joshstmarie
Hall of Famer
like becoming a free agent right?
Suns intend to offer Steve Nash multiyear deal
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like becoming a free agent right?
Where would that get him? More money? If Grant was about getting more money he never would have picked the Suns to begin with. He had better offers on the table. Grant wanted a ring had heard great things about the training staff.
Because staying with this core that has gotten worse 2 years running is so smart. Grant wants the team to stay together because he knows his chances are better staying with the team. Grant is very smart. The uses for an aging SF Vet diminish if your team is in rebuilding mode and he knows it.
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Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
ah, but there you are wrong. we ARE like the kings, it's just the kings at the end of their bibby/vlade/webber run . . . an old team that thinks they still have it, but in reality don't have squat.
1. This core wasn't here two years ago - just Nash and Barbosa. We don't even know how the core would perform playing uptempo again with Amare because Amare has been injured.
2. We shouldn't completely stay with the core, but neither should we completely blow it up. I'll be happy if we just get a center who can defend the pick and roll to replace Shaq and a wing defender to replace JRich. (I know you like JRich, but if I have to see him leave someone wide open from 3 one more time...)
Nash, Amare and Shaq are the core. I am including Shaq because he was here for the playoff run last year. Also, Amare was here for the first clips drubbing post system change. There are still 3 constants that I have a problem with. Nash, Amare & this system. If those don't change neither will the defensive play of this team. Defense has been a constant theme since the D'Antoni system was installed.
Look up the defensive numbers post system change. I did on another thread. D'Antoni system back...defense worse.
You are grossly exaggerating the impact of Shaq's lack of pick and roll defense. One it's not like most teams use that as bread and butter (there is only a handful of teams that even do it on a regular basis). Two, thanks to Shaq the suns only give up on average 30.5 points in the paint which is 4th best in the NBA (only behind San Antonio, Orlando and Boston). The Suns ranked near the bottom of the league pre-Shaq. Shaq never has been and never will be the primary reason this team can't play defense.
It's our perimeter. We rank 2nd worst in the NBA at defending the jump shot and 3rd worst in the NBA at defending the 3 in regards to PPG. I like JRich but never said he was a great defender. Only that there was not really any drop off from Bell. You will get no argument from me in regards to this teams perimeter play. It's been horrible all the way around. If any one part of this team defense has been good, it's been in the paint and that is thanks to Shaq.
Now factor in we have the most turnover prone PG in the NBA and one of the worst teams in turnovers in general that leads to easy buckets. Shaq is on the bottom of the list when it comes to this teams defensive issues. In fact, Grant Hill and Shaq have been the bright spots in that regard.
Even if I thought retooling versus rebuilding would help (which I don't), my first priorty would be to get rid of Nash then work my way down the line. I guarantee you if this team retools and gets rid of Shaq without getting a legit center in return, this teams defensive woes will continue and get worse in the paint.
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elindholm
edited for content
Hill will be a free agent no matter what. What he says has zero influence on his impending free agency. I don't even understand what point you're trying to make, and I doubt you do either.
joshstmarie
Hall of Famer
so because you dont understand the point im trying to make must mean i dont either..that makes sense. my point is youre saying hill isnt letting out what he really thinks about the team because hes too afraid to speak out or "insert reason here". im saying, the dude is going to be a free agent anyways and probably... REALLY thinks the suns are only a few tweaks away from being a formidable playoff team.
elindholm
edited for content
Impending free agency does not make someone of Hill's smarts into a fool. Hill is savvy enough to know where the Suns are. He's saying the team is close because that's what a supportive veteran is supposed to say.
Or maybe JRich here.. defense worse. Or Amare out... defense worse. (While he's not a good defender, as the announcers pointed out a few days ago, him being out means we have less size and less shot blocking) I really hate stat battling because there are always too many variables to consider and you can use stats to back up almost any point.
Also you say that defensive play won't change as long as we have Nash, Amare, & this system, but yet it has. It's gotten considerably worse in the past two years. In 07, even though it wasn't great, it was adequate enough for us to be one of the top teams in the league. (Perhaps even a championship team if it wasn't for those suspensions)
Now, isn't this a little dishonest? Nash was the most turnover prone PG under Porter, but he clearly isn't right now. In fact, he hasn't been in the top 5 since February. Turnovers are no longer a big problem for Nash or the team.
I never denied we have gotten worse. I have denied that it is because of interior play. That is the only place it has improved.
How so?
Overall Guards (Qualified) - Total Turnovers
Wade (#1) - 268
Nash (#2) - 236
Point Guards (Qualified) - Total Turnovers
Nash (#1) - 236
Williams (#2) - 212
http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...litScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=
He also averaged 3 turnovers per game in the month of March which is slightly below his 3.42 for the season. So, yes he has improved but it's still one of the worst in the NBA as recently as March.
Oh and lets not forget he was a league leader last year as well in that stat and finished at 3.64 per game under D'Antoni and the old system.
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mojorizen7
ASFN Addict
No, it wasn't adequate, it was bad....its still bad. The prolific offense was the lone reason for the SUNS success in the DA era.
I would argue that the defense since DA left only appears worse....it's been further exposed IMO.
