs the players who made the big plays at the end of games were more often Parker and Ginobili rather than Duncan.

Besides in this game it was ALL Amare that put us into a position to win this game, 1 missed free throw or not.

The Suns put the ball in Nashs hand at the end of games, how can you judge Amare on that?

The only reason not to resign Amare to a max contract are health concerns, nothing else. This guy is known for taking his game to another level come playoff time too.

What does run and gun have to do with Amare? This guy has shown his ability to play in any system.

If you want to find reasons why we play run and gun, you have to look at Steve Nash and nobody else.

Your claims are so ridiculous. We are talking about a PF, they are not known to dribble the ball at the end of the game and make isolation plays to win the game. We are not talking about Kobe Bryant here who can get the ball on the perimeter and has the green light to take whatever shot he wants. Even on the Spurs the players who made the big plays at the end of games were more often Parker and Ginobili rather than Duncan.

Besides in this game it was ALL Amare that put us into a position to win this game, 1 missed free throw or not.

The Suns put the ball in Nashs hand at the end of games, how can you judge Amare on that?

The only reason not to resign Amare to a max contract are health concerns, nothing else. This guy is known for taking his game to another level come playoff time too.


Amare can play in any system? He sure didn't look comfy playing with Shaq last year so your first point is fail.

Your Point: PF are not known to dribble the ball and make isolation plays.

Did I say they were supposed to? If they put the ball in Amare's hands at the end of the game he's more likely to turn it over than actually make a game winner. (Case in point the charge in the playoffs against the Spurs when he was wide open 5 feet away and preferred to run over the player and try to dunk it). Also the "not known part" is not the perfect statement for a player who is far more gifted than most PF's in the league. Considering his superior athletic advantage over most PF's and Centers for that matter isolating Amare and letting him go for a high percentage shot would be the wisest option for the Suns. Of course that is without including player intelligence which would make him a much lower option.

"Even on the Spurs the players who made the big plays at the end of games were more often Parker and Ginobili rather than Duncan." - Duncan three pointer to win the game in the playoffs still haunts my dreams and his schooling of Amare which happens on a yearly basis. Also Parker burns the Suns because they pick Nash with Duncan and Amare is never in a position to actually guard Parker or any point for that matter.

My hate on Amare is not based after one freethrow, he is a great scorer and he can rebound well if he actually tried. He makes the worst fouls that you can ever imagine for a guy whose been in the league for a while now. Seriously how many times have you seen him reach in to try and steal a ball for no reason and get a foul. The bottom line is he is dismal defensively, does not read offenses well and is always on the wrong side of the defensive play and with Frye and Amare its heaven for inside scorers. (I do blame Pringles for the lack of developing of Amare into a defensive player).

"The only reason not to resign Amare to a max contract are health concerns, nothing else. This guy is known for taking his game to another level come playoff time too" - In my opinion, health concerns is second only to the defensive concerns I have with Amare. He is just too stupid a player for me to give max contracts to. As a big in the league you need to learn interior defense as well as guarding the pick and roll, both of which Amare is pathetic at. If he scores points he also gives up a ton inside. I hope this never happens, signing Amare to a max contract would be the biggest mistake the Suns can make.

"Your claims are so ridiculous." - If you say so. I'll politely disagree and I think other Suns fans will understand my position.If the Suns just wanted to play good regular season ball and have fun then yes resign him. If they want to be a legit contender then lose him.
 

slinslin

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Amare was playing great with Shaq last year before he got injured.

Amare also played great the season before they signed Nash and in his rookie season, when the Suns were a halfcourt team.
 

jagu

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Amare was playing great with Shaq last year before he got injured.

Amare also played great the season before they signed Nash and in his rookie season, when the Suns were a halfcourt team.

For all the love you have for Amare, you do know that his interior defense is a major thorn in the side of the Phoenix Suns right? With him and Frye, a high school team can drop 90 on the Suns. I do sound like a true Amare hater yea, but I was a big Amare fan when they drafted him and I thought once D'Antoni left he'd get better and smarter. He's not. He's the same Amare with less athleticism.
 
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slinslin

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I do know that he is not a good defender, still the only Suns big man who can somewhat hold his own defensively at least.

The Suns have much bigger problems than Amare's defense. For instance lousy perimeter defense that allows too much penetration and puts a lot of pressure on our big men who are already undersized because we are a small ball gimmick team.
Also our team, like Hubie noted, uses a lot of energy offensively which makes it harder to defend. Having our bigs race down the court in our run and gun style does the rest.

If there were no health issues it would be a given that the Suns have to try and resign Amare, because despite all his short-commings Amare still easily is a top5-7 big men in the league and has a few years ahead of him before his prime still.

He hasn't improved you say? Well I see him using nice jump hooks all season long and some other post moves. It is hard to say because the Suns are what they are and there is not much opportunity to show off anything else.
For arguments sake check how many shots Frye takes for example, you can't really assess Amare's improvement because he doesn't get the touches offensively because we are still that run and gun team.

Afterall they are still a running team and don't work in the halfcourt.
 
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Chaplin

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Let's face it, Amare was MUCH better than Channing Frye on interior defense tonight. Al Horford made shot after shot after shot from the SAME SPOT on the floor and Channing never closed out on him! I couldn't believe my eyes after the 3rd shot went in.
 

elindholm

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Al Horford made shot after shot after shot from the SAME SPOT on the floor and Channing never closed out on him! I couldn't believe my eyes after the 3rd shot went in.

How about after the 4th, or 5th, or 8th? Unbelievable.

But then again, the Suns also let Bibby shoot four three-pointers from the exact same spot -- seriously, it can't have been more than 12 inches difference between the four attempts. He made two of them.
 

Yuma

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Up by 4 with 10 seconds to go. A team has to get lucky to win at that point. Phoenix had some key mistakes, and Atlanta did everything right in those last ten seconds. It ahppens in the NBA. It happens...
 

krazyasiankid

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Suddenly the Amare for Jamal Crawford and Josh Smith trade is looking pretty good now hey.
 

Sovereignz

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I just can't understand why Nash went flying in from east Guam to crash into Hill when Grant had what looked to be an easy rebound on that free throw. Stupid to lose a game on something like that.
 

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