I won't throw out stats either, good defense starts on the ball and ends at the rim.
This team cannot become a good defensive team with Nash @ the point.
I'm not sure if thats your contention but it should be.
jandaman
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But letting Nash's man to dominate the offensive load SHOULD be the case.
Under zone, the 4 other Suns players must be able to rotate AND be good positional defenders (high IQ defenders) to prevent Nash's man (Poing guard) to penetrate then find cutting players (down post) or spot up shooters (corners/elbows).... Having Stoudemire leave off his area/zone to help Nash then have Nash's man dish to the low post man (where Stoudemire should be) for an easy 2.... rinse and repeat... is NOT what you want.
You want a Parker or a Paul or Deron to drive into the lane, with Nash side by side... putting up a wild, tough shot/tear drop..... on Nash.... all game long or most of the game... would be ideal... obviously other coach will adjust... but basically making the point guard "take away" from his team by dominating the offensive output.
Even in zone your still responsible to keep the guy in front of you. The ideal defense is in fact not stay with your man side by side. The ideal defense would be to never allow your man to blow by you and penetrate. When that happens you force your team into a position where they have to rotate out to the open shooter. That's not what you want even in zone.
There is a reason this team is 2nd worst at defending the jump shot and 3rd worst at defending the 3. I guarantee if we had shut down defenders bad rotations would happen alot less.
Errntknght
Registered User
I certainly didn't hear anything in Hill's interview that sounded like he was saying what he thought people wanted to hear. He didn't hem or haw or play up the fact that he was a FA, like he was playing angles. Seemed quite straightfoward to me. But, it is right after a time when he playing his heart out for the team - and will most likely will continue to do - so he hasn't mentally distanced himself from the team. By July that could happen a bit and if the Suns make him an insulting offer he might change his mind about coming back. Or maybe they make some moves in the direction of blowing the team up instead of trying to improve for next year.
I don't think he was blowing smoke in his evaluation of the team either. I don't necessarily agree with him but its not hard to see his point about the Suns being close to the Denver, Portland etc. - we did undergo a coaching change mid year which usually screws things up a bit - and still finished pretty close. Its not a big stretch to imagine with Gentry for the full year we'd have made it into the playoffs - he didn't say that but I suspect he was thinking it.
Personally, I'm not in favor of trying it one more time with a tweak to this crew. The way we played against Dallas and folded late in the Utah game tells me this group is mentally weak - in addition to being old and defenseless. Thats too much going against it. Heck, the best argument for not blowing the team up is that we aren't going to get diddly in return for whoever we give up. Probably the best way to blow it up is to pretend we're not and hoping that we can squeeze something out of Amare, Shaq, JRich and Nash at the trade deadline.
I don't think he was blowing smoke in his evaluation of the team either. I don't necessarily agree with him but its not hard to see his point about the Suns being close to the Denver, Portland etc. - we did undergo a coaching change mid year which usually screws things up a bit - and still finished pretty close. Its not a big stretch to imagine with Gentry for the full year we'd have made it into the playoffs - he didn't say that but I suspect he was thinking it.
Personally, I'm not in favor of trying it one more time with a tweak to this crew. The way we played against Dallas and folded late in the Utah game tells me this group is mentally weak - in addition to being old and defenseless. Thats too much going against it. Heck, the best argument for not blowing the team up is that we aren't going to get diddly in return for whoever we give up. Probably the best way to blow it up is to pretend we're not and hoping that we can squeeze something out of Amare, Shaq, JRich and Nash at the trade deadline.
cly2tw
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I believe Hill would want to stay given a reasonable contract if the team is competitive enough. This will be the case if we trade Nash to Portland for say Batum/Blake/Rodriguez without further stupid, pure salary dump trades.
mojorizen7
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This franchise has no idea what road to take, nor how to get there once they finally decide.
CaptainInsano
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I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Grant Hill went back to the Orlando Magic after our disasters of the last 2 seasons happend.
Portland plays far too slow for Nash to be that effective. Right now according to Hollinger's stats they're the slowest paced team in the league.
Unless they're going to increase their pace to at least the top 15 in the league, probably the top 10 in pace, Nash will be of limited effectiveness for Portland. So I just don't see this trade making sense for Portland.
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slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed with us regardless of what we do in the offseason and retires as a Sun.
YouJustGotSUNSD
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They HATE him there. He get's boo'ed everytime he touches the ball. I would be VERY surprised.
Finally found Steve Nash's replacement. Looks like a lottery pick for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIqVvRh_cEY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIqVvRh_cEY&feature=related
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Awesome. I just hope he does not wear out his body before he hopefully makes it to the NBA some day.
slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
I'd be happy with this guy, he would be perfect for Phoenix and Phoenix would be perfect for him. Rig it Stern.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSBLKrZCkeU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSBLKrZCkeU
cly2tw
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Wow. this guys sure has the court vision and passing of a Nash or Stockton. He can't do all these stuff in NBA since the defense is a lot better here. But with his superior athleticm and defense, he can be better than both Rubio, Rose, Paul and Williams will fight for the best PG honor for the next 10 years to come!
